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  #205  
Old 08-16-2013, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post

Spoken like someone who has not had these problems. My issues have been 1/10th of his and I get it. Its incredibly frustrating to have all of these failures on a vehicle in this day and age, and when your family depends on the vehicle for their safe transport to and fro, and you have to be confident in their ability to depend on it...other vehicles start looking pretty darn good...even if they may not be as "capable" as the Jeep.
100%. Precisely. Maybe there is some pride in being such a Jeephead that you would put up with your car shutting off while driving and you can't even turn on the flashers, the same thing happening to your wife with your child in the car AFTER the dealer has told you its fixed, Chrysler not returning your calls, then having your car spend a month in the dealer with no communication from Chrysler and little from your dealer.

These things are EXTREMELY disruptive to family life and a real stress when you can't be sure your family is safe in their vehicle. We recently had a truck die on the expressway here on Long Island at night with no flashers. Before the driver could get out, he was hit from behind by a big truck and killed. That thought went through my mind when our Jeep started dying while driving. And when it was dead, it was dead. No flashers, no power at all.

If you are such a Jeep fan or so Zen you can dismiss that as no big deal, then you are a better man than I. I can't deal with that, nor should I have had to for a new car at $40K. And @marosenb dealt with it twice.

I love Jeeps. I love my Wrangler each and every day i drive it. I will probably try another GC some day in the future when this experience is further behind me, but yeah - after something like this, a lot of rational folks will make a compromise or two.
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  #206  
Old 08-16-2013, 10:34 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

both of you guys need to go back and READ what i posted. I said "i would take his first Jeep over an explorer" I didnt say i would take his first jeep and put my wife and family in it everyday. Some people need to take a step back and join reality and not be so emotional. Its a Jeep...a vehicle that they are replacing or have replaced. This IS NOT a perfect world becasue we are ALL human beings. Guess what...these vehicles are built by imperfect human beings. Nothing will be perfect....ever.
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  #207  
Old 08-16-2013, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Scottina06 View Post
both of you guys need to go back and READ what i posted. I said "i would take his first Jeep over an explorer" I didnt say i would take his first jeep and put my wife and family in it everyday. Some people need to take a step back and join reality and not be so emotional. Its a Jeep...a vehicle that they are replacing or have replaced. This IS NOT a perfect world becasue we are ALL human beings. Guess what...these vehicles are built by imperfect human beings. Nothing will be perfect....ever.
Very true. But I will say this - go through what some of us have gone through with these vehicles and try NOT to get emotional. I think as human beings, males at that, our instinct is to keep our family safe. When you can't do that and no one at the dealer or Chrysler is understanding how your family is potentially endangered by this new vehicle that you just spent a good chunk of change on, that is supposed to be "the best of what we are made of," you get emotional.
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  #208  
Old 08-16-2013, 10:46 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

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Originally Posted by amc2002 View Post
100%. Precisely. Maybe there is some pride in being such a Jeephead that you would put up with your car shutting off while driving and you can't even turn on the flashers, the same thing happening to your wife with your child in the car AFTER the dealer has told you its fixed, Chrysler not returning your calls, then having your car spend a month in the dealer with no communication from Chrysler and little from your dealer.

These things are EXTREMELY disruptive to family life and a real stress when you can't be sure your family is safe in their vehicle. We recently had a truck die on the expressway here on Long Island at night with no flashers. Before the driver could get out, he was hit from behind by a big truck and killed. That thought went through my mind when our Jeep started dying while driving. And when it was dead, it was dead. No flashers, no power at all.

If you are such a Jeep fan or so Zen you can dismiss that as no big deal, then you are a better man than I. I can't deal with that, nor should I have had to for a new car at $40K. And @marosenb dealt with it twice.

I love Jeeps. I love my Wrangler each and every day i drive it. I will probably try another GC some day in the future when this experience is further behind me, but yeah - after something like this, a lot of rational folks will make a compromise or two.
All of what you say here is true and no one should have to put up with any of that. The fact of the matter is this could happen to any new vehicle. You could walk into any service dept from any brand and I am sure at one point or another they have had a brand new vehicle towed in after dying on the road. I also agree that you did receive poor service and things should have moved a lot faster for you. I also agree that we do seem to read about a lot of issues on this forum, but its really hard to compare to other forums because I don't see this much activity on other forums. You seem to point to marosenb a lot and from reading your other posts I think his experience was a turning point for you. Of all the issues on here quiting on the road is pretty rare there is not much of that at all. Jeep built 24 thousand Grand Cherokee's last month in July alone there is probably somewhere around 60 to 80 thousand of these 2014's on the road alone. I saw the other day on the news that number 5 million rolled off the line since they came out in 1992. If this was really a big problem don't you think it would end up in the media? I live about 15 minutes away from the Chrysler Hq and tech center and there are 2014 Grand Cherokees running around everywhere around here and I have yet to see one on the side of the road. So ya maybe one person did get two bad ones, but I think that is far from the norm.
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  #209  
Old 08-16-2013, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by jp467 View Post
So ya maybe one person did get two bad ones, but I think that is far from the norm.
I do not disagree with this at all. The question I asked myself was, do I feel lucky? Right now, I do not. That's all there is to it. Nothing in this life is certain, but I do feel that while the chances of me getting another vehicle that shuts off in traffic are slim to none, I know there is a probability I will have other issues with it, albeit minor ones. Right now, I want the best chance I can get of not visiting another dealer again except for maintenance, and I don't feel like trusting that desire with the Chrysler brand right now.

