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  #217  
Old 08-18-2013, 06:58 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
This is not an exceptionally busy forum, there are similarly busy forums for Ford vehicles, the Explorer, Toyota vehicles, Honda vehicles, Nissan vehicles, Lexus vehicles, Chevy vehicles, specific Chevy models. There are an unusual number of total vehicle failures on this forum, and it seems to be worse on the 2014 models than it does the 2011-2013 models, but for those models there are a LOT of reliability issues discussed here, buybacks, lemon law.

Its all over the place here, and it isn't on other forums. I think its pretty clear reliability and consistency through production is an issue for Chrysler (some units are great, some are a total disaster), at least with this vehicle. I do know other people with other Chrysler models, 300s and one with a Town & Country. T&C needed an engine rebuild at 24k miles.

Its a great vehicle, but I don't see how you can make the statement that "it could have happened with any vehicle". I suppose it could have...but it IS happening with a lot of THESE vehicles. If I get hit by a meteor, I may find solace in the fact that it "could have happened to anybody". But it DID happen to me. Look at reliability and dependability studies...Jeep and Chrysler are at the bottom and this is why. "It can happen to any brand" but it is more likely to happen in a Jeep if the experience we see here and reliability data seem to hold true.

With that said, I still love my Jeep and would still rather have a 2014 over the alternatives, but I am concerned that my 2011 might be less apt to give us big issues than a 2014, my issues so far have been minor. Maybe I should stick with the devil I know...



LOL! What good is having a $45,000 2014 vehicle if you would drive it but would not feel safe with your wife and family in it everyday!?! I just don't get that.

It could happen to any vehicle. I think you could talk to any service dept and if they were willing to tell you the truth which they probably would not there are stories of new vehicles being towed in. Now if your talking about what's more likely that might be a different story. I think when any new vehicle comes out there is a curve and the problems start to be reduced as production goes on and problems are worked out. The 2011 had issues come up early on. The shutter is one that comes to mind and then we started to see those go away. You mention the Explorer that forum had many problems early on and still does from time to time. I can remember reading about transmission failures and horrible rain noise which extends to more than the explorer because I have a fusion that sounds like a tin can in a car wash. There seem to be this belief out there that Ford ranks high in quality but do they rank any higher than Chrysler? I guess someone will have to point out where that is because I have not seen in in the latest surveys. In fact as I remember in the latest consumer reports the Grand Cherokee was #1 in the midsize suv segment when owner were asked if they would buy another one with like 81%.
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  #218  
Old 08-18-2013, 07:04 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottina06
Sorry SW03ES. ..totally disagree
You're hardly an unbiased source LOL. Seeing that you took the time and energy to create and run a thriving Jeep fan forum...you classify as a Jeep enthusiast.

Enthusiasts are more willing to put up with issues like this than ordinary consumers. This is my first Jeep, I'm not really an enthusiast...I'm an ordinary consumer. The people you see complaining in here for the most part are not enthusiasts.

They need the non-enthusiast to survive though thats what they need to understand, there are a lot more of us and we buy a lot more product. The enthusiast will keep driving a product that breaks down instead of a competitors product that doesn't as you have said you would do...a consumer like me will not.

How do you explain our issues if the product is so perfect? Are we unreasonable for expecting our vehicles to run, not leave us stranded, for major and minor components to survive more than a year of use, for the paint to be uniform, for the doors to line up? Are we wrong for wanting a vehicle other than the Jeep when we can't count on all those things to be a given?
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  #219  
Old 08-18-2013, 07:13 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

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Originally Posted by jp467 View Post
It could happen to any vehicle. I think you could talk to any service dept and if they were willing to tell you the truth which they probably would not there are stories of new vehicles being towed in. Now if your talking about what's more likely that might be a different story.
I know a lot of vehicle service advisors across multiple makes. I used to consult with car dealerships for a living, I worked directly with sales and service people to help them develop systems to convert sales business to service business, and to convert service business back to sales. I've had many informal lunches with service advisors...that experience coupled with my many years of reading, posting on, and moderating car forums across multiple makes tells me that these Jeeps have reliability problems, and that in general when compared to makes like Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc Chryslers are less reliable. I have been directly told by two Jeep service advisors at different dealerships I have had my Jeep at that they would never buy a Grand Cherokee because of the issues they've had.

You mention Ford, I didn't really. My family has owned Fords for 45+ years. I wouldn't make the statement that Ford is more reliable in general than Chrysler. I know most of those Ford vehicles were more reliable than my Jeep...but you read about issues on their forums. My experience with Ford would make me unafraid to buy one, lets just put it that way.

