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  #25  
Old 08-15-2013, 08:26 PM
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Re: 2014 GC Limited Backing Up Steep Hill

I agree and hope that there is a correctable problem and the TCM is not programed to perform this way. Look for pics and video this weekend. i appreciate the knowlege base that is available at Jeep Garage.
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  #26  
Old 10-09-2013, 09:00 PM
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Re: 2014 GC Limited Backing Up Steep Hill

Sorry, I have been away for a while, busy times...
I have done some more research and testing on my hill and found that the engine won't rev past 2000 RPM when the vehicle stops moving on the hill.
I also measured the angle of the slope and it varies from 19 deg to 23 deg. which is roughly a 50 percent slope. This is steep but should not be beyond the capabilties of a jeep or any decent all wheel drive for that matter.

the photo shows the relative "steepness" I tried to upload video but no luck.

I am thinking that the TCM is limiting torque by maxing out the engine RPM
There is a recall coming up on the control modules cleaning up some nagging problems. Does anyone know the details? Perhaps the torque limit may get tweeked too.

As the engine has broken in it will just bearly clear the 19deg side of the slope but not the steep side.
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  #27  
Old 10-09-2013, 09:59 PM
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Re: 2014 GC Limited Backing Up Steep Hill

Wow, if you can't reverse up that driveway, something is most definitely wrong with your vehicle.
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  #28  
Old 10-09-2013, 10:20 PM
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Re: 2014 GC Limited Backing Up Steep Hill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audifirst View Post
Sorry, I have been away for a while, busy times...
I have done some more research and testing on my hill and found that the engine won't rev past 2000 RPM when the vehicle stops moving on the hill.
I also measured the angle of the slope and it varies from 19 deg to 23 deg. which is roughly a 50 percent slope. This is steep but should not be beyond the capabilties of a jeep or any decent all wheel drive for that matter.

the photo shows the relative "steepness" I tried to upload video but no luck.

I am thinking that the TCM is limiting torque by maxing out the engine RPM
There is a recall coming up on the control modules cleaning up some nagging problems. Does anyone know the details? Perhaps the torque limit may get tweeked too.

As the engine has broken in it will just bearly clear the 19deg side of the slope but not the steep side.
The ZF transmission has a 3.30 reverse gear ratio, or about the same as second gear. Most reverse gear sets are designed not as strong as forward gears, so there definitely can be some limiting in play here. Remember, the 3.6L has the sorry to say "weak" version of the ZF.

What happens if you get a decent "rolling start" speed before the hill starts. Does it lose momentum really fast?
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  #29  
Old 10-10-2013, 12:20 AM
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Re: 2014 GC Limited Backing Up Steep Hill

Sometimes I have to back my 4500LB boat up a fairly steep hill at our lake house. Unpaved. I have the V6 as well, I hope this isn't a problem. I have not tried yet. I guess 4LO is always an option. But I never had too use 4LO with my 2002 4.0L, but I did have to use Part Time 4WD.

Strange.
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  #30  
Old 10-10-2013, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mswlogo View Post
Sometimes I have to back my 4500LB boat up a fairly steep hill at our lake house. Unpaved. I have the V6 as well, I hope this isn't a problem. I have not tried yet. I guess 4LO is always an option. But I never had too use 4LO with my 2002 4.0L, but I did have to use Part Time 4WD.

Strange.
USE LO RANGE! Why strain your tranny by slipping the torque converter, overheating the fluid, and stressing everything? It is not good for any tranny to put it in that situation.

Would you hook 4500 lb to the bumper of a 4500 lb vehicle and try to start out in 2nd gear...much less do that on a 50% grade? That's what backing up that hill pushing your boat is like.

Make it easy on your GC and avoid damage. Lo range is the right thing to do. Perhaps your 4.0 had a lower (higher ratio) reverse gear.

bd
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  #31  
Old 10-10-2013, 01:06 AM
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Re: 2014 GC Limited Backing Up Steep Hill

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Originally Posted by ExcursionDiesel View Post
USE IT! Why strain your tranny by slipping the torque converter, overheating the fluid, and stressing everything? It is not good for any tranny to put it in that situation.

Make it easy on your GC and avoid damage. Its the right thing to do. Perhaps your 4.0 had a lower (higher ratio) reverse gear.

bd
It didn't feel like it strained at all. It just cruised right up.

