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  #25  
Old 10-11-2014, 07:58 AM
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Aero mode even with ECO off?

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Originally Posted by Barboots View Post
Stooge the potentiometers.

Also an option, but this would detrimentally affect the operation of the other aspects of the ASCM operation (load leveling and height level adjustments in general would not operate properly). And if you wanted to work around that--we are quickly going from "simple" to "getting more complicated" in a hurry.

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  #26  
Old 10-11-2014, 08:03 AM
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Re: Aero mode even with ECO off?

Why would applying the same amount of "shift" to each potentiometer circuit make load levelling and height adjustment fail to work? Detailed... please.
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  #27  
Old 10-11-2014, 08:48 AM
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Re: Aero mode even with ECO off?

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Originally Posted by Barboots View Post
Why would applying the same amount of "shift" to each potentiometer circuit make load levelling and height adjustment fail to work? Detailed... please.

It's easy to apply a "shift". That's not the issue. But a "shift" won't prevent it from dropping 0.6 inches in aero mode. It will still drop that same amount...your starting point is just different. The original thread here is about preventing aero mode from happening at all.
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  #28  
Old 10-11-2014, 09:26 AM
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Re: Aero mode even with ECO off?

I'm not talking about reengineering the system here...I'm simply saying that it would be easy to temporarily interrupt the signal that triggers aero mode. There are always inputs and outputs on any ECM-controlled system. With the correct schematics, its not hard to identify them and then interrupt the signal.
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Old 10-11-2014, 09:31 AM
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Re: Aero mode even with ECO off?

And what I'm trying to tell you is that it isn't a simple signal. The ASCM is reading multiple parameters from other ECUs...not over "signal lines" directly, but by reading those values as transmitted to it by request via communications protocols over the CAN bus. For example, it is requesting and receiving vehicle speed from the ABS controller, engine speed from the PCM, etc. it then takes those values and internally decides (in it's own decision making) whether to enter AERO mode.
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  #30  
Old 10-11-2014, 10:05 AM
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Re: Aero mode even with ECO off?

If prevention is the issue, then you would need to cancel or hijack the message to shift to Aero... sure. Anything else is an indexed adjustment... which suits me fine, but obviously isn't everyone's solution.

Looking at it for from an entirely preventative approach for the first time, a possible method might include intercepting the compressor and/or pneumatic valve block on/off signals. Do they alter once load and nominated ride height are accommodated? I don't believe so, as even when electronically failed these systems continue to function at their current height preset. Alternatively, a longer shot is to apply a simulated user input to the manual ride height controls. I haven't looked at the switching or timing thereof, but if a circuit toggled the user's selection of "up" and "down" alternately every few seconds, would the ASCM freak out, maintain Normal Ride Height or do as it planned and shift to Aero? I can't recall if it is impossible to select NRH manually above Aero speed? Someone will advise before tomorrow morning I'm certain ;-) Does changing Terrain modes provide any angles?

I don't think it's a total bust... yet!

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  #31  
Old 10-11-2014, 11:20 AM
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Re: Aero mode even with ECO off?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barboots View Post
If prevention is the issue, then you would need to cancel or hijack the message to shift to Aero... sure. Anything else is an indexed adjustment... which suits me fine, but obviously isn't everyone's solution.

Looking at it for from an entirely preventative approach for the first time, a possible method might include intercepting the compressor and/or pneumatic valve block on/off signals. Do they alter once load and nominated ride height are accommodated? I don't believe so, as even when electronically failed these systems continue to function at their current height preset. Alternatively, a longer shot is to apply a simulated user input to the manual ride height controls. I haven't looked at the switching or timing thereof, but if a circuit toggled the user's selection of "up" and "down" alternately every few seconds, would the ASCM freak out, maintain Normal Ride Height or do as it planned and shift to Aero? I can't recall if it is impossible to select NRH manually above Aero speed? Someone will advise before tomorrow morning I'm certain ;-) Does changing Terrain modes provide any angles?

I don't think it's a total bust... yet!

