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  #37  
Old 10-10-2013, 10:11 AM
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In his very first post it states that his driveway is pavement.
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  #38  
Old 10-10-2013, 04:44 PM
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Re: 2014 GC Limited Backing Up Steep Hill

The driveway IS paved as you can see in the photo. And yes it does bind in 4 low and that short strech backing is the only place I would need 4 low so the rest of the trip up the hill going forward is silly in 4 low.

AND my point and disappointment is that a whimpy RAV 4 does it just fine w/o 4 low as did my previous 2002 WJ which by the way had a taller final drive than the 2014.

why won't it REV higher than 2000 RPM. Is it load or software limited? It feels like software to me.
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  #39  
Old 10-10-2013, 04:54 PM
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Re: 2014 GC Limited Backing Up Steep Hill

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Originally Posted by not_too_shabby View Post
Take a video of it and put it on youtube under jeep fail. Maybe that will get a response from jeep.
Title the video "Jeep Baby Ain't Got Back" or similar.
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  #40  
Old 10-10-2013, 05:11 PM
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Re: 2014 GC Limited Backing Up Steep Hill

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Originally Posted by Audifirst View Post
The driveway IS paved as you can see in the photo. And yes it does bind in 4 low and that short strech backing is the only place I would need 4 low so the rest of the trip up the hill going forward is silly in 4 low.

AND my point and disappointment is that a whimpy RAV 4 does it just fine w/o 4 low as did my previous 2002 WJ which by the way had a taller final drive than the 2014.

why won't it REV higher than 2000 RPM. Is it load or software limited? It feels like software to me.
Yes, any rev limit will be software based in the ECU. They could have programmed it that way to maximize transmission life and to not over-stress/over-rev the engine and driveline in reverse.

Did they program it too cautiously? Possibly. Did they figure if anyone was backing up that steep of an incline they would naturally use low range? Possibly.

I know in my JK Wrangler Rubicon (manual), reverse absolutely sucks for any kind of power when not in 4-Low. Very difficult to back up in any off-road/incline situation without massive clutch slippage/wear in 4-Hi/2-Hi.
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  #41  
Old 10-10-2013, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audifirst View Post
my point and disappointment is that a whimpy RAV 4 does it just fine w/o 4 low as did my previous 2002 WJ which by the way had a taller final drive than the 2014.
The final drive ratio has little to do with anything. Its the net ratio in reverse that is too tall in reverse on the GC. A 4 cylinder WWII Willis Jeep with proper gearing can back your boat up that hill. My little 40hp garden tractor can do it. Its the gearing, not the engine.
Quote:
why won't it REV higher than 2000 RPM. Is it load or software limited? It feels like software to me.
I'm sure they are using power management to prevent you from doing what you are unintentionally trying to do....damage the tranny. If the vehicle is supposed to go 20 mph at 2000 rpm in reverse (because hi range reverse is too tall IMHO) and yet it is barely moving due to a heavy load, where is the energy going? Heat. If you could rev to 4000 rpm and your going 3mph, what is slipping? Answer: the torque converter or God forbid, the tranny. That is very abusive.

The torque converter is a very inefficient hydraulic gearbox. It can multiply the torque up to 2 times or more. Depending on the difference between engine speed and tranny speed. 2000 rpm at 0 speed is a lot of slip, 4000 rpm might damage the tranny.

I would be frustrated too. The GC reverse is too tall for heavy loads. Forcing it to the limits is a recipe for premature failure unfortunately.

bd
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  #42  
Old 10-11-2013, 10:51 AM
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Re: 2014 GC Limited Backing Up Steep Hill

I get it. This some what unique situation exceeds the design parameters of this vehicle. Just frustrated at this point. The 2014 GC is amaizing in many ways, gas mileage, towing ability, comfort, electronic gizmos etc. I am resigned to going to low or keeping it on the less steep section and geting a little running start. It's just a little embarassing when my cousin in his little whimpy 2005 RAV 4 shows up the big bad GC on the hill.

Thanks all for your comments.
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  #43  
Old 10-11-2013, 11:20 AM
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Re: 2014 GC Limited Backing Up Steep Hill

Maybe this was already mentioned, and I have no idea if it even makes a difference... but what if you put your selec-terrain in Mud/Sand setting?

I think this allows the RPM to stay higher, but then again... not sure if it works in Reverse.

