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  #49  
Old 04-18-2011, 08:13 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

The more I read about this the more I would take it another dealer if it were me. Yours must be an early build, the TSB for the module update has been out since July or August I believe. This should have been the first thing they checked and they can do this by plugging it into a computer. They don't need to drive it for a weekend and they don't need chrysler to tell them to do it. The fact that they didn't check for TSB updates the first time you brought it in for the concern is ridiculous. The general manager should have called you back to find out what the problem is and how he can get it corrected. It sounds like he doesn't care anything about trying to make a customer happy. In my opinion you are giving way way too much credit to the service dept. Chrysler has a tsb out for this concern, it should have taken 5 minutes to figure it out if that the problem. It sounds like he took and drove your vehicle for a weekend for no reason. TSB 21-004-10 totally ridiculous this was not the very frist thing they checked.
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  #50  
Old 04-18-2011, 08:17 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

I also once had a new car like that -- my first new car, no less -- many years back. It, too, was a Chrysler product, and put me off their stuff for a number of years until we sprung for the GC we now own. That one's been a great vehicle, even if the transmission died prematurely.

Until Michael Karesh and CR put out their repair statistics we won't really know how the WK2 is faring overall. CR is just now in the process of gathering reader feedback on car repairs, and Karesh should have something up by the next quarter. So, figure nearly half a year before we really know what's what, and even then the data will apply largely to early production. My guess is, even then, it will show that you got a runt from a generally good litter.

Anyhow, here's hoping your GC's shakedown cruise and Excedrin headaches are behind you, and sunny uplands lie ahead!
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  #51  
Old 04-19-2011, 06:44 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

Quote:
Originally Posted by litespeedz View Post
Bottom Line: Where's the "undo" button; I wish I hadn't bought this car. I would never buy another car from this dealership and would not recommend anyone else do so. I might give the Service Manager a shot again but I would always be concerned about the two at the top. I will probably never buy another Chrysler product again. It would be great if someone would take a look at this situation from start to finish and try to do something to make this right (in my world that is exactly what I would do). Even with a fixed car supposedly on the way I have endured far more than any one person should reasonably have to. Perhaps my expectations are simply too high for the new Chrysler.
I believe New York has a Lemon Law.

I beleive your problems show your Jeep is a Lemon. And I believe that if the vehicle is in the shop for more than 30 days out of a 45 day period, it becomes a lemon. So refuse to take the vehicle back until everything is fixed. Then after 30 days, file a complaint under the Lemon law and Force them to buy it back!

Here is a link with some info (unverified by me): http://www.carlemon.com/lemon/NY_law.html

And here is another:
http://www.ag.ny.gov/bureaus/consume...factsheet.html

I'd also suggest doing a Google search on the specific Lemon Laws.
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  #52  
Old 04-20-2011, 02:39 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

The biggest problem is humans are human. I am a guy that regularly takes situations up the, ahem, anus... Simply because I know if I escalate the situation it will just make my end goal harder to atain.

Example: It took me 6 months and kind call after kind call to get a 600 dollar core back on an engine. As expected it finally took a demand letter, and the owner (whom was very politely pushing me off week after week) clamed up and walked away from me mid conversation when I served him with the letter and had him read it so I knew we were on the same page.

If you were dealing with robots whom interpreted profanity and yelling as "devote more time to making this customer happy" that would be one thing... when in reality they are humans, people with bills, stress, nagging wife, crap to do at home, screaming kids, a boss that demands more money be deposited into his pocket by taking it out of the techs and customers pockets while somehow manage to keep smiles on their faces as their accounts are being raped, then enter upset customer into the situation and it can be the straw that broke the camels back some times. Im not saying its ethical or even moral or justifying it in any way, but its human nature. People get overwhelmed.

All the people saying "I would have been screaming"... your screaming will regularly just provoke worse service, its one thing to be upset and sit down with a one on one with a gm or service manager. Be honest, let them know that you know they are in a hard spot too, but your the one paying the bill on the thing and its getting to be an overwhelming issue for you... If you can sit down in a private one on one or one on 2 with the owner of the company and a manager, I can promise they will have a much greater respect for you and you are someone they would want to keep as a customer. Furthermore when the sit down is over everyone leaves with a better taste in their mouth.

Calling and flipping out just brings out the worst in humans. I dont know a worse way to get what you want from someone... especially when they legally have no obligation to you, maybe ethically and morally, but they have no binding contract with you so THEY have the upper hand....

