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  #25  
Old 04-11-2011, 06:39 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

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Originally Posted by jgc4ever View Post
Just don't gloss over the fact that Chrysler designed and assembled the vehicle with all of these problems. Several people have a shudder problem, it sounds pretty bad, and it's never been fixed. Stalling issues in the WK were never fixed or even acknowledged. Water leaks in the WK and WK2. On and on and on the list of problems and poor customer service from many Jeep dealers and from Chysler Jeep itself.

I was dead set on buying a new WK2, but it's just not worth the risk of the problems or the "unable to replicate" and never getting it fixed and being without a new expensive vehicle.

A Porsche Cayenne will be my next SUV, I just won't be able to afford all of the options but what's important is the way a vehicle drives and reliability.
http://omaha.porschedealer.com/Cayen...95/special.php

I feel very much the same way you do!



I really want to like and trust the new JGC. But I've been researching the issues with these brand new vehicles and I'm not liking what I'm seeing. Initial QC is lacking and there are several issues (Shudder, Key Fob Failure, QL Leaks, etc) being reported by new owners.

I understand that any brand new vehicle might have certain "growing pains". However, I'm a single guy with a single vehicle who drives to work. Reliability is VERY IMPORTANT to me. I had hoped the the bankruptcy and restructuring had forced Jeep and Chrysler to vastly improve the quality and reliability of their vehicles.

So far, it doesn't look like they've learned much at all.

I'm now forced to make some hard decisions.

1. Wait for the 2012 JGC and hope they figure out all of the QC issues (damn unlikely). Purchasing one of these vehicles right now sounds more like a leap of faith than a sound purchase decision.

2. Abandon the WK2 and purchase something else. The only other vehicles that offers the same kind of off and on road ability are the Porsche Cayenne and the Range Rover Sport. Both of these SUVs cost significantly more than even a fully loaded WK2. The other vehicle choice would be the Acura MDX. That SUV however doesn't have much in the offroad ability area.

This REALLY pisses me off. The WK2 would be an outstanding vehicle in almost all regards IF they didn't suffer from what seems to be the usual Jeep/Chrysler poor quality.

Please don't label me a troll or Jeep basher. I really, really want(ed) to own a Overland V8 4x4 (Mineral Gray) as my next vehicle. Reading about these problems has caused me to delay and/or cancel this decision.

My current vehicle (2005 Toyota 4runner) has never had an electrical or mechanical problem requiring a trip to the dealership. Its only issue is a stinky exhaust (sulfur smell). Maybe I'm spoiled becuase of that.
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  #26  
Old 04-12-2011, 03:28 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

Armory would be the place to go.
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  #27  
Old 04-12-2011, 04:50 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

I received a call from my case manager today that the rear window arrived at the dealership (4 weeks later). She said the service manager would be contacting me. He called about 30 minutes later to schedule an appointment. He also asked if I could drop it off at a time when he could take a drive with me to feel/understand the shudder. I'm going to drop it up late tomorrow afternoon.

So at least some progress. But there were several calls not returned to me in this process. Its better than nothing.

I'll post how I make out with all of this.
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  #28  
Old 04-12-2011, 05:41 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

I think you've been a good customer with reasonable expectations. Yelling and name calling does not help you.
I like how you ranked the jeep on the survey, good idea, it got you noticed.
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Old 04-12-2011, 05:58 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

Quote:
Originally Posted by litespeedz View Post
I received a call from my case manager today that the rear window arrived at the dealership (4 weeks later). She said the service manager would be contacting me. He called about 30 minutes later to schedule an appointment. He also asked if I could drop it off at a time when he could take a drive with me to feel/understand the shudder. I'm going to drop it up late tomorrow afternoon.

So at least some progress. But there were several calls not returned to me in this process. Its better than nothing.

I'll post how I make out with all of this.
I went through this process of dealing with case managers on my previous wk2 and what I could tell is they really don't do anything except listen to what you have to say and call the dealer for you. The service manager needs to be the one making the calls they are the ones that can contact the district managers at chrysler. Customers do not normally talk directly to these people from my experience. From my experience all customer service does is listen and say I'm sorry your having these problems.
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  #30  
Old 04-13-2011, 08:05 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

I met the Service Manager this afternoon. He was very professional and let me show him all of my concerns. I showed him the window and how the misalignment of the window had pushed the lower right corner of the tailgate into the bumper. He said that was a new one for him but they would take care of it. I showed him how it made scratches on the pillar and top of the bumper. He also said they would fix the rattle in the replaced blower motor.

The worst part about this was the car did not shudder as it usually does during the drive. I was so embarassed. There are few times where the car shifts great but most of the time it doesn't. I took it out to run errands during my lunch break and the shifting felt awful. A few hours later and it was fine. I can't figure that out. When my girlfriend picked me up she was shocked it didn't do the shudder. She's experienced it a lot.

