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Aero mode even with ECO off?

11K views 79 replies 17 participants last post by  MSCA 
#1 ·
I thought I read somewhere that the Aero ride height is only achieved when Eco mode is on. Am I mistaken? Because my vehicle goes into Aero mode on the highway whether Eco is on or off.
 
#6 ·
Aero mode occurs at a different speed in ECO and ECO Off for a 2014. With ECO ON, it goes into aero at 50mph after about 20 sustained seconds at 50 or above. I think at 56 or higher, it goes right in to aero mode without waiting the 20 seconds. With ECO OFF, it doesn't enter aero at all until reaching about 60mph, could be as high as 62. Often, I will disengage ECO if I know that I will be stopping at a light or something like that when at 50 or a little above to prevent cycling the air suspension up and down. I may even use the paddle shifters for a little extra control to keep in a higher gear somewhat compensating for ECO being OFF. In other words I use the control available to both save gas and reduce wear and tear. It is second nature after a while. If I stop, or slow down, I re-engage ECO again.


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#7 · (Edited)
I've noticed no difference in when it goes into aero on my '14..ECO on or off. I HAVE noticed that the programming seems to be a little more interesting than the boilerplate description as a hard, fast acceleration seems to sometimes induce an "early" drop into aero if I'm approaching its normal engagement range. Again, that's with or without ECO being on.
 
#11 ·
I didn't say that I didn't want it to go into Aero mode. I simply asked a question about it.

But anyway, I think they should have designed the system to go into Aero mode when at highway speeds in eco mode and had the ability to disengage Aero mode when Eco mode is off. Actually, I could quite easily make that modification myself, as it would be very simple.
 
#13 ·
I'd prefer to lock out aero mode when travelling fast on gravel roads. Actually, I'd prefer to be able to maintain OR 1.

QL doing whatever it wants wasn't something I considered when selecting the vehicle, plus it's standard with Overlands anyway. Roll on LLAMS...

Cheers,
Steve
 
#19 · (Edited)
I agree with Snipe315...this is all computer controlled, not mechanically controlled, so modifications to behavior would be a tough row to hoe. There are some physical connection arm modifications available to "lower" and/or "level" a JGC with QL and they have been discussed in the Suspension/Driveline/Brakes/Wheels/Tires section up above.

That said, for the record, I'd like to be able to run in Aero mode as "normal" most of the time, not just at 65+ MPH and without turning off traction control that happens with SportMode. But that's not an option...
 
#25 · (Edited)
Also an option, but this would detrimentally affect the operation of the other aspects of the ASCM operation (load leveling and height level adjustments in general would not operate properly). And if you wanted to work around that--we are quickly going from "simple" to "getting more complicated" in a hurry.
 
#27 ·
It's easy to apply a "shift". That's not the issue. But a "shift" won't prevent it from dropping 0.6 inches in aero mode. It will still drop that same amount...your starting point is just different. The original thread here is about preventing aero mode from happening at all.
 
#28 ·
I'm not talking about reengineering the system here...I'm simply saying that it would be easy to temporarily interrupt the signal that triggers aero mode. There are always inputs and outputs on any ECM-controlled system. With the correct schematics, its not hard to identify them and then interrupt the signal.
 
#29 ·
And what I'm trying to tell you is that it isn't a simple signal. The ASCM is reading multiple parameters from other ECUs...not over "signal lines" directly, but by reading those values as transmitted to it by request via communications protocols over the CAN bus. For example, it is requesting and receiving vehicle speed from the ABS controller, engine speed from the PCM, etc. it then takes those values and internally decides (in it's own decision making) whether to enter AERO mode.
 
#34 ·
...and when it does enter Aero mode, it sends a signal. Again, don't over-complicate this. In the end, a signal is sent to activate Aero mode. That signal can be interrupted.

LOL, maybe I need to track down the schematics and prove how easy it would be.
 