Just my .02 on all these comments about "I would have..." yes, you would have made the situation worse for yourself

And to Joalches, There are thousands and thousands of these on the road, your on a forum where people go to find out whats normal and whats wrong with their car. There are many people whom have made the same statement as you and the threads explode with people SUPER happy with their purchase, and have had no issues. I said it before in this thread, every manufacturer has bum cars, it happens when you have THOUSANDS of mechanical pieces trying to work in unison. We have a customer whom bought a used r/t magnum from us, super cool guy, he was telling us the car he had before was an escalade that was in the shop 6 months of the first year he had it... he swore he would NEVER buy a cadillac again... It happens.
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  #53  
Old 04-20-2011, 04:39 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

So I went to pick up my Jeep today. They were good enough to clean out some of the sand/salt on my Weathertech liners for me. It was a rough winter in upstate NY. The service manager said they tested it it and everything checked out. He said they had done everything they could so if this doesn't fix it they are out of ideas.

I pulled out, got down the road, and felt a few rough-ish shifts but shrugged it off. To get back to the highway I have to go through a school zone where the speed goes from 40mph to 30 mph then back to 40mph. After the school zone I decided to punch it to finally feel what the car would do with the right DTCM in it. The thing shuddered as bad if not worse than ever. I backed off and tried it again only to have the same shudder. I am so disappointed. I really thought this whole thing might finally be over.

I turned around and brought the car back. The Service Manager was not there but the Service Rep I had been dealing with originally put be back in the rental car. He said this rarely happens but once in a while they get one that just can't be fixed. I called the Service Manager and left a voicemail late today but did not hear back from him yet.

The car has been in the shop for 14 days and NYS Lemon Law requires 30 days in the shop. Otherwise, the manufacturer gets 4 attempts to fix a problem in NYS. The first two times I reported it no attempts were made to repair it. This is technically their 2nd attempt, unless you count the ESC / Drivability flash they performed which is also supposed to help shudder. At best I need one more failed attempt.

I am going to ask the Service Manager to put me in contact with the Zone Manager. I do not believe he wants to keep spending time on this, I cannot be in vehicle limbo like this any longer, and I am just fed up with the whole situation. Enough is enough! I don't think I even want a replacement. Just give me my money back so I can go get something else. I won't be comfortable in a new one because I will never know what caused this thing to do what it does.

Other than that I am out of ideas but also just exhausted from this whole process. Buying a new car just shouldn't be like this. I am pretty sure I could not even trade this thing in because whoever I bring it too is going to see the entire vehicle history report and run as fast as they can in the other direction.

I hope he calls me back tomorrow with a plan that aligns with where my head is at with this car.
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  #54  
Old 04-20-2011, 05:06 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

I have to say again I think I would take it to another dealer. This shop you are dealing with doesn't have a clue. It took them how long to come up with the software fix? The first time you rolled in with it they should have done that first. That is what a TSB is for if someone comes in with this complaint this is the fix. Your problem is probably torque converter related as that is what it sounds like with the shudder through the drivetrain, but this shop you are dealing with would never be able to figure that out if they needed chrysler to tell them to an 8 month old TSB. They say they are out of ideas, sounds to me like they didn't have any ideas to begin with.
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Old 04-20-2011, 05:34 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

When I talk to him tomorrow I'm going to ask if he thinks its time to get the Zone Manager involved. I'll also nicely ask if the GM and Owner are tired of him spending time on my car and if I should be thinking about taking it elsewhere. I think they overlooked the TSB for so long because of the build date. The vehicle arrived at the dealership towards the end of November. The TSB you referred to was for builds prior to July 26th. Mine was deffinitely built well after that, allthough I don't know how to find the build date. There is no reason that TSB should have applied to my vehicle. I am still not convinced it did, I think Chrysler was grasping for straws. To me it feels like a programming thing and not something mechanical. I think that if it were mechanical it would do the exact same thing everytime. But who knows it probably is some problem with the torque converter.
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  #56  
Old 04-20-2011, 06:29 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

The build date is inside the drivers door on a sticker. If yours was built after the date for the TSB than it sounds like you are being fed a bunch of garbage. This was the only TSB that I know of that was for the type of shudder you are having. If yours already had the lastest software then they would not be able to update it again. Which means they may have done an update that had nothing to do with your issue. Which would only futher prove the incompetence case. If you are running the lastest software and still have the problem it is probably not software related as they would all do it if that was the case. I would ask what update they did. It's a real shame because if they were able to get the problem corrected they might be able to hang onto a customer.
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  #57  
Old 04-20-2011, 07:00 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

Quote:
Originally Posted by litespeedz View Post
....... Because I am such an enthusiast friends, family, and colleagues value my opinion and pay attention to what I drive. They ..are even more surprised at how tolerant I have been of this cars foibles. My experience has persuaded two possible buyers (one for a new Jeep and another for a new Dodge Durango) not to make a purchase. They don't want the same headache that I have.

I now feel compelled to share this experience with others, include it on consumer reviews of the car, and I am submitting ALL of this information to TrueDelta for their reliability ratings. I signed up when I bought the car.

... This experience has made me entertain taking a tremendous loss at trade-in just to get back to a dependable car/brand. Maybe my car is one in a million but if I had known how frustrating this COULD be I never would have bought this Jeep.
Make that 2 in a million. Ditto on all your points.

