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  #61  
Old 09-04-2015, 02:02 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee under investigation

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Originally Posted by bill_de View Post
I thought most cars use electronic shifters, and have for a while. They just don't let it show. Most, not all, like things consistent when the move from vehicle to vehicle.

I'm very happy that the electric steering I have now doesn't feel much different than all the hydraulic systems I've had.

Change is bad. The older you get the badder it gets.
No, not all change is bad. Change when done right is good. For example, GPS, Backup-camera, backup sensors, 8-speed transmission, heated steering wheel (especially in New England), and the materials used for the interior of the Jeeps have improved a lot too...

But yes, the older you get the more change, just for the sake of change, without any major benefit, becomes really irksome...

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  #62  
Old 09-04-2015, 02:27 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee under investigation

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Originally Posted by HFD170 View Post
....I don't get it for the guys that have been driving for 50+ years first off God bless but you should be smart enough to know if it don't work for you don't get it. I don't know just my opinion.

You're in the market for a new vehicle.....you go to the dealer, get into a strange (to you) car. You start it, fiddle with the shifter to get it into gear, and think, "I'm just not familiar with it". You drive the vehicle for 10-15 minutes, but don't have the need to change gears, so you think it's fairly nice, you return to the dealer and park it. Again, you have to fiddle with the shifter, but again, you just think it's due to unfamiliarity.

You buy the vehicle, and 5 months later, you're thinking "I'm STILL fiddling with this **&^@!!## shifter".......




Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkill View Post
....I hate the goddamn shifter. Doesn't mean I would rather be driving a shitbox simply to get a decent shifter instead. Proportionality of tradeoffs applies.
I agree!



Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Hart View Post
No, not all change is bad. Change when done right is good. For example, GPS, Backup-camera, backup sensors, 8-speed transmission, heated steering wheel (especially in New England), and the materials used for the interior of the Jeeps have improved a lot too...

But yes, the older you get the more change, just for the sake of change, without any major benefit, becomes really irksome...

Right on!!




I've been away from this discussion for a couple of days. Glad to see I'm not alone, in thinking this shifter is somewhat less than ideal. Too bad a Hurst shifter isn't an option.....
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  #63  
Old 09-04-2015, 03:02 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee under investigation

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Originally Posted by Benn0 View Post
I don't mind it, trying to shift between D and R when doing 3 point turns can be annoying. And I'd prefer to use the shifter to manually select a gear rather than the paddles. So it could improve.

The new shifter sounds better.
I've used the manu-matics with the console shifters and I hate them. If I don't have a clutch, there's no reason to have a stick shifter to change gears manually.

With the paddles, I can shift up and down as needed without taking my hands off the wheel. Plus, the stick shifter on the Jeep is far from precise.

Having said that, I wish they would do a couple things to improve the paddles:

- Have them engage and disengage by pressing both paddles together, rather than just the + paddle. That would prevent the occasional accidental activation if you bump the + button. I've become aware that it could happen after doing it a couple times when steering in reverse, so I'm always watching for it. I can see how it can happen, though. Also, with the double press to disengage, you won't get that "Shift Not Allowed" message when you're trying to go back to auto mode. It doesn't hurt anything, but it's annoying to be yelled at by the car for something it thinks I'm doing when I'm not.

- Have a way to flip them out of the way if you don't want them. Some people hate them and I get that. If you could just pull them out to release them, then flip them backward out of sight, that would keep them out of the way of those who want nothing to do with them.

Now, I wouldn't mind the option to also be able to shift with the center shifter, especially in those times when starting off on a sharp right turn in manual mode when I can't hit the shift + button. The alternative would be for the system to be smart enough to know that when the wheel is turned sharply and you aren't aggressively accelerating, it's OK to automatically bump up to 2nd.
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  #64  
Old 09-04-2015, 03:17 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee under investigation

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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
I've used the manu-matics with the console shifters and I hate them. If I don't have a clutch, there's no reason to have a stick shifter to change gears manually.
I have one in my 2012 and whenever I'm in Marin county it comes in handy on one hill on the freeway. I can maintain downhill speed if I put the Jeep gear on 4 instead of auto and I rarely, if ever, step on the brake. Everyone else around me is either flying down the hill at over 80 mph or hitting on their brakes constantly because they can't maintain speed.