He said he believes that it has happened to me but he said that some of what I am experiencing could be normal for the vehicle. It did small little blips but I told him if that was all it was I could have lived with it. It still felt rough but it didn't skip like it usually does as it tries to find what I presume is second gear. It did do the low rpm shudder that I have felt at speed 45-65mph. He seemed to think that was normal. He used terms like shudder and unable to find a gear on his own. It made me feel like either he had heard similar complaints or he had been briefed on them by Chrysler. He said his plan was to drive mine and some others to see how they differ. He asked questions about my driving style and my previous car. I thought it was interesting because he highlighted the differences between my sedan and my Jeep. I told him I was aware of those and that I can typically discern normal vehicle operation and problems with the drivetrain. If what happens with my car (even though it didn't right then) is normal I am not sure this would be the car for me. I don't think a car should buck violently when it searches for a gear at a downshift. One thing to note: he seemed surprised that I ditched an Acura TL to go to this Jeep. He said that the Hemi and Multi-speed transmission are basically bulletproof but Acura's are some of the best designed precision vehicles.

I know that something is not normal with it and I hope they find something because right now I feel like I am taking crazy pills. I am at least taking solace in the face that a few other people have seen it and/or driven it and experienced it, even after the axle isolator was replaced. Hopefully they find something tomorrow. But at least the rear window will be fixed and I'll be able to use my trunk again.
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  #31  
Old 04-14-2011, 03:17 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

Quote:
Originally Posted by litespeedz View Post
The worst part about this was the car did not shudder as it usually does during the drive.
I appreciate all that has been said, and I fully agree... consider the following please:

- If it didnt do it for you, there is a possibility that it is actually not doing it for these techs... furthermore they dont pay their bills by driving your vehicle around unpaid for 2 hours trying to feel it happen. I am NOT saying its not happening, but an intermittant issue with something like a shudder can be tough to diagnose if its doing it all the time let alone if its not doing it for the tech. Its still not ok that you are paying for this issue and I am not defending the dealer pushing off a problem, I am just saying be open minded, and I am sure your patience has been appreciated!

- Thousands of these cars have been built, stuff gets missed, a bolt gets cross threaded, connectors dont get plugged in, seams dont get sealed. There is no excuse for these quality control issues, but again consider, of the thousands of these vehicle made and sold, there are going to be some that are not 100%, Something got overlooked, forgotten or skipped. Again its not an excuse, but its odds. There is not ANY manufacturer whom makes a perfect car line with no cars with faults or missed things. There are better (duh) but its luck of the draw and unfourtunatly this was not a good draw for you.

I apologize for you experience with Jeep, being nothing more than a tech for this company, I feel for you and wish everything could be perfect. I hope these issues will be resolved for you and the rest of your experience with jeep (no matter how long or short you are with this one) is much better!
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Old 04-14-2011, 05:56 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

Update:

The service manager called me today as promised. They are keeping my car one more day. He said there is a programming issue with the car. He said they took freeze frame diagnostics and sent them to Detroit. They are keeping my car overnight because they are hopeful that Engineering in Detroit will have a new program to "tighten up" the drivetrain components on the vehicle tomorrow. I asked if they saw what I was talking about. He said they saw some things that required the freeze frame diagnostics. He said they have more issues with the 3.6L engine than the 5.7L. He then said he mis-spoke and meant to say complaints.

I have to say that the Service Manager has really stepped up. He is making things happen and at least giving me some feedback. He is a little cryptic in his responses (that may be because if it is a programming thing he doesn't know specifics). I would love to hear details because I am obviously concerned. Knowing the details of what is wrong and how they plan to fix it just makes me feel more comfortable.

So it took a lot of pushing and prodding from multiple angles to make things move but they are finally giving this some attention. I am not sure it should have necessarily taken this much effort on my part but at least they are making an attempt to address this. And at least they went through what sounds like a very thorough diagnostic and found something along the lines of what I was saying.

I am assuming the rear window / tailgate and blower rattle were fixed. We really only discussed the transmission. I'll post further updates as they become available. Thanks again to all for your feedback.
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  #33  
Old 04-14-2011, 06:08 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2005JGC View Post
I appreciate all that has been said, and I fully agree... consider the following please:

- If it didnt do it for you, there is a possibility that it is actually not doing it for these techs... furthermore they dont pay their bills by driving your vehicle around unpaid for 2 hours trying to feel it happen. I am NOT saying its not happening, but an intermittant issue with something like a shudder can be tough to diagnose if its doing it all the time let alone if its not doing it for the tech. Its still not ok that you are paying for this issue and I am not defending the dealer pushing off a problem, I am just saying be open minded, and I am sure your patience has been appreciated!

- Thousands of these cars have been built, stuff gets missed, a bolt gets cross threaded, connectors dont get plugged in, seams dont get sealed. There is no excuse for these quality control issues, but again consider, of the thousands of these vehicle made and sold, there are going to be some that are not 100%, Something got overlooked, forgotten or skipped. Again its not an excuse, but its odds. There is not ANY manufacturer whom makes a perfect car line with no cars with faults or missed things. There are better (duh) but its luck of the draw and unfourtunatly this was not a good draw for you.