I've had over 50 warranty trips in 3.5 yrs and it's not fixed yet. Chrysler has chased me away as a customer after having 4 GC's. Jeep sent me 2 customer surveys and I sent back flamingly dissatisfied responses. No real help. They never even acknowledged receipt. So much for the "voice of the customer".

Dealer keeps trying, but receives no real technical support. I went through the Technical Team Review routine also. Nothing in writing and less results.

They've installed over $5K in parts plus probably twice that in labor. Here's what has been replaced (above and beyond normal maintenance replacements):
Instrument Gauge Cluster Ė twice
Multi-function turn signal stalk
Clockspring in steering wheel
Radio Head Unit
Radio Amplifier
Driverís door speaker
multiple software re-flashes
Driverís door master window/lock switch
Driverís door window regulator (and module re-flash)
Driverís door lock assembly
Tailgate latch assembly (and repaired grounded wire in harness)
Tailgate interior light assembly
Park Assist Sensor
Engine radiator cap
Engine serpentine belt Ė twice
Engine serpentine belt tensioner
Engine EGR valve
Engine MAP sensor
Engine O2 sensors (1 replaced at 22.7K miles and all 4 replaced at 53.7K miles)
driverís side exhaust manifold gasket (1st time)
driverís side exhaust manifold, studs, nuts, and gaskets (2nd time)
passengerís side exhaust manifold, studs, nuts, and gaskets
exhaust Y-pipe and both catalytic converters, bolts & nuts
multiple PCM re-flashes
Transfer case rear seal
Shock absorbers (4) - 1 failed and needs replacing after 3K miles
FOBIKís (Jeep recall)
ESIM sensor


I told the dealership owner & salesman that it has cost them at least 5 car sales so far and they were astounded. Then, my wife drove up in her new Ford Taurus to pick me up (no loaner). She told them that she refused to drive the Jeep because of its unreliability and their inability to correct the issues.
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  #58  
Old 04-20-2011, 08:53 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

You have got to keep pushing them and get in their face about it. That's the only way to get results. I would raise hell and demand a brand new replacement vehicle and make it very uncomfortable for them. If they balk at that, have a lawyer contact them immediately with what you require to be done and give them a time limit and a written letter indicating as such and when lawsuit will be filed if conditions are not met.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:45 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

So what are you going to do? Ive been following and sometimes the headache and trouble isn't worth it imo! I love Jeeps but it sure sounds like you really did get the Sunday Jeep . Sorry to make jokes but it does happen, I dont know how or why but some Jeeps just seem cursed form past experiences. In the end in every situation I recall the owner having sold the car, getting a buy back or winning in a lemon case. One way or another you'll make out, whether its your $ back or you end up selling her, I think you just need to get away from her.

Some say dont give up blah blah blah, but like I said, how much time, effort & $ is it worth? I've seen guys go through 3 tranny's in a month, all new modules, new shifter units and still the shudder persisted. All the other stuff you were describing seem to be related to QC like previously mentioned. Seems like this was the last one on a Sunday being put together and you got the worst of it. That or maybe a bad batch of parts, I dont know exactly how their process/manufacturing line works but the fact that all the things you had went bad and at the same time cant be coincidental. Im sure theres a ton more things on there that are a QC issue as well and you have yet to see them fail. I dont want to say that and hope you dont have to find out but who knows what else on there isn't up to par? An axle? Wheel baring? Driveshaft? Brake system component? There so many crucial system and when that many things are going bad, I wouldn't want to find out what else wasn't built to last. Again this is a VERY RARE case but Ive seen it before and its never a fun experience but definitely one to learn from

Anyway getting rid of it is definitely a personal call but seems like you've had it so if so, Id say to make the move, get rid of her any way you can, even if you take a nice loss. I mean maybe there is a fix out there but at what cost, its a risk. Like playing cards, how long can and will you last? I love Jeeps but with something that bad Id fold, sorry, just my .02
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:08 PM
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Re: It's Official, I Regret My Purchase

Nobody should have to take a financial bath on something like this. You purchased the vehicle in good faith, and if it is going to spend an eternity in the shop to little good effect, then Chrysler should honor its commitment and make you, the buyer, whole. Whether this vehicle was assembled on Sunday or Mother Theresa's birthday is beside the point.

They have a terrible quality reputation to overcome, and that is a major component of their recovery strategy. Whatever it costs them to clear this matter up is a bargain compared to having their past reputation validated just as they are trying to become known for newfound quality.

Go high up enough in the company, and this logic is likely to ring true. How you do this, I don't know, but personally I would find a way to convey your experience factually to Sergio M. at Fiat HQ in Italy, and express your profound disappointment, not anger. The man is known for being a stickler for detail and for not suffering poor performance from any of his executives.

No threats, no demands, just a factual presentation and see what happens. You've gotten nowhere by bottom fishing, so you might want to aim for the top.
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