TIFWIW though, as another poster mentioned if the gearing is just too tall or something, don't want to mess up your torque convertor/trans etc.
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Old 10-11-2013, 11:39 AM
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Re: 2014 GC Limited Backing Up Steep Hill

If you have it in 4LO would any of the Select Terrain modes allow the Center Diff to NOT be locked. Seems like there should be a way to run it that way. But perhaps it's a mechanical thing when in 4LO.

Also it seems to me RPM limiting it, could do more harm than good. If it's at 2000 RPM and moving along what's wrong with letting it go to 2500. Versus hard limiting it people will just sit there letting it burn itself up. It should be able to calculate how much torque the torque converter is seeing and limit it based on real dynamics.

In other words moving slowly with lots of torque converter slippage at say 2500 RPM might be easier on the torque converter than 2000 RPM and not moving at all. I'm sure time is a factor too. A few seconds at 3000 RPM to keep moving vs infinite amount of time at 2000 RPM and not moving I'm sure is also harder on the Torque converter. I'm sure Jeep knows how to do this and just seems lazy to just put in a dumb 2000 RPM limit. It should be a Torque Converter limit (what it relatively sees).
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  #45  
Old 10-11-2013, 12:31 PM
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Re: 2014 GC Limited Backing Up Steep Hill

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbospartan View Post
Maybe this was already mentioned, and I have no idea if it even makes a difference... but what if you put your selec-terrain in Mud/Sand setting?

I think this allows the RPM to stay higher, but then again... not sure if it works in Reverse.

TIFWIW though, as another poster mentioned if the gearing is just too tall or something, don't want to mess up your torque convertor/trans etc.
I tried about every conbination of settings and non-appeared to make a difference in reverse. The Rock setting which is only availble in Low Range is suposed to allow slippage to avoid driveline binding (chucking) but it does not seem to make any diffenece either.
I am going to take the GC back to the dealer for a software patchthat they said is availble for the 2014 with the 8 spd tranny but form the description it did not sound like it was related to my issue but don't recall now what it was for.
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  #46  
Old 10-11-2013, 12:35 PM
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Re: 2014 GC Limited Backing Up Steep Hill

Quote:
Originally Posted by mswlogo View Post
If you have it in 4LO would any of the Select Terrain modes allow the Center Diff to NOT be locked. Seems like there should be a way to run it that way. But perhaps it's a mechanical thing when in 4LO.

Also it seems to me RPM limiting it, could do more harm than good. If it's at 2000 RPM and moving along what's wrong with letting it go to 2500. Versus hard limiting it people will just sit there letting it burn itself up. It should be able to calculate how much torque the torque converter is seeing and limit it based on real dynamics.

In other words moving slowly with lots of torque converter slippage at say 2500 RPM might be easier on the torque converter than 2000 RPM and not moving at all. I'm sure time is a factor too. A few seconds at 3000 RPM to keep moving vs infinite amount of time at 2000 RPM and not moving I'm sure is also harder on the Torque converter. I'm sure Jeep knows how to do this and just seems lazy to just put in a dumb 2000 RPM limit. It should be a Torque Converter limit (what it relatively sees).

You have described exactly what I would like to see. In my case just a few more RPM's for a couple of seconds would do the trick.
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  #47  
Old 10-11-2013, 01:12 PM
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Re: 2014 GC Limited Backing Up Steep Hill

I purchased a 14 GC Overland for my wife a couple months ago and we went to a friends house that has a very steep driveway possibly steeper than the op's. The jeep had around 500 miles on it and was loaded with four adults and some stuff in the back. I baked up the driveway and had about the same experience. It didn't stop but I had to mash the pedal to get up the hill.

One week later I took it to my dealer for a air suspension issue and had them do an update for the trans. I saw the update on this forum and it fixed the shift points and over all smith operation.

A month later we were at the friends house again and I again backed up the steep driveway and had no issues. I also had about 300 more pounds in the vehicle. The select terrain was in auto and the driveway was paved. So I'm thinking this driveway is pretty close to yours and after the update I had no issues. Hope this helps.
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  #48  
Old 10-13-2013, 06:59 PM
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Re: 2014 GC Limited Backing Up Steep Hill

Jms

That is very encouraging news. I am aware of the update but was told that it may not help. I will be taking the GC in for the upgrade soon. We have about 4000 miles on it now and actually it's doing better but not great. I hope the upgrade will help.
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