#30 · (Edited)
If prevention is the issue, then you would need to cancel or hijack the message to shift to Aero... sure. Anything else is an indexed adjustment... which suits me fine, but obviously isn't everyone's solution.

Looking at it for from an entirely preventative approach for the first time, a possible method might include intercepting the compressor and/or pneumatic valve block on/off signals. Do they alter once load and nominated ride height are accommodated? I don't believe so, as even when electronically failed these systems continue to function at their current height preset. Alternatively, a longer shot is to apply a simulated user input to the manual ride height controls. I haven't looked at the switching or timing thereof, but if a circuit toggled the user's selection of "up" and "down" alternately every few seconds, would the ASCM freak out, maintain Normal Ride Height or do as it planned and shift to Aero? I can't recall if it is impossible to select NRH manually above Aero speed? Someone will advise before tomorrow morning I'm certain ;-) Does changing Terrain modes provide any angles?

I don't think it's a total bust... yet!

Cheers,
Steve
 
#31 ·
Intercepting the compressor on/off signals won't work well. The ride height does adjust at other times--remember, gas changes pressure with temperature fluctuations and the system does accommodate that. Others may get in the vehicle, etc...etc. Plus, this would also affect changes to other ride heights. Not to mention the fact that the ASCM would throw codes as it monitors ride height and if it tries to change it but no change occurs it will signal that as a fault.

The system has lockouts in place at speed. At 45+ mph or so (below the speed Aero comes into play) no setting but "Normal" is allowed for user selection. Aero is a sub-mode of "Normal"--there is no specific user selection for it. So, hitting the buttons at over 45mph does nothing--it will not prevent Aero mode from activating. Not to mention that if you select up/down every few seconds (even while sitting still) the system will constantly adjust--using the compressor and very shortly causing it to overheat and set a fault.
 
#48 · (Edited)
Bill, my first car was a 1969 Dodge Dart with the straight 6...it was my 21st birthday present. :) And the last car I had with a black interior... :D I remember wanting to get it painted purple and wanting to put those white spoked wheels on it that were so popular at that time period. (late 1970s)
 
#61 · (Edited)
The way these systems are designed, there are no signals that you can easily manipulate to change ride height outside the programmed parameters without causing problems. In the best case, you end up having some sort of semi-functioning, "unhappy" system that is setting lots of faults. Worst case you end up with damaged components and/or a dangerous vehicle.

Remember that ride height is a dynamic feedback system with the ASCM monitoring suspension heights at all four corners and adjusting them up or down to meet their programmed heights by adding or relieving pressure in each individual air spring. The ONLY way to properly change the operation of the system is through reprogramming of the system, and I hightly doubt anyone here is going to do that. I also doubt that those who could wouldn't. I have worked with air and hydraulic suspension systems on Audis (Allroads, Q7), Mercedes (S, Gs, MLs - check out "rodeo mode" on an S class with hydraulic suspension - that is fun), Porsches (Cayenne), VW (Touareg) etc. With each I have seen people try to change things for whatever reason. Rarely do these changes work without some negative side effect, and I have never seen a change that I would consider worthwhile. Different, yes, worthwhile, no.

Here is a bone. Rumor has it that by fudging the calibrations for the ride height sensors with the factory diagnostic tools you can adjust the suspension up or down, but even if you know what you are doing with that it can have some bad side effects. My guess is that even doing that you would only be able to lower the suspension, not raise it. This has been done with other vehicles with what some would consider success. If you have access to a wiTECH tool and want to experiment, that IMO, is your best option. I do and I wouldn't. YMMV.

I say "Go for it!". I will sit back with my popcorn.
 
#62 ·
Here is a bone. Rumor has it that by fudging the calibrations for the ride height sensors with the factory diagnostic tools you can adjust the suspension up or down, but even if you know what you are doing with that it can have some bad side effects. My guess is that even doing that you would only be able to lower the suspension, not raise it. This has been done with other vehicles with what some would consider success. If you have access to a wiTECH tool and want to experiment, that IMO, is your best option. I do and I wouldn't. YMMV.