I get the criticism.

But walk a mile in my shoes, then watch that video from @marosenb, and then see how you feel. Do ya feel lucky?
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  #210  
Old 08-16-2013, 11:11 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

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Originally Posted by amc2002 View Post
I do not disagree with this at all. The question I asked myself was, do I feel lucky? Right now, I do not. That's all there is to it. Nothing in this life is certain, but I do feel that while the chances of me getting another vehicle that shuts off in traffic are slim to none, I know there is a probability I will have other issues with it, albeit minor ones. Right now, I want the best chance I can get of not visiting another dealer again except for maintenance, and I don't feel like trusting that desire with the Chrysler brand right now.

I get the criticism.

But walk a mile in my shoes, then watch that video from @marosenb, and then see how you feel. Do ya feel lucky?

There's no criticism from me. I can completely understand and I wouldn't put my wife or kids in a vehicle that is not reliable. I was only making the point that it could happen to any vehicle. I think your biggest problem was poor service and I think marosenb sealed the deal since you mention him in almost every post. So good luck with you new vehicle whatever it is and hopefully after a few years with that you try Jeep again.
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  #211  
Old 08-16-2013, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jp467 View Post

There's no criticism from me. I can completely understand and I wouldn't put my wife or kids in a vehicle that is not reliable. I was only making the point that it could happen to any vehicle. I think your biggest problem was poor service and I think marosenb sealed the deal since you mention him in almost every post. So good luck with you new vehicle whatever it is and hopefully after a few years with that you try Jeep again.
Thanks. This hasn't put me off the Jeep brand (my Wrangler is one of the awesome self-healing types) and I can say for an almost certainty I will be back at some point for a new Jeep of some kind. And yeah, seeing that video sealed the deal for this go-round, no question about it. Just didn't feel like taking a chance again, for now, remote as it is.

Cheers.
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  #212  
Old 08-17-2013, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottina06 View Post
both of you guys need to go back and READ what i posted. I said "i would take his first Jeep over an explorer" I didnt say i would take his first jeep and put my wife and family in it everyday. Some people need to take a step back and join reality and not be so emotional. Its a Jeep...a vehicle that they are replacing or have replaced. This IS NOT a perfect world becasue we are ALL human beings. Guess what...these vehicles are built by imperfect human beings. Nothing will be perfect....ever.
You mean to tell me Chevyboy isn't perfect.... He will be so disappointed.

Anyway, just me lightening up the conversation again... Scott is right, everyone is entitled to their opinions, we just can't all be made to think the same (boy would that be a boring forum). Scott's opinion about taking a problematic Jeep over an Explorer is just as valid as AMC choosing a different product line. Neither of them told any of us we must do or think as they do.
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  #213  
Old 08-18-2013, 05:38 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jp467 View Post
The fact of the matter is this could happen to any new vehicle....I also agree that we do seem to read about a lot of issues on this forum, but its really hard to compare to other forums because I don't see this much activity on other forums.
This is not an exceptionally busy forum, there are similarly busy forums for Ford vehicles, the Explorer, Toyota vehicles, Honda vehicles, Nissan vehicles, Lexus vehicles, Chevy vehicles, specific Chevy models. There are an unusual number of total vehicle failures on this forum, and it seems to be worse on the 2014 models than it does the 2011-2013 models, but for those models there are a LOT of reliability issues discussed here, buybacks, lemon law.

Its all over the place here, and it isn't on other forums. I think its pretty clear reliability and consistency through production is an issue for Chrysler (some units are great, some are a total disaster), at least with this vehicle. I do know other people with other Chrysler models, 300s and one with a Town & Country. T&C needed an engine rebuild at 24k miles.

