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  #37  
Old 04-09-2011, 04:04 PM
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Re: Lifetime warranty

These are great. Literally worth their weight in gold if you plan on keeping the vehicle for a long time. Bought one with my '98 GC. Probably got close to $8K worth of repairs for $2K. Still own the Vehicle with close to 190 K on the clock.
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  #38  
Old 04-09-2011, 04:05 PM
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Re: Lifetime warranty

Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicNow View Post
Seems like these are a rip-off to me. I pay today, and then have to fight later.

From the Lifetime contract, under excluded items. Since the engineer already stated the vehicle is designed for 150,000 miles, after that mileage this contract is over in the eye's of the law with the court. Almost any repair at any mileage could also use this line to exclude you from coverage.

This just means that if they do not use the line above, they will make sure I don't keep the vehicle forever, as each repair will just require longer time periods, more frequent repairs (remember they only have to "fix" the item, not replace with new) to the point that you basically don't have a vehicle.

After reading the contract, that was not easy to get (I used a dummy e-mail), I can't see buying. The ROI is very poor.

As for the one that stated how do the actuaries approve this, easy read the contract, it basically covers NOTHING. Design defects and normal wear allow them to refuse coverage.
I think what you are saying doesn't jive with the actual experiences of warranty owners. While I did not have the Lifetime warranty the last time around (I did have the 7 year extended warranty), I certainly experienced nothing of the sort.

Every time there was an issue with the Jeep, other than obvious wear items (like wiper blades, brake rotors), it was covered and the repair was performed in the same time frame as if I were paying for it.

Furthermore, you seem to posit some sort of giant conspiracy between the guarantor and the repair shops. Remember, the dealer service organizations make money on these repairs. They would certainly not "slow down" your repair or act in some sort conspiratorial fashion to avoid charging the guarantor.

There was already a thread about this. I would venture that the consensus was that the guarantor makes money both on the "float" (like all insurance companies) and the abandonment rate, whereas they'll likely lose a little bit on people like me since I intend to hold the vehicle for at least 10 years.
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  #39  
Old 04-09-2011, 04:06 PM
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Re: Lifetime warranty

Is anyone on this forum an attorney or has an attorney that can look at that contract? Logicnow, do you have a copy of the contract that you can attach to this thread?
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  #40  
Old 04-09-2011, 04:11 PM
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Re: Lifetime warranty

How do I attach a file?

I do have a sample contract. I agree, the float and abandonment is how they make money, but seems like a costly contract that is really just on goodwill.
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  #41  
Old 04-09-2011, 04:30 PM
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Re: Lifetime warranty

At the bottom of this message, click "post reply". a new window will open. once the window opens, click the paperclip. from there choose "browse" until you find the file on your computer. click the file, then upload, you're good to go.
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  #42  
Old 04-09-2011, 04:34 PM
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Re: Lifetime warranty

Here is the Contract Sample they provide.

Let the lawyers fire away.

Thanks Kaflyboy on the FAQ on attaching the file!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf MaxCare.pdf (184.6 KB, 66 views)
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  #43  
Old 04-09-2011, 04:48 PM
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Re: Lifetime warranty

I think everyone's being way too paranoid and litigious.
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  #44  
Old 04-10-2011, 12:41 AM
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Re: Lifetime warranty

Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicNow View Post
Seems like these are a rip-off to me. I pay today, and then have to fight later.

From the Lifetime contract, under excluded items. Since the engineer already stated the vehicle is designed for 150,000 miles, after that mileage this contract is over in the eye's of the law with the court.

After reading the contract, that was not easy to get (I used a dummy e-mail), I can't see buying. The ROI is very poor.

As for the one that stated how do the actuaries approve this, easy read the contract, it basically covers NOTHING. Design defects and normal wear allow them to refuse coverage.
Wow, Debating is enjoyable, but Unlike a ScreenName, "logic" wasn't applied on comments. Since you've made an attempt to BELITTLE "the one that stated" and since that is "me"... then I'm obligated to provide a clarification reply due to your misunderstandings.

First for clarification, I was sharing my observations & personal opinion and concluded with my intentions. I wasn't selling, advertising or forcing a payment to be made. Thus, no legal advise and the interpretation of the value of the service contract was up to the individual.