If anything I'd have some wheel slippage in gravel, especially if I stopped on the hill, but never lack of torque.

I always monitored transmission fluid for being burnt. Etc. Never a problem.

It went for 227K miles before I sold it. Didn't back it up that hill very often. And transmission was still great.

If it felt like it was straining I would have used it.

The only time it did strain was when I'd forget to lock out the surge breaks on the trailer. If I ran 4LO I probably would have damaged something.
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  #32  
Old 10-10-2013, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mswlogo View Post
It didn't feel like it strained at all. It just cruised right up.

If anything I'd have some wheel slippage in gravel, especially if I stopped on the hill, but never lack of torque.

I always monitored transmission fluid for being burnt. Etc. Never a problem.

It went for 227K miles before I sold it. Didn't back it up that hill very often. And transmission was still great.

If it felt like it was straining I would have used it.

The only time it did strain was when I'd forget to lock out the surge breaks on the trailer. If I ran 4LO I probably would have damaged something.
Not refering to your 4.0...sounds like 4-hi reverse got the job done just fine. I'm just saying that if a current GC v6 is struggling due to a tall reverse gear, try lo range. Better that than hurting the tranny. The new 8 speed is a different design and reverse may not generate that stump pulling torque you need. Lo range will though.

My Nissan Murano has a tall reverse and its tough backing it up a hill by itself. I don't know why they did that because I don't ever plan on running 60mph in reverse! Maybe it reduces emissions by lowering RPMs or some other foolish reason.

bd
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  #33  
Old 10-10-2013, 02:08 AM
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Re: 2014 GC Limited Backing Up Steep Hill

When backing up that steep of a hill, most of the weight is shifted to the front, and the back will be very light. I would expect rear wheel slippage, but then the power should transfer to the front wheels. I had a similar issue with my 97 GJC in 4 high, but no issue in 4 low.
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  #34  
Old 10-10-2013, 08:16 AM
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Re: 2014 GC Limited Backing Up Steep Hill

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Originally Posted by Zybane View Post
The ZF transmission has a 3.30 reverse gear ratio, or about the same as second gear. Most reverse gear sets are designed not as strong as forward gears, so there definitely can be some limiting in play here. Remember, the 3.6L has the sorry to say "weak" version of the ZF.

What happens if you get a decent "rolling start" speed before the hill starts. Does it lose momentum really fast?
Here's the answer to AudiFirst's question...Zybane is on the right track, his answer along with the rear-end ratio is the issue. Manufactures today are trying to get the best fuel mileage they can. They are gearing the rear end of the vehicle really high (lower number rear end means higher final drive ratio) to get the best fuel mileage. Like Zybane said with the transmission ratio of 3.30 itís like going up the hill in second gear and he's exactly right. Reverse is only one gear and they make it an in-between itís not real a low (transmission) gear nor a higher gear...its basically the same as trying to go up the hill in second gear going forward.

When I was a kid my Dad had a '79 Dodge Power Wagon 4x4 with 3.23 rear-end that thing going forward up a steep hill would power out meaning with the pedal to the floor RPMs up, the vehicle wouldn't move like it was in neutral...but it wasnít. When you put it in low range that thing would climb a tree (if it would stick to the tree) with very little gas. This was all because of the transfer case gearing it really low. The moral of the story isÖ.thatís why Jeep gave you low rangeÖ.itís for steep hills, boat ramps and difficult situations...itís there you just have to use itÖ.even though itís a pain to stop and switch it into low range.
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  #35  
Old 10-10-2013, 09:39 AM
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I don't think that op has a problem using 4 low, but it looks like his driveway is paved and has a bend in it. I think he is worried about all the binding you get while turning in 4 low.
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:01 AM
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Re: 2014 GC Limited Backing Up Steep Hill

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I don't think that op has a problem using 4 low, but it looks like his driveway is paved and has a bend in it. I think he is worried about all the binding you get while turning in 4 low.

Your correct if it is paved that would be a problem however, if you look at the PIC in Post#26 it apperars to be gravel and it would allow the inside wheels to slip when needed in the turn. Its all about torque...and I'm not talking about the twerk from Miley Cryus...but the gears and ratios makes a big difference on steep grades. Thats why off-road vehicles like the Rubicon has a really low crawl ratio to climb steep grades up and coming down work best. Help this helps.
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