I can also tell you that I was warned by multiple people, family members, business associates, friends, before I got the Jeep...because Jeeps have a reputation of being unreliable. Back when I still recommended the Jeep, I got push back from people about them being unreliable. Like most rumors or prejudices...theres a kernel of truth there.

People make fun of Jaguars and Range Rovers because they were/are unreliable.

Remember...even with all of this that I've said if it were only my decision I would keep my Jeep or get another one. Thats a testament to how nice a vehicle it is, and how unbeatable a vehicle it could be if they worked through these issues and worked on this stigma.
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  #220  
Old 08-18-2013, 07:17 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

worst
Yahoo!

best
Best Off-Road Vehicles | Off-Roading - Consumer Reports
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  #221  
Old 08-18-2013, 07:26 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

Those are just subjective articles and have nothing to do with reliability (hence the Lexus LS hybrid on the worst list, the Lexus LS is widely recognized as one of the most reliable cars ever made).

When comparing off road capable SUVs, of course the Jeep would be on the list. Its incredibly capable, well made, stylish and comfortable, and a great value. Like I've said, even despite my issues there is no other vehicle I would want to replace it on those points.

Nobody here is denying the Jeep's appeal or ability. Its a question of reliability and how uneven quality seems to be from unit to unit. Its hard to find a negative review of the GC...but again that says nothing about real world reliability.
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  #222  
Old 08-18-2013, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
I can also tell you that I was warned by multiple people, family members, business associates, friends, before I got the Jeep...because Jeeps have a reputation of being unreliable. Back when I still recommended the Jeep, I got push back from people about them being unreliable. Like most rumors or prejudices...theres a kernel of truth there.

People make fun of Jaguars and Range Rovers because they were/are unreliable.
Bottom line, you are in a Jeep forum. There will be arguments when you make claims like this. But I happen to agree with you and so do most JD Power reports and the like, FWIW. And believe me, the first thing out of so many peoples' mouths when I mentioned my car shutting off while driving was, "oh, it's a Chrysler product, you're surprised?" And then more ribbing began. It may just be perception, and an incorrect one at that, but I fully believe a Chrysler product is far more likely to have a number of nagging issues than just about any other car out there besides maybe Range Rover and one or two other brands. Any manufacturer can serve up the occasional lemon though. But the thing is, ALL cars today by and large are far far closer today in quality from one brand to another than where they were ten years ago.

And as for the links to Yahoo and such, those are really just opinion pieces...
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  #223  
Old 08-18-2013, 07:36 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

Look here, JD Power (this is for the 2013, no 2014 data yet):

2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo SUV Ratings, Prices, Trims, Summary | J.D. Power

3/5 reliability. 2012 is the same, 2011 is 2/5.

Highlander:

2013 Toyota Highlander SUV Ratings, Prices, Trims, Summary | J.D. Power

4/5 reliability.

Lexus RX350:

2013 Lexus RX 350 FWD (A6) SUV Ratings, Prices, Trims, Summary | J.D. Power

5/5

Honda Pilot:

2013 Honda Pilot LX (A5) FWD SUV Ratings, Prices, Trims, Summary | J.D. Power

4/5

In general, the Jeep is less reliable. I'd still rather have it than all of these vehicles...but mine has never left me stranded on the side of the road. If it did, it would be gone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amc2002
Bottom line, you are in a Jeep forum. There will be arguments when you make claims like this.
Absolutely, and I understand that. That was the point I was making about an ordinary consumer vs an enthusiast. What I can't stand is when people do have problems, like you and the OP, and to a lesser extent me, they are then ostracized or somehow told that their issues are their fault even in the face of overwhelming evidence that its not the case. Fanboyism doesn't do anybody any good, including the manufacturer the fanboys are fanboys of.
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  #224  
Old 08-18-2013, 07:37 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

yep...subjective,,,just as your opinion. I respect your opinion....just as you just respect mine...even though Im an enthusiast. I still am real and ralize when somehting is not perfect. my 14' is not perfect. It arrived with an off color rear liftgate bar and a small scratch on same bar. Its been over 2 months with no resolution...on a $70k SRT.BUT...I am realistic in my expectations and realize there will be some problems here and there. Most are with the uconnect...but they are not hardware problems...more of lining out the programing. I see people on here wanting to lemon their new 14' over simple problems...simple. Also...this is not the ONLY forum I frequent. I am not totally blind..as you seem to infer...to other makes and models. For example....my wife wants a panamera....guess what? they have their problems as well. Anyway....Ive said too much already...
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  #225  
Old 08-18-2013, 07:49 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

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  #226  
Old 08-18-2013, 07:52 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

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Originally Posted by Scottina06 View Post
yep...subjective,,,just as your opinion.
Data however is not subjective. My opinion is based on my own experience with my own vehicle. It is not what I would define as a reliable vehicle. There are obviously many owners here who would agree with me. Unbiased data supports the idea that the Grand Cherokee is less reliable than many, if not most, of the vehicles it competes with. That is in fact not subjective. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.