The following does not represent a legal statement, nor provide legal advice, nor provides legal interpretation of the legality of service contract; it is my opinion & observations.

With that stated, let's examine your statements. In my reading & humble understanding; your comments were "suggested" as well researched and verified.

The comment concerning the item: Sample Contract (maxcare.pdf).
You reported that it was "not easy to get" & used a dummy email to obtain.

Really, Are you serious? - the sample contract is a direct link off the ChrylserWarranty web site and DOES NOT require an email address.
Very easy to obtain and I will clarify; I downloaded and reviewed prior to my shared comments within this thread originally, which prompted my excitement of possible value, aka: ROI.

Comment of Engineer and 150K miles as Life of Vehicle and how that relates to this contract. You've indicated one must read to clarify, which is true; but understanding what you read is critical too! Did you happen to notice how the above Eng & 150K Lifespan is NOT indicated on the sample contract? This is because the Engineering lifespan is not associated to this contract. This is NOT a Warranty, it's a Service Contract, indicating a separation from warranty in repairs & legal.

In the FIRST paragraph of Document:
"A SERVICE CONTRACT: This Plan is a service contract between you and us. It protects you against major repair bills should a component covered by the Plan fail in normal use. This Plan is not part of the vehicles’ factory warranty. We are solely responsible (liable) for fulfillment of the provisions of the Plan."

This paragraph basically states you're purchasing a product that will provide service separate from the warranty and will follow the guidelines within it's own "Plan Terms". Not Warranty, and nothing concerning lifespan of "Plan" is limited to 150K miles. In essence, you're purchasing a instrument to transfer "risk" via the "plan" similar to an insurance policy. Speaking of which, can you insure a 20 year old car... if the Engineered Lifespan was the determining factor, you'd be wasting your money!

Now, to help you find the "gotcha" in the Service Contract via Reading the Document. It's the value of the vehicle at time of service reported by the NADA guide. It's the BOLD section within the 2nd Paragraph because they must be trying to conceal it!

Second "gotcha" is a possible repair with remanufactured parts. NOT Used, but remanufactured. Although I don't think bearings, rings, seals, etc will be a debating point with Service Manager.

2nd Paragraph:
"IMPORTANT! The maximum reimbursable amount should a covered component fail will be THE TOTAL COST OF THE REPAIRS, PER VISIT, LESS THE DEDUCTIBLE, OR THE CASH VALUE OF THE VEHICLE WHICHEVER IS LESS!"

To assist in understanding this statement: If you're vehicle is worth $18K, then have "multiple items" repaired at 1 visit to limit your cost to a single $100 payment (assuming $100 deductible purchased). If your vehicle is worth $5K, and you need a transmission repair / rebuild / replacement, then only request the "1 repair" to keep "Total Cost" of visit below Vehicle cost. Yes, eventually your value will be less than a major repair and the "Plan" won't cover the repair. Then don't request it to cover it, only apply it to repairs less than value of old worn out 14 yr old vehicle.

Under What's NOT Covered, you quoted the
"Loss of use of the vehicle, loss of time, inconvenience, commercial loss, or any incidental or consequential
damages."

In simple terms, this states that the "Plan" is not going to cover Loss of Use or your time without vehicle. The "Plan" covers the vehicle repair, not your life style or value you place on your time. Although; the MaxCare does cover many of these reimbursements for a stated number of years.

Your strongest indication of poor ROI was the 2nd Item within the Not Covered Section.
"Repairs required as a result of other than a manufacturing defect (such as a design defect or normal wear)".

This enters the understanding of grammar and writing instruments covering clarification of possible misunderstandings.
Reference of Grammar & Writting < www.edufind.com/english/punctuation/brackets.cfm >
Quoted Explanation:
"Round brackets - ( ) -, or 'parentheses' are used in a similar way to commas when we want to add further explanation, an afterthought, or comment that is to do with our main line of thought but distinct from it."

This indicates that parentheses are to clarify the leading verbaige "manufacturing defect". Meaning Manufacturing defect "INCLUDES" design defect & normal wear.

Your Understanding would appear similar to the following:
Repairs required as a result of other failures (such as a design defect or normal wear) not a manufacturing defect.