I apologize for you experience with Jeep, being nothing more than a tech for this company, I feel for you and wish everything could be perfect. I hope these issues will be resolved for you and the rest of your experience with jeep (no matter how long or short you are with this one) is much better!
As soon as it didn't do it I had this, "Oh crap, they are never going to believe me," thought. But I talked him through all of the things I see/feel. When he started using terms like shudder and jumping a gear, I was convinced he had heard it before. I think he knew that because of the big deal I was making about it I wasn't making it up. I have been really careful to be respectful and polite, no matter how frustrated I am. I just don't believe in yelling at people for things that are beyond their control. I am very cognizant of the fact that these guys are working with the tools that Chrysler is giving them (sounds like not much sometimes). My biggest beef with them is the lack of communication, which is better since the Service Manager is taking the lead.

I actually really appreciate your insight. I might never see. Just so you know, I spoke to the Tech who worked on my car a couple of weeks ago. He said he insisted to Chrysler it was a programming problem and not a problem with the axle isolators. Low and behold it sounds like he was right....
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  #34  
Old 04-15-2011, 04:52 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

Update 4/15:

Chrysler asked the Service Manager to gather more freeze frame data today. The service manager told me he has now felt several examples of intermittent shutter and vibrations in the car that he believes are not normal. He said Chrysler is analyzing all of this new data. They have to wait for Chrysler to make a recommendation as to what they should do next.

The dealer arranged a rental car for me today so I am at least no longer without transportation. It has been a rough few days.

So they have verified something, still unclear as to what, but it sounds like the analysis is very thorough. I am still hopeful they can figure something out and if possible it will help others with similar problems. The service manager said he wants to see this through so he set me up with a rental so that they could continue to work on the car.

I'll keep everyone posted as more information becomes available.
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Old 04-16-2011, 08:28 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

Update 4/16/11:

I have become a pretty tolerant and understanding person over the past few years. Working in small companies as a Sales and Marketing professional kinda forces you there. Otherwise, high blood pressure and a constant state of stress will put you in an early grave. Today I experienced the worst example of customer relations at Saratoga Chrysler Jeep Dodge in Saratoga Springs, NY.

As you know my car has been in the shop since Wednesday evening. I had some stuff in the car that I needed to get out of it for the rest of the weekend (a NYS trailer registration/inspection, running shoes, and paperwork). I went to the dealership around 3:00pm to retrieve my items from the car. After checking the lot my Overland was nowhere to be found. I went in and asked the sales people if they could let me into the shop to get my car. It wasn't there. They told me that because the car is having drivability issues someone probably took my car home for the weekend to collect additional data. They asked if I had been notified of this. I had not. I asked to speak with the General Manager, Dan.

If you read my first post you know that I left Dan a message about a week and a half ago asking him to call me to discuss my experience with the dealership. In the voicemail I told him that my experience was unsatisfactory and he should know I am actively steering people away from this dealership. My tone was very unemotional and matter of fact. (Since then the Service Manager has stepped up big time. So much so that I was considering leaving Dan another message about his above and beyond attitude. The exception to this being my car disappeared and nobody could tell me where it is). Dan never called me back. I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he was on vacation or unreachable.

As soon as I asked for Dan someone on their way out of the dealership turned and looked me. He told me, "I don't have time for you." Then he turned around and said, "What's your last name?" I told him. He said, "Oh, you're the guy that called me last week. A word of advice, don't start out a conversation telling someone that could help you that you are actively steering people away from their dealership. I don't have time for you." I was in shock. The General Manager of a dealership doesn't have time for customers? Even if I went into the dealership acting like a raving lunatic (rather than a rational adult as I have) wouldn't he want to know what I was so upset about? If he's angry that I am encouraging people to steer clear of Saratoga Chrysler wouldn't he want to find out why and do everything within his power to turn me into a source of referrals? As a Sales Manager, if one of my sales reps ever told a customer they don't have time for them I would fire them on the spot. If an employee who does not report to me ever said something like that to a customer I would try to get them fired. If a customer called me and told me they are telling business associates to do business elsewhere I would drop whatever I was doing to understand why and try to address it. There are different ways of doing business, but in my professional life I subscribe to the idea that the customer is always right. It is unfathomable to me that someone with such a low regard for customers (especially a client that purchased one of the most expensive cars on their lot) could be tasked with running a business.

I have no idea where my car is, who is driving it, how far they are driving it, what they are doing with it, and when it will be back in my possession. Based on the brief treatment from the General Manager and the unexpected (and not permitted) disappearance of my car, I am very nervous about trusting anyone at this dealership to work on this car. I now feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. It is going to be difficult to get out of this car and probably impossible to get another dealership to pick up this case.

I view the dealership as representatives of Chrysler. I hope that someone from Chrysler is reading this and becomes aware of how important customer relations are at the dealerships AND at the corporate level. I have not decided exactly how I am going to proceed but I plan to escalate this as much as possible.
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  #36  
Old 04-16-2011, 08:51 PM
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Find out who owns that dealership and go above the sales manager's head. I can tell you that my friend who owns a dealership might not know about these types of problems but he would want to and would probably fire that guy.
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