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  #37  
Old 01-21-2011, 12:56 PM
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Re: !$^@&W%&#*#@^!@^@&% jeep !@^$@^

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpositraction View Post
LOL @ people dying. If you are going into remote areas where the level of risk is high enough where people could die then I sure woulnd't depend on my cell phone and my vehicle. I would have taken measures (satelite phone at the least) and enough supplies to survive for a given period of time. You guys crack me up with the off in left field stories! You all must be republicans LOL

This situation is NO different than a battery going dead PERIOD!!!!!! Batteries die all the time instantly (just happend to my wifes 2001 Monte Carlo no more than 6 months ago. She drove it around all day, came home parked it in the drive way, 10 minutes later go out and the battery is dead). Puncture your gas tank, you are out of gas! Rupture and radiator hose or radiator, out of luck. Lose your keys with no tools, dead! Roll over and land on the lid, dead.......etc!!!!!!!

I have been part of tons of forums since 2001 and I have seen some extremes. But as for the most whiniest group I have been a part of you guys take the cake!

I agree, the WIN module causing problems is not acceptable in the least, but to take that piece of information and run with it and all of a sudden people are dying........Really?

EDIT: I bet the guys getting all bent out of shape are the same people who forward the crazy emails, cut and paste the crazy facebook status, and thrive on concpiracy theories......entertaining at best!
Some people do actually drive in remote areas. There’s a thread on my 4Runner forum right now where a guy just drove 800 miles across remote parts of Alaska in low temps in the 35 to 55 below zero range. If you’re out there alone and your vehicle dies, there’s a real good chance that you’ll die too. His thread has some good tips, observations, and pictures. If you’re interested in reading it, you can find it here:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/genera...ctic-cold.html



Your statement that the issue with the WIN module failing is the same thing as a battery going dead or puncturing the gas tank, radiator hose rupturing etc.. is a logical fallacy at best. While it is true that any of those things can cause you to die in a remote area, you’re ignoring the fact that all of those things apply to all gasoline powered SUVs and that the failure of a WIN module does not apply to all gasoline powered SUVs. For example, my 4Runner’s battery can die, just like the battery on your Grand Cherokee. But your Grand Cherokee’s WIN module can die, and my 4Runner doesn’t even have a WIN module in the first place. That’s where your slippery slope falls apart.
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  #38  
Old 01-21-2011, 01:11 PM
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Re: !$^@&W%&#*#@^!@^@&% jeep !@^$@^

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Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
Your statement that the issue with the WIN module failing is the same thing as a battery going dead or puncturing the gas tank, radiator hose rupturing etc.. is a logical fallacy at best. While it is true that any of those things can cause you to die in a remote area, you’re ignoring the fact that all of those things apply to all gasoline powered SUVs and that the failure of a WIN module does not apply to all gasoline powered SUVs. For example, my 4Runner’s battery can die, just like the battery on your Grand Cherokee. But your Grand Cherokee’s WIN module can die, and my 4Runner doesn’t even have a WIN module in the first place. That’s where your slippery slope falls apart.
So what logic can we derive from this last bit? That vehicle A has N single points of failure and vehicle B has N+1?

So we with Wk2's have one more way to die in the wilderness than you in your 4runner? Oh boy don't tell my mother I'm taking these extreme risks.

I think the general idea that Mr. Positraction posted was, there are many ways to end up in SOL in a remote area, hundreds of ways easily. Does this add one more? Sure it does. Does it change the fact that you already needed to be prepared for the other several hundreds of ways to end up SOL? Sure doesn't.

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  #39  
Old 01-21-2011, 01:17 PM
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Re: !$^@&W%&#*#@^!@^@&% jeep !@^$@^

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Originally Posted by Nbtstatic View Post
So what logic can we derive from this last bit? That vehicle A has N single points of failure and vehicle B has N+1?

NB
That's exactly correct. And when that +1 is something that can prevent a vehicle from starting without any warning whatsoever, it can be a serious safety issue. I'm not just talking about being out in the wilderness either.

Think about your wife or your daughter in a dark parking lot in a vehicle that won't start. Lots of people buy newer/reliable vehicles just to avoid that kind of thing from happening in the first place. So when I see a couple of guys who have already been stranded in their brand new Jeeps because of a module that failed to boot up, then yes, it's an issue. I'm curious to see if the same thing will happen to other WK2 owners as well. If you want to pretend that it's not an issue, then that's fine. I don't agree, and there are others here who obviously feel the same way.
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  #40  
Old 01-21-2011, 01:26 PM
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Re: !$^@&W%&#*#@^!@^@&% jeep !@^$@^

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Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
Think about your wife or your daughter in a dark parking lot in a vehicle that won't start....
In this scenario, I wouldn't recommend messing with my 115 lb wife.

She'd kick your arse.
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  #41  
Old 01-21-2011, 01:32 PM
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Re: !$^@&W%&#*#@^!@^@&% jeep !@^$@^

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Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
That's exactly correct. And when that +1 is something that can prevent a vehicle from starting without any warning whatsoever, it can be a serious safety issue. I'm not just talking about being out in the wilderness either.

