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  #13  
Old 07-14-2011, 02:19 PM
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Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer

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Originally Posted by mjw930 View Post
I'm hoping the service manager at my dealer understands the differences and my expectation that I always have the latest software installed regardless whether I have noticed a problem or not.
Makes sense but based on the experiences noted on this and other message boards that's not the case with Jeep/Chrysler...

There is at least one other TSB that I think applies to my Jeep (the one about the gas tank sloshing) but the sound doesn't bother me at this point. Guessing that one is the type that will only be taken care of if the customer complains.
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  #14  
Old 07-14-2011, 02:45 PM
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Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer

I had the seat squeek issue..told my dealer about it..they searched the tsb database with my VIN...nothing showed up. I showed them the TSB to fix that issue..and they ordered the parts for me.
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Old 07-14-2011, 03:11 PM
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Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer

If you bring a TSB in, you're already a step ahead of the average customer. My dealer was shocked the first time I brought one in and its been smooth sailing with them ever since.
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  #16  
Old 07-14-2011, 03:14 PM
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Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer

I just brought my Jeep in yesterday for it's first oil change. I had also noticed your issue with the dead spots in throttle response and also my radio preset button likes to skip around. When I made the appointment I let them know I wanted them to check out two issues and I think a TSB applied.

I brought in the TSB (18-012-11) and had my symptoms highlighted.

When picking it up, they said they flashed the PCM and they couldn't duplicate the radio issue but had encountered that problem before so they went ahead and ordered a new switch for it.

Overall good experience.
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  #17  
Old 07-14-2011, 04:08 PM
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Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer

Without actually reading each TSB, is there a way to determine which ones definitely do or don't apply to you simply by entering your VIN? The jeep.com owners' section doesn't seem to have that, and you'd think that it would be able to do a simple check like that.
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Old 07-14-2011, 04:12 PM
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Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer

My Chrysler Jeep dealers have always applied TSBs and usually tell me about them. I've owned Chrysler products off and on since 1997.

Unless it is a safety issue or something required, I do not necessarily want everything applied to my car. If I do not have the symptom, don't mess with it. I have not experienced any shudder or harsh shifting or bluetooth streaming issues

We had numerous problems with an Acura we long ago sold. They'd apply all sorts of software "upgrades," wiping out data, bricking the FOBs once, and at least twice I remember saying "but we don't have that. . ." I do not know if it made the problems worse, but it certainly did not fix anything that I needed fixed.
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Old 07-14-2011, 04:29 PM
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Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer

I just want to pare down the list ahead of time and see which ones theoretically apply to me. That way I'm reading The Old Man and the Sea instead of War and Peace.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:29 AM
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Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer

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Originally Posted by DarthPiper View Post
Without actually reading each TSB, is there a way to determine which ones definitely do or don't apply to you simply by entering your VIN? The jeep.com owners' section doesn't seem to have that, and you'd think that it would be able to do a simple check like that.

Darth,

A TSB isn't a recall, so it doesn't apply to every vehicle within a range. That's why you can't just search by VIN.

TSB stands for "Technical Service Bulletin" and is just that -- a Bulletin. It's basically Chrysler telling their dealers "Hey, we've seen a bunch of vehicles with problem <x>. If you get vehicles like that, we recommend you do <y>."

So, it only applies to vehicles which have certain problems. If you don't have the problem, even if your vehicle is within the VIN range, the TSB isn't relevant.

B
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:36 AM
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Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer

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Originally Posted by bpmcgee View Post
Darth,

A TSB isn't a recall, so it doesn't apply to every vehicle within a range. That's why you can't just search by VIN.

TSB stands for "Technical Service Bulletin" and is just that -- a Bulletin. It's basically Chrysler telling their dealers "Hey, we've seen a bunch of vehicles with problem <x>. If you get vehicles like that, we recommend you do <y>."

So, it only applies to vehicles which have certain problems. If you don't have the problem, even if your vehicle is within the VIN range, the TSB isn't relevant.

B
Good point...but what about TSBs like 18-001-11 which update the ESC? That seems like a good one to have because IIRC it addresses some emergency maneuvering problems that Consumer Reports reported on its initial test drive. I have not seen any problems but I have not pushed the vehicle to the point where the ESC has engaged...
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:41 AM
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Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer

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Originally Posted by bpmcgee View Post
Darth,

A TSB isn't a recall, so it doesn't apply to every vehicle within a range. That's why you can't just search by VIN.