Quote:
I still am real and ralize when somehting is not perfect. my 14' is not perfect. It arrived with an off color rear liftgate bar and a small scratch on same bar. Its been over 2 months with no resolution...on a $70k SRT.BUT...I am realistic in my expectations and realize there will be some problems here and there.
I too expected things like that, and I expected Jeep to be less accommodating, and I expected the vehicle to be less reliable than I was accustomed to. I did not expect to have 17 warranty repairs and the brake rotors to be fused to the hubs before 30k miles however.

Quote:
I see people on here wanting to lemon their new 14' over simple problems...simple.
Consumers expect a lot nowadays. Jeep is trying to play in a lot of different market, including the luxury segment. They have consumers coming from brands like Toyota/Honda, even Lexus, MB, BMW. These consumers have expectations. The important thing to remember...is the consumer is not wrong...the consumer is what he is and Jeep has got to figure out how to deliver what the consumer wants...or the consumer will consume something else. If they really want to be seen as a true quality automaker who can compete with not only Toyota, Honda but also luxury nameplates...they have work to do. They need to work on the quality of the product, and they need to work on how their consumers are treated and handled through the service and warranty experience. As a Lexus customer I was shocked by how poor the service is...and thats even with me expecting it to be poor. They exceeded my expectations. I've found an "okay" dealer now, but the dealership itself will turn anybody who is used to a luxury car dealer away before they ever walk in the door.

A lot of my frustration with dealing with my problems has been the way they've been handled by the dealer and by Chrysler. Their attitude is sort of like a lot of you here, that my issues are somehow a problem with me. Its not me...when I push a cruise control button I want the f@%$&ng cruise to work! Not a lot to ask.

Quote:
Also...this is not the ONLY forum I frequent. I am not totally blind..as you seem to infer...to other makes and models. For example....my wife wants a panamera....guess what? they have their problems as well. .
Porsche's not exactly a brand that is known for its reliability...and its a different market. The Jeep is a mainstream product.
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  #227  
Old 08-18-2013, 08:20 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

I agree, asking for a car to function as expected is not too much to ask. Asking for a new car that spends more time with its owner than the dealer seems reasonable. Asking for a dealer that has people trained on fixing the issues and not just throwing parts at it seems reasonable.

Of course I think that the owners being able to buy a wiring diagram or at least a Shop manual CD usable on current systems and with a search capability is not unreasonable either
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Old 08-18-2013, 08:36 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
I know a lot of vehicle service advisors across multiple makes. I used to consult with car dealerships for a living, I worked directly with sales and service people to help them develop systems to convert sales business to service business, and to convert service business back to sales. I've had many informal lunches with service advisors...that experience coupled with my many years of reading, posting on, and moderating car forums across multiple makes tells me that these Jeeps have reliability problems, and that in general when compared to makes like Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc Chryslers are less reliable. I have been directly told by two Jeep service advisors at different dealerships I have had my Jeep at that they would never buy a Grand Cherokee because of the issues they've had.

You mention Ford, I didn't really. My family has owned Fords for 45+ years. I wouldn't make the statement that Ford is more reliable in general than Chrysler. I know most of those Ford vehicles were more reliable than my Jeep...but you read about issues on their forums. My experience with Ford would make me unafraid to buy one, lets just put it that way.

I can also tell you that I was warned by multiple people, family members, business associates, friends, before I got the Jeep...because Jeeps have a reputation of being unreliable. Back when I still recommended the Jeep, I got push back from people about them being unreliable. Like most rumors or prejudices...theres a kernel of truth there.

People make fun of Jaguars and Range Rovers because they were/are unreliable.

Remember...even with all of this that I've said if it were only my decision I would keep my Jeep or get another one. Thats a testament to how nice a vehicle it is, and how unbeatable a vehicle it could be if they worked through these issues and worked on this stigma.

How did you get a service advisor to say anything? Any vehicle I have ever owned Chrysler and non-Chrysler I have always had the same answer when I ask if they have seen an issue before. It's always this is the first one. If I go in now with a known issue I just ask for my own entertainment. I don't disagree that makers like Toyota and Honda are know for better reliability it would be hard to dispute that fact, but if you look at quality ratings now the best to the worst are not that far apart. So if you have two vehicles that are not worlds apart in quality then its going to come down to appeal. A lot of those high quality cars are boring, so I would take a vehicle with a few more issues over that. I think that's why the Grand Cherokee's sales are through the ceiling, they can't even keep up with the demand.
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