I say "Go for it!". I will sit back with my popcorn. Some people just like to mess with things...

You can pretty easily change the "base height" of the suspension using the WiTech tool. You just have to change the calibration offsets. You can go either way...but increasing the base height will likely put you at the stops in OR2 (which will overtax the compressor as it keeps trying to raise the vehicle and can't--eventually throwing a fault) or potentially damage the air springs. Agreed...I wouldn't do this either. But some people might find use for it.
 
#64 · (Edited)
This guy has been doing it for Landrovers for a while and seems to have it sussed for the GC too, he just needs to source some PnP connectors to make it simple to install:

Llams PTY LTD

I wouldn't expect this system is 'easy' to build, but it doesn't seem as complex as some are suggesting either.... without knowing how he has done it.

edit:

Some info on how he did it:

The system modifies height sensor signals to cause the suspension ecu to think that the vehicle is too low or high and makes use of its self-levelling function. The suspension ecu will wait for about 5 seconds before adjusting heights as it does for any self-levelling, unless a height mode change is occurring whereby both changes will be implemented together. +30mm provides improved bump-stop clearance and thus better ride without using full off-road height. -20mm is LR's 160kph+ height.
 
#65 · (Edited)
This guy has been doing it for Landrovers for a while and seems to have it sussed for the GC too, he just needs to source some PnP connectors to make it simple to install:

Llams PTY LTD

I wouldn't expect this system is 'easy' to build, but it doesn't seem as complex as some are suggesting either.... without knowing how he has done it.

Actually he has a "semi-complex" engineered solution--which is exactly the starting point for what you would need to do this the right way. The argument was about the claim that it could be done "easily"--by simply looking at some wiring diagrams and using a very simple setup to just intercept a "signal" to make the desired outcome (no Aero mode switch) without affecting the rest of the suspension operation or causing errors.

This person's solution took some effort--including a new controller that he developed to go inline with the existing one. It's the starting point for type of thing I'd expect to see for a real solution.

However--as you said it seems to work on the principle of modifying the incoming height sensor values (much as if you'd changed the calibration values with the factory scan tool)...but perhaps with a bit more flexibility as it can be changed on the fly. From what I see though, it isn't able to inhibit the standard mode changes of the suspension inherently--just change the base height they use. Since he has an actual controller he is using you might be able to get more flexible with that--especially if you design in a link to the CAN bus.
 
#77 · (Edited)
If he did anything at all he is simply cutting power to the ASCM with his switch. So, as noted a nauseating number of times already, he isn't disabling Aero mode selectively--he's disabling the entire suspension system (i.e. "tearing the engine out to increase gas mileage"). This was in fact discussed as an option (not a GOOD one)...to which he said that wasn't what he would do anyway. So if that's what he did...we're back to that I suppose.

When it is left off is that when by accident someone hits one of the suspension buttons or power cycles, or the dealership does anything involving scanning the vehicle is when there will be unpleasant surprises. Plus, the longer you leave the system without power the more the air springs will become "unbalanced" and start affecting handling due to the lack of leveling function compensating for weight, temp changes, etc. In reading the air spring PSI with WiTech over a 25 mile run it's pretty interesting just how much the pressure changes simply from temperature shifts. In essence it's a very bad mod and not one I would recommend, if in fact that's what was done.
 
#79 ·
I could see a slight "usefulness"...mostly from an appearance perspective. Though--it's really hard to tell the difference between aero and non-aero mode unless you're really looking for it. I don't believe any mod which completely disables the entire suspension (rather than properly finding the way to disable just that one mode) is very useful. It even has the potential to be dangerous.

In any case this silliness has run its course on all sides I think. I for one apologize to all the others on here if I was being a bit too...nasty in my responses to a certain individual. You all shouldn't have to read flame fests on here. I tend to react that way when I feel people are going off on uninformed tangents and should probably just let people do what they're going to do :)
 
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