Cheers,
Steve

Intercepting the compressor on/off signals won't work well. The ride height does adjust at other times--remember, gas changes pressure with temperature fluctuations and the system does accommodate that. Others may get in the vehicle, etc...etc. Plus, this would also affect changes to other ride heights. Not to mention the fact that the ASCM would throw codes as it monitors ride height and if it tries to change it but no change occurs it will signal that as a fault.

The system has lockouts in place at speed. At 45+ mph or so (below the speed Aero comes into play) no setting but "Normal" is allowed for user selection. Aero is a sub-mode of "Normal"--there is no specific user selection for it. So, hitting the buttons at over 45mph does nothing--it will not prevent Aero mode from activating. Not to mention that if you select up/down every few seconds (even while sitting still) the system will constantly adjust--using the compressor and very shortly causing it to overheat and set a fault.
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  #32  
Old 10-11-2014, 11:28 AM
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Re: Aero mode even with ECO off?

Check out the "2014 Grand Cherokee Information - Australia" thread posts 12265 and newer.

A viable solution is being engineered and coming soon.


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  #33  
Old 10-11-2014, 01:58 PM
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Re: Aero mode even with ECO off?

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Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
Check out the "2014 Grand Cherokee Information - Australia" thread posts 12265 and newer.

A viable solution is being engineered and coming soon.


Sent from my iPad using JeepGarage

And it will be cool when such a solution is created. Again...not saying it CAN'T be done. Only that it will not be an "easy" 1-2-3 kind of thing like it was implied before.
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  #34  
Old 10-11-2014, 10:25 PM
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Re: Aero mode even with ECO off?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_K View Post
And what I'm trying to tell you is that it isn't a simple signal. The ASCM is reading multiple parameters from other ECUs...not over "signal lines" directly, but by reading those values as transmitted to it by request via communications protocols over the CAN bus. For example, it is requesting and receiving vehicle speed from the ABS controller, engine speed from the PCM, etc. it then takes those values and internally decides (in it's own decision making) whether to enter AERO mode.

...and when it does enter Aero mode, it sends a signal. Again, don't over-complicate this. In the end, a signal is sent to activate Aero mode. That signal can be interrupted.

LOL, maybe I need to track down the schematics and prove how easy it would be.
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Old 10-11-2014, 10:37 PM
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Aero mode even with ECO off?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
...and when it does enter Aero mode, it sends a signal. Again, don't over-complicate this. In the end, a signal is sent to activate Aero mode. That signal can be interrupted.

LOL, maybe I need to track down the schematics and prove how easy it would be.

It sends and receives messages over a bus. Not "signals." If you interrupt that bus, you will create MANY undesirable effects because many OTHER messages are using that same bus. Look, I've been designing systems like this for years...please do--go track down a wiring diagram and explain how "easy" it is. You can find them on TechAuthority. Have at it. Let everyone know how that worked out for you.
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Old 10-11-2014, 11:16 PM
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Re: Aero mode even with ECO off?

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Originally Posted by Peter_K View Post
It sends and receives messages over a bus. Not "signals." If you interrupt that bus, you will create MANY undesirable effects because many OTHER messages are using that same bus. Look, I've been designing systems like this for years...please do--go track down a wiring diagram and explain how "easy" it is. You can find them on TechAuthority. Have at it. Let everyone know how that worked out for you.

And what exactly do you think a bus does? Yup, it's an interface to send/receive signals. Please tell me you're not serious....I can absolutely guarantee you that the bus has a pin that will in fact send a signal to the air suspension to enter Aero mode. Sure, there are multiple logic gates associated with that signal, but in the end it's a simple pin-out signal that is sent. I'm not sure why you're trying to be such a negative Nancy about this when it's nothing but electrical signals we're talking about.

Once again, I'm not talking about re-engineering the system, I'm simply talking about interrupting the signal to enter Aero mode. How about a little wager between us if you truly believe I can't prevent my Overland from going into Aero mode? Make it worth my while to prove it to you, which I will do with a video of my dashboard.
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