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  #385  
Old 10-21-2013, 09:30 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

There is no data that negates the statement that on the whole Japanese cars are more reliable than anything made by Chrysler.

They've come a long way, and we really like our Jeep. We just got back from an 850 mile road trip, Sunday we were in the car for 5 hours straight then 3 more hours straight. Aside from my Dad's Lexus LS's the Jeep is the best road trip car I have ever driven, it's comfortable, rides great, really comfortable seats, has great fuel range, quiet, pulls great at 80MPH up highway grades, even with the V6. BUT, there are obvious reliability issues for a lot of us.

Come a long way but they have a ways to go.
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  #386  
Old 10-22-2013, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
There is no data that negates the statement that on the whole Japanese cars are more reliable than anything made by Chrysler.

They've come a long way, and we really like our Jeep. We just got back from an 850 mile road trip, Sunday we were in the car for 5 hours straight then 3 more hours straight. Aside from my Dad's Lexus LS's the Jeep is the best road trip car I have ever driven, it's comfortable, rides great, really comfortable seats, has great fuel range, quiet, pulls great at 80MPH up highway grades, even with the V6. BUT, there are obvious reliability issues for a lot of us.

Come a long way but they have a ways to go.
OK,

I can agree with this statement much more. Not at all saying Chrysler is perfect.

I do disagree though slightly on the Japan built vehicles. I work with those guys too and they have seen a slide in quality for sure. I will see if I can find some documentation on that but their actual quality of build peaked pre 2007. Especially at Toyota, some of their suspension and electronics engineering in the last 5 years has dealers ready to jump ship.
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  #387  
Old 10-22-2013, 04:54 AM
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Re: And so it continues...

No, Chrysler is not perfect but then no car manufacturer is. We know that, but can I just share a story that happened to friends of ours today.

OK, about 3 months ago they purchased a MY13 MB B200 series (for her). That brand new vehicle was towed 5 times in 7 weeks. No good.

Drama after drama after drama with it. Finally (they think) sorted out. No issues so far after the last 3 weeks so all good. (touch wood).

But how unlucky could you be.

He decided also, to purchase a new Ford Ranger for his work car a month ago, picked it up yesterday and today it threw the 'Christmas Tree' EVIC display and limped back to the dealership. They don't know what's wrong.

How freaking unlucky can one couple be? Two different car manufacturers - both brand new vehicles - One Merc, one Ford.

Told them they should have bought a Jeep.

It happens with them all.
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  #388  
Old 10-22-2013, 06:13 AM
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Re: And so it continues...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
There is no data that negates the statement that on the whole Japanese cars are more reliable than anything made by Chrysler.

They've come a long way, and we really like our Jeep. We just got back from an 850 mile road trip, Sunday we were in the car for 5 hours straight then 3 more hours straight. Aside from my Dad's Lexus LS's the Jeep is the best road trip car I have ever driven, it's comfortable, rides great, really comfortable seats, has great fuel range, quiet, pulls great at 80MPH up highway grades, even with the V6. BUT, there are obvious reliability issues for a lot of us.

Come a long way but they have a ways to go.
If you read it again, you'll see that all I wrote was that it was baloney to write "Japanese cars, no." And it was, as the irrefutable data (885,000 cars recalled in the latest of many recent Toyota recalls) shows. I never wrote anything about more or less reliable anywhere.
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  #389  
Old 10-22-2013, 12:35 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

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Originally Posted by PhatAssWJ View Post
I love Jeep, I live Jeep, I bleed Jeep; I hate the Chrysler execs for making me feel the way I do. I come from a Jeep family- everyone owns Jeep vehicles, and has for three generations.
^^^^
This.
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  #390  
Old 10-22-2013, 12:49 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

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Originally Posted by Bostondan77 View Post
@Amc those guys are terrible that's why I will never deal with them again and I cant believe you are still going through this bs.