Think about your wife or your daughter in a dark parking lot in a vehicle that won't start. Lots of people buy newer/reliable vehicles just to avoid that kind of thing from happening in the first place. So when I see a couple of guys who have already been stranded in their brand new Jeeps because of a module that failed to boot up, then yes, it's an issue. I'm curious to see if the same thing will happen to other WK2 owners as well. If you want to pretend that it's not an issue, then that's fine. I don't agree, and there are others here who obviously feel the same way.
I never said it wasn't an issue, clearly it is.

I said always be prepared to overcome issues like this, and that any vehicle can leave you stranded.

Just because this vehicle (apparently) adds one more way, to the already long list, doesnt really change much in the big picture.

If I gave you a vehicle and said, "MCSA, this vehicle is very complex, it has 22 different systems that can fail and leave you stranded."

or likewise

"MCSA, this vehicle is very complex, it has 23 different systems that can fail and leave you stranded."

Would your preperations for a remote trip, or even just daily life, be altered in any way? I mean, you're either prepared to be stranded by your vehicle or you aren't, one more wrinkle of complexity isnt going to change that.

Now I'm not saying this problem isnt ridiculous, and shouldnt be addressed by Chrysler. One less way for my Jeep to not start is always a good thing. I'm just saying, from the "omg we're all gonna freeze to death perspective", meh, you should've been prepared.

I had an '08 Silverado strand me several times and get flatbedded to the dealer, with under a thousand miles on it. It operated with a plain old metal key.

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  #42  
Old 01-21-2011, 01:38 PM
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Re: !$^@&W%&#*#@^!@^@&% jeep !@^$@^

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Originally Posted by moosehead View Post
In this scenario, I wouldn't recommend messing with my 115 lb wife.

She'd kick your arse.

Likewise! And you never know, she may or may not be carrying concealed at the time.
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  #43  
Old 01-21-2011, 01:39 PM
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Re: !$^@&W%&#*#@^!@^@&% jeep !@^$@^

Well, all I can say is that I hope they get this sorted out and that we never hear of it happening again. The idea of having a module that needs to boot up seems crazy to me anyway. I mean, seriously, does the WIN module need to load some sort of operating system to function? Why would it even need to boot up?
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:40 PM
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Re: !$^@&W%&#*#@^!@^@&% jeep !@^$@^

So my point about dyring wasn't to be a whiner. Things like the key randomly not working scare the heck out of me for the following reason: It was a literal unknown until some poor guy who started this thread pointed it out.

Further point: The technology is changing so fast that I'm concened about being informed enough to keep up with and know what risks I'm taking. I understand a broken hose and a dead battery....maybe I can even be somewhat prepared for those situations with some extra fluids, duct tape, battery jumper, etc...but it's like we continue to "engineer our ways into corners". We shouldn't take certain components lightly (critical components). Can I keep track of all my risks and take steps to prepare for them? I'm not sure, and that doesn't make me feel as secure.

I never felt this way until I had kids, now my cavalier mindset towards personal and public safety have changed quite a bit.

And as an aside, MrPosiTraction, I *REALLY* hope your job is not one that has to do with releasing products that have any safety risks to the public

-Ryan
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:40 PM
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Re: !$^@&W%&#*#@^!@^@&% jeep !@^$@^

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Originally Posted by moosehead View Post
In this scenario, I wouldn't recommend messing with my 115 lb wife.

She'd kick your arse.
She must be some 115 pounds of fury.
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  #46  
Old 01-21-2011, 01:46 PM
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Re: !$^@&W%&#*#@^!@^@&% jeep !@^$@^

You all do realize that the keyless entry or WIN module is not unique to the WK2, right?

http://www.automotive.com/2010/49/ch...lls/40572.html

Nor is it unique to Chrysler

http://humanfactorsblog.org/2010/01/...ow-what-to-do/

I'm just saying this is an industry wide phenomenon (one that I don't fully understand, was it that difficult to put a key in the ignition?) and this is an example of what can happen with this technology.
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  #47  
Old 01-21-2011, 01:48 PM
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Re: !$^@&W%&#*#@^!@^@&% jeep !@^$@^

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Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
Well, all I can say is that I hope they get this sorted out and that we never hear of it happening again. The idea of having a module that needs to boot up seems crazy to me anyway. I mean, seriously, does the WIN module need to load some sort of operating system to function? Why would it even need to boot up?

I agree, I hope they figure it out.

I wonder about the terminology being used too, reboot? Maybe they mean more of a reset, that would make more sense to me, if the module stops responding and needs a hard reset. Its hard for me also to imagine something booting up. I dono.
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  #48  
Old 01-21-2011, 01:49 PM
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Re: !$^@&W%&#*#@^!@^@&% jeep !@^$@^

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Originally Posted by mjw930 View Post
You all do realize that the keyless entry or WIN module is not unique to the WK2, right?

http://www.automotive.com/2010/49/ch...lls/40572.html

Nor is it unique to Chrysler

http://humanfactorsblog.org/2010/01/...ow-what-to-do/

I'm just saying this is an industry wide phenomenon (one that I don't fully understand, was it that difficult to put a key in the ignition?) and this is an example of what can happen with this technology.
It's definitely not unique to the WK2. I found a thread in the Charger forums where a guy had his replaced three times already.

But I'm not so sure it isn't unique to Chrysler. Just because other cars have passive pushbutton ignitions doesn't necessarily mean that they use a WIN module.
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