Hoped that helped clarify the Service Contract and the Lifetime Option.
With refreshed understanding, the ROI on an Ownership over 7 years or over the 100K mile powertrain can quickly return the purchase price and continue to provide substantial savings.
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  #45  
Old 04-10-2011, 06:24 AM
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Ok I just want to say that this is a good discussion but let's try to keep the flame wars to a minimum. No one wants to read that stuff.

I typically never buy any kind of extended warranty as I don't think they are usually worth it, and agree that making a claim can be problematic depending on the company that is covering the item warrantied. Someone stated correctly that this is more about a relationship. That's why I wouldn't even consider an extended warranty on electronics or appliances...those things just don't have the lifespan that demands that kind of warranty and I just replace them as I desire more features or they die.

With auto warranties, I think the return for an extended is definitely driven by how long you plan to own the vehicle and how comfortable you are with handling the repairs yourself. I typically keep my cars 3 years or less, although this will be my first brand new car, so if I follow that cycle there is no need for an extended warranty. I've tentatively decided to force myself into a 48 month loan to help accelerate the pay down so that if in the likely event that I want to trade around year 3 this will hopefully mean the loan balance has kept pace with the big depreciation i'll take in years 1-2. If I decide that I just love the jeep so much that I can't part with it I can always buy the extended warranty at that time, even if it costs more. The chances of that in my case are small but if I knew for sure that I would keep the car for at least 6 or 7 years I might consider it.

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Old 04-10-2011, 11:12 AM
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Re: Lifetime warranty

Sorry, I had some sarcasm in the original post, it was not meant to offend/attack anyone, only give some debate/personal experiences back to support the purchase of the warranty. I also did reference that for ME it did not seem like a service that would work or have a good ROI, that didn't mean it was a poor choice for everyone.

Personally, I have had terrible experiences with any type of warranty (original or extended), so yes I do want to read the contract and not trust good faith. Claims are either denied or refurbished components used that cause a high loss of use of the product and significant amounts of my time to facilitate the repair.

The fact that all the warranties don't offer any option for rental car coverage, towing or loss of use over 7 years/70K miles also indicates to me that the "loss" factor of the use of the vehicle becomes significant after this age/mileage. That also is a problem for me, as I live alone and have no other form of transportation, so having to rent a car that is not included in the contract will become increasingly expensive as the years progress, making the ROI (again for me) not as practical as for other people. Everyone should be figuring in the costs of having the vehicle towed in for repair as this is a cost.

"Repairs required as a result of other than a manufacturing defect (such as a design defect or normal wear)" This is under the Not Covered section and yes this is separate contract from the manufacturer. But if the service contract I am purchasing references manufacturer specifications (as it does for maintenance responsibilities for the owner) then what the manufacturer has stated is important in court. If the vehicle is designed for 150K miles, under normal wear, any failure after that mileage would be caused by normal wear, not a manufacturing defect (any failure prior to that mileage would be a manufacturing defect of the part). If I was on a jury I would support that all failures after 150K miles can be denied coverage. No different than the owner supplying maintenance records that match my owners manual to prove the car was adequately maintained. Additionally, design defects are not covered, so problems like the shudder if it gets worst could be denied (even if it makes the vehicle difficult/annoying to drive). Now, this is where the company is going to have their actuaries look at the cost to cover such a claim or the cost to deny it and take the hit to reputation.

In my opinion, the contract has a lot of exclusions and language that protects the service provider more than protects the purchaser.

All other items aside, the simple ROI for each individual is going to be different as everyone's situation is different. For example, I would pay cash for the plan today versus investing the money in the stock market (long term ROI is around 8-11% over 30 years), would have to include the cost of renting a car and include the loss of my time. Loss of my time is calculated very high in the ROI calculation since focusing on my career has exponential value when you factor in the time value of money (getting a 7% raise this year versus 5% is really important as every raise after that is compounded growth). Since dealing with car repairs is worse than having to go to work, I would rather spend that time at work. Other people may find the lost hours to dealing with the warranty provide a better payback as the cost of the savings is larger than the revenue they can garner.
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  #47  
Old 04-10-2011, 11:35 AM
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Re: Lifetime warranty

LogicNow, Thanks for the comments and always welcomed participation, that's what makes the forums fun & informative.

We all share viewpoints & opinions to enjoy & learn from our fellow Jeep Owners.