for all the people are posting about how good there jeep is now and how they haven't had one problem in order to in a sense dis credit or make the problems others are having to seem minimal you are doing the same thing Chrysler is doing. This is a problems section of the forum this is why it is there, as scott said they have made 200k plus of these trucks of course you are going to get a few bad ones. The fact is Chrysler has terrible customer service, most of there employees (ive shopped in both ny and nj at almost every dealer as well as serviced in both) are TERRIBLE. service people don't know anything and play stupid for when you have a problem and the sales teams think its your honor to buy from them.

bad buying experience + bad service= customer never coming back

and for all you guys who will say I don't know what im talking about I come from a group of friends who own dealerships and of course I couldn't have a friend who owns a Chrysler or jeep lol.
Just catching up on threads. Let me reiterate -- I WOULD LOVE NOTHING MORE than to buy/lease another Jeep in three years when my CR-V lease is up. And I would be more than willing to put up with a few quality control issues, doubting very much that I'll have the serious issues that I did on this one. However, what you say here is 100% correct. I really don't think there are any good dealers in the NY/NJ area that excel in BOTH sales AND service, and I think that is a regional issue. I had a generally good sales experience at Town & Country, and although I got the same BS at the service desk that I'd get everywhere else (they thought there was no real issue with my Jeep until the second time I came back and it had died again), they were pretty attentive after that. I got the sense they genuinely wanted to fix my Jeep, but the pathway to do that wasn't an express one. The district service manager and Chrysler itself was completely tone-deaf to any concerns or cries for assistance.

If you find a good dealer, one that will go out of its way to help you if you have issues, I think you'd be willing to accept just about any problems from your car because you know they have your back. Unfortunately, in this area, it seems NO DEALER has your back. Maybe that's because the industry is bouncing back so fiercely and it's easy to sell cars. I don't know.

What I do know is that in my case, the end result of not having that "feel-good" vibe from any dealers in the area is that you go for a brand with a higher reputation for reliability. This is like my fourth or fifth Japanese-branded car, and the latest one that has had absolutely positively zero issues in its first 2000 miles. Not a sunroof rattle, not a vibration at 70 mph, not a glitchy remote start... Nothing. Is it boring as hell? Yeah, it sure is. But my wife drives it and I don't even have to think about it. I don't have to schedule a service for a tailgate that isn't lined up properly, or a hose that fell off and drained the coolant, or anything.

Still, we both miss the GC like hell, trouble though it was.

Please, Chrysler. Work with your dealers. Improve communication. Improve customer service. But most of all, please improve quality and quality control.

I will be back in three years. I hope you have your house sorted out by then because I want to be your customer again.
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  #391  
Old 10-22-2013, 12:52 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

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Please, Chrysler. Work with your dealers. Improve communication. Improve customer service. Improve quality and quality control.
100% with you here amc, and I did not mean to speak on your behalf.

Stop by occasionally and check on our sanity please!
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  #392  
Old 10-22-2013, 01:16 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

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100% with you here amc, and I did not mean to speak on your behalf.

Stop by occasionally and check on our sanity please!
Willx, your comments in the past here are such that I would almost always trust you to speak for me.

Cheers.
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  #393  
Old 10-22-2013, 01:33 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

[not quoting to save precious internet screen space. As screens get smaller and smaller, soon the world will run out of said space ]

I'd agree.
There used to be a very active rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys newsgroup, but unfortunately it was taken over by one loudmouth and a bunch of sock puppet trollers.

I don't know that its more misery loves company [although I'd have to admit that there may be much of this] as much as that Jeep owners buy their vehicles with an intended purpose, and expect them to meet that purpose.

I don't see that many "vehicle as appliance" type owners, unlike certain Toyota models where you actively have to hate vehicles to consider one.

The purpose may be looking good at the Home Depot lot, or it may be "curbs are advisory traffic structures", or it may be driving in all sorts of weather on all sorts of terrain.