TSB stands for "Technical Service Bulletin" and is just that -- a Bulletin. It's basically Chrysler telling their dealers "Hey, we've seen a bunch of vehicles with problem <x>. If you get vehicles like that, we recommend you do <y>."

So, it only applies to vehicles which have certain problems. If you don't have the problem, even if your vehicle is within the VIN range, the TSB isn't relevant.

B
I understand what your saying, but the reality is that for most software related electronic control types of things the problems that these TSBs address will be in every car within a build date range. An example of this is poor transmission gear selection and throttle response. Every single vehicle that has the software on it that the TSB addresses will have the problem even though some owners may not be aware of it. Another example is the stereo bluetooth streaming from the 430N, every one of them built had the issue until the TSB resolved it. Mechanical failures on the other hand will only be seen on certain vehicles but the nature of software and electronic controls is that their behavior is identical across all vehicles within the same build date range containing the same software. The only grey area is when software updates are made to address certain mechanical problems that only occur on some vehicles (like the shudder problem). I really believe that most of the software updates should just be offered to anyone that wants them just like they are for your smartphone when the manufacturer fixes problems. I understand that the way I'm looking at this is a complete paradigm shift from how manufacturers and dealerships have traditionally viewed this issue, but at this point I think that they need to change with the times because of all the electronics in modern vehicles. Basically, they are just doing things the way that the always have, but without really ever asking themselves why, it's a huge problem in many large companies.

What they should really do is just build WiFi into their cars so that they can save a ton of money be releasing SOME updates for self installation at home. I know that there are issues with doing it this way, but it would save a great deal of money and time, and I honestly believe that they would sell more cars if they did it. For me, it would be a huge selling point. I hate leaving my car at the dealership all day so that someone can spend five minutes flashing the computer, imagine if you had to do that with your phone by leaving it at AT&T or Verizon.
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  #23  
Old 07-19-2011, 12:27 PM
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Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer

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Originally Posted by vikingdave View Post
I understand what your saying, but the reality is that for most software related electronic control types of things the problems that these TSBs address will be in every car within a build date range. An example of this is poor transmission gear selection and throttle response. Every single vehicle that has the software on it that the TSB addresses will have the problem even though some owners may not be aware of it. Another example is the stereo bluetooth streaming from the 430N, every one of them built had the issue until the TSB resolved it. Mechanical failures on the other hand will only be seen on certain vehicles but the nature of software and electronic controls is that their behavior is identical across all vehicles within the same build date range containing the same software. The only grey area is when software updates are made to address certain mechanical problems that only occur on some vehicles (like the shudder problem). I really believe that most of the software updates should just be offered to anyone that wants them just like they are for your smartphone when the manufacturer fixes problems. I understand that the way I'm looking at this is a complete paradigm shift from how manufacturers and dealerships have traditionally viewed this issue, but at this point I think that they need to change with the times because of all the electronics in modern vehicles. Basically, they are just doing things the way that the always have, but without really ever asking themselves why, it's a huge problem in many large companies.

What they should really do is just build WiFi into their cars so that they can save a ton of money be releasing SOME updates for self installation at home. I know that there are issues with doing it this way, but it would save a great deal of money and time, and I honestly believe that they would sell more cars if they did it. For me, it would be a huge selling point. I hate leaving my car at the dealership all day so that someone can spend five minutes flashing the computer, imagine if you had to do that with your phone by leaving it at AT&T or Verizon.
Well, in general I agree with you.

If you were to ask an expert in customer satisfaction, though, he would say we're wrong. Psychology is weird -- If the owner hasn't NOTICED the problem, then fixing it will actually decrease his satisfaction. Ignorance really IS bliss. So if there's a problem with iPhone sync issues on the radio, but the customer never gets an iPhone, it's actually worse to fix the problem than to let it linger -- if you're measuring your results by customer satisfaction versus "rightness."

B
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  #24  
Old 07-19-2011, 03:02 PM
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Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer

i know this shouldnt affect the new rigs
but do TSBs fixed for free when out of warranty? seeing as it is a big enough problem
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