So, a stick shifter does come in handy.
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  #65  
Old 09-04-2015, 04:33 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee under investigation

I don't have a dog in the fight. I own an 11 GC. However the electro-shifter is no more or less intuitive than a BMW or Mercedes electro-shifter. More than likely this is still some hand me down Mercedes tech. I install breathalyzers for people who get DUI's so I drive everything from POS junkers to high end cars. Most luxury vehicle manufacturers do not take an intuitive approach to anything they build and Jeep is trying very hard to place the GC in the luxury SUV market.
Heck if you have a powerless BMW, in order to get it into neutral, you have to dismantle part of the center console and jam a screw driver down into the shifter to get it into neutral. They even supply you with a screw driver in the tool kit specifically for that!
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  #66  
Old 09-05-2015, 09:20 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee under investigation

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Originally Posted by trekbuddy View Post
Heck if you have a powerless BMW, in order to get it into neutral, you have to dismantle part of the center console and jam a screw driver down into the shifter to get it into neutral. They even supply you with a screw driver in the tool kit specifically for that!
The Jeep procedure is somewhat similar. And they don't supply a tool to do it with either.
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  #67  
Old 09-05-2015, 10:18 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee under investigation

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Originally Posted by overlandguy View Post
Let's not blame Chrysler for the design. It was in use before they put in in their vehicles as evident on the 2011 Audi A8. Most likely they were trying
to imitate a luxury car brand.

I think you got it wrong mate. The Jeep and the AUDI use the same basic design of the ZF 8 speed transmission. While undoubtedly gear selection controls could probably be accomplished from a tablet touch screen or through voice controls, I am certain that individual car manufacturers are offered bundled solutions which not only vary in price but also vary by design and packaging requirements, according to ZF's own development strategies. Dodge Durango came up with the rotary dial for its 8 speed, so I suppose they imitated Jaguar and Range Rover :-)

Maybe the classic gated design that people got used to is not a feature of this transmission type because the driver doesn't mechanically move anything inside the transmission.

Cars | 8-Speed Automatic Transmission - ZF Friedrichshafen AG

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_8HP_transmission#Audi
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  #68  
Old 09-06-2015, 02:37 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee under investigation

what about sequentials?

I wouldn't expect a huge investigation at Kawasaki every time I miss 2nd and hit neutral instead on my bike.

It's not their fault that the positive neutral finder works, and that I wasn't paying attention when shifting from 1-N-2 at low rpms... Just have to kick up firmly, and feel the gear click into place.
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  #69  
Old 09-06-2015, 04:20 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee under investigation

Ok, user error today by me.
I was in a hurry to back out of the driveway. Shifted and confirmed "R" was lit up...took a couple of times to get it there (car was still it startup mode)
anyway, confirmed it was in reverse and punched it.
Lol, due to delay in startup mode, when I punched it, tranny had shifted into drive and almost took out my garage door. GF says wtf did you do that for...opps
Lesson learned, one cannot start up and be moving ASAP....dont use this vehicle for a bank robbery get away car...lol
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  #70  
Old 09-07-2015, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathantw View Post

I have one in my 2012 and whenever I'm in Marin county it comes in handy on one hill on the freeway. I can maintain downhill speed if I put the Jeep gear on 4 instead of auto and I rarely, if ever, step on the brake. Everyone else around me is either flying down the hill at over 80 mph or hitting on their brakes constantly because they can't maintain speed.

So, a stick shifter does come in handy.
You missed my point.

I was saying you don't need a console shifter to do that. The paddles work fine for that and you can keep both hands on the wheel.

The only advantage of the console shifter is that it prevents the issue of the shift controls being out of reach during hard turns, such as a sharp right when starting off.

My solution is to simply go into auto mode for those situations. Any other time, the paddles work great.

Why have to reach down to a shifter when the controls can be right on the wheel?
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  #71  
Old 09-07-2015, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrawn86 View Post
what about sequentials?

I wouldn't expect a huge investigation at Kawasaki every time I miss 2nd and hit neutral instead on my bike.

It's not their fault that the positive neutral finder works, and that I wasn't paying attention when shifting from 1-N-2 at low rpms... Just have to kick up firmly, and feel the gear click into place.
Maybe not, but I absolutely hold the brake firmly before releasing the clutch when I need to get off with the motor running. It only took one false neutral to make me not trust that light.

If that sensor can misreport being out of gear, why is it so hard to believe an entirely electronic system couldn't falsely report being in park?

Is it worth a lawsuit? That's for the court system to decide. However, if there's even a small chance this problem really exists, FCA has an obligation to look into it and fix it if they find an issue.

The problem is, like many manufacturers these days, their response is always to deny everything until forced to confront it.

That's where the lawsuit comes in. It shouldn't take that, though.

Think of it this way: has FCA acknowledged the 8 speed transmission issues? How many people are still being told it's "normal"? How many people have reported being unable to shift into ir out of park at all?
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  #72  
Old 09-07-2015, 04:27 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee under investigation

"Shift by wire." I like that. More than a few times I have opened the drivers door only to have the car moving forward. Almost hit a few cars in the process. Or I will shift it to park, look up and see the back up camera on.

It takes some time and focus to learn the system. It is one reason why my wife won't drive my '14 JGC.

Interesting question, whether operator error counts as a design flaw. Making a car too complicated for the average driver.



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