I'd suspect only Porsche owners are as rabidly fanatic as Jeep owners--for much the same reasons.
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  #394  
Old 10-22-2013, 02:01 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willx View Post
I do disagree though slightly on the Japan built vehicles. I work with those guys too and they have seen a slide in quality for sure. I will see if I can find some documentation on that but their actual quality of build peaked pre 2007. Especially at Toyota, some of their suspension and electronics engineering in the last 5 years has dealers ready to jump ship.
A slide in quality for sure. All you have to do is sit in a new Toyota and compare it to a Toyota from 10 years ago and the difference is pretty striking...

Even at Lexus, they are not what they once were.

Chrysler and others really have an opportunity here IMHO.
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  #395  
Old 10-22-2013, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post

A slide in quality for sure. All you have to do is sit in a new Toyota and compare it to a Toyota from 10 years ago and the difference is pretty striking...

Even at Lexus, they are not what they once were.

Chrysler and others really have an opportunity here IMHO.
This ^^^^ is the truth, and if they don't pull the dealer network together with quality improvements they will have missed the opportunity of the century.

They have the tech, they just need to straighten out some of the details and IMHO, the dealers seem to be one of the biggest issues.

I constantly see people that can't even get the simple stuff done, like a radio update because the dealer doesn't know where to find the software. My all time favorite is a TSB being issued for a fix people have been waiting for then dealers saying they haven't received it yet.... the updates are online and released to all dealers at once.... come on folks? Many of us out here on the outside already know this so how does that make the experts look.
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  #396  
Old 10-22-2013, 06:49 PM
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Re: And so it continues...

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They have the tech, they just need to straighten out some of the details and IMHO, the dealers seem to be one of the biggest issues.

I constantly see people that can't even get the simple stuff done, like a radio update because the dealer doesn't know where to find the software. My all time favorite is a TSB being issued for a fix people have been waiting for then dealers saying they haven't received it yet.... the updates are online and released to all dealers at once.... come on folks? Many of us out here on the outside already know this so how does that make the experts look.
Poor dealer experiences certainly aren't limited to the Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep side of things. They're often universal among "non-luxury" brands...and even some luxury brands.

From a service perspective, part of the issue is simply how the warranty system works. The flat time allotted for the labor is...well...ridiculous in some cases and much lower than for the same issue under customer-pay. The techs simply don't want to do the warranty work--customer pay is much more lucrative. Have a complex issue?...whew. Have a driveline vibration of some sort or a non-obvious electrical issue? What tech wants to approach those things? He or she will spend multiple hours on it...tedious hours...and in the end get paid 1 hour for a driveshaft R&R or 0.5 for a module pull (even if the actual labor took 3 times as long, nevermind the diag time...he MIGHT get an hour or less for that). Module reprogram (flash) for a TSB?...0.2 hours. Twelve (12) minutes paid. Often times it takes longer than that to set up to DO the flash. For the "setup", the tech isn't paid. In any case, said tech is watching the guys next to him pulling down many more customer pay hours easily for quick alternator replacements, plug changes, etc. Basically, there's a disincentive for the warranty side, and no incentive to do it. In fact, in many shops being stuck with all warranty work is considered punishment for screwing something up or irritating someone like the lead tech or shop foreman.

Your service advisor also hates warranty work because his cut is much smaller as well. Every second spent with your warranty claim is money lost to him or her.

The surveys used are also ridiculous--customers angry at the vehicle make note of that in the survey. As a result, even if the dealership did EVERYTHING right, they still get slammed by Chrysler in this respect because they survey numbers are awful. So...there's no real incentive to do well there either. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It doesn't help when you add to this that dealership parts departments (often run SEPARATELY from service) tend to be extremely greedy -- many using matrix pricing to charge varying percentages ABOVE MSRP on parts. I've watched service advisors and service managers almost get into knock-downs with parts managers and parts counter people who wouldn't budge on parts prices, even for stellar repeat customers. Sadly, the business model works to some degree as they're still making money.

LOTS needs to change in the dealership world to really fix that side of things for the customer experience.
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