Its a great vehicle, but I don't see how you can make the statement that "it could have happened with any vehicle". I suppose it could have...but it IS happening with a lot of THESE vehicles. If I get hit by a meteor, I may find solace in the fact that it "could have happened to anybody". But it DID happen to me. Look at reliability and dependability studies...Jeep and Chrysler are at the bottom and this is why. "It can happen to any brand" but it is more likely to happen in a Jeep if the experience we see here and reliability data seem to hold true.

With that said, I still love my Jeep and would still rather have a 2014 over the alternatives, but I am concerned that my 2011 might be less apt to give us big issues than a 2014, my issues so far have been minor. Maybe I should stick with the devil I know...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottina06
I said "i would take his first Jeep over an explorer" I didnt say i would take his first jeep and put my wife and family in it everyday.
LOL! What good is having a $45,000 2014 vehicle if you would drive it but would not feel safe with your wife and family in it everyday!?! I just don't get that.
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  #214  
Old 08-18-2013, 05:49 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
Its a great vehicle, but I don't see how you can make the statement that "it could have happened with any vehicle". I suppose it could have...but it IS happening with a lot of THESE vehicles. If I get hit by a meteor, I may find solace in the fact that it "could have happened to anybody". But it DID happen to me. Look at reliability and dependability studies...Jeep and Chrysler are at the bottom and this is why.
You're just making too much sense with that meteor analogy...

All that said, I think Chrysler at least understands it needs to improve quality, and I think it is doing that. I guess we'll see what owners think in another couple years. I wonder if this launch has been particularly troublesome for Chrysler/Jeep, or if this is pretty typical for them? They certainly don't seem to want to take any chances on the regular Cherokee and I hope that's a good sign in general. But who knows -- it still might have issues. I will be checking out the Cherokee forums to see what the launch is like.

Quote:
With that said, I still love my Jeep and would still rather have a 2014 over the alternatives, but I am concerned that my 2011 might be less apt to give us big issues than a 2014, my issues so far have been minor. Maybe I should stick with the devil I know...
I think that's wise, but who knows? I imagine all the activity we're seeing in regard to failures and other issues will die down over the coming six to eight months. I think it already has to a point, but it's odd that once the initial launch issues were cleared for the most part, suddenly there are new people posting about suspension issues and other electrical gremlins.
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Old 08-18-2013, 06:25 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

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Originally Posted by amc2002 View Post
You're just making too much sense with that meteor analogy...
I have a habit of doing that lol

Quote:
All that said, I think Chrysler at least understands it needs to improve quality, and I think it is doing that. I guess we'll see what owners think in another couple years. I wonder if this launch has been particularly troublesome for Chrysler/Jeep, or if this is pretty typical for them? They certainly don't seem to want to take any chances on the regular Cherokee and I hope that's a good sign in general. But who knows -- it still might have issues. I will be checking out the Cherokee forums to see what the launch is like.
I'm sure they do, and its a process. I think they have come a LONG way already, look at how improved the product is overall from what it was. Sit in a WK or WJ and then sit in a WK2, the vehicle feels several classes higher. But, Chrysler has had reliability problems for years, and the WK2 has a whole lot more tech than any previous Chrysler/Jeep product, and the issues are showing. I think my mechanic said it best as he was un-fusing my rotors from my hubs at 27k miles, he said what they (Chrysler) don't understand is that a reliable car is great from the inside out. He was saying the issues I've had, and that others have had come from poor quality electrical connectors/components, brake components are poor quality. Toyota (he was a Lexus master tech for 16 years) on the other hand uses high quality connectors and components...which is where their reliability comes from (although in my opinion now the surface quality isn't there). I've never owned a vehicle where a switch wore out...until the Jeep where multiple have and a couple even multiple times. The switch itself is cheap and poor quality, even though the interior, etc is very nice.

What they need to do is turn that surface quality inward, and get better control over QC in their development and assembly lines and that will make the product quality more consistent.

I'm sure Fiat doesn't help, not exactly known for reliability themselves.

What scares me about replacing my 2011 with a 2014 is the additional tech, the TFT speedo, the bigger screen with more functionality built in, the more button and virtual control that the vehicle has. Given that almost all of my issues have been electrical...I'd like an Overland but QL scares the hell out of me.

Quote:
but it's odd that once the initial launch issues were cleared for the most part, suddenly there are new people posting about suspension issues and other electrical gremlins.
Thats what happened back in 2011 too. I think the analogy to Jaguar is the 80s is apt. Its a high quality car, great to drive, ride in & look at...but you have to be prepared for failures...at least the difference is The Jags cost a fortune to repair, the Jeeps aren't as bad. The almost complete electrical control though makes electrical problems scarier from a safety standpoint though than they were back then.
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Old 08-18-2013, 06:54 PM
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Sorry SW03ES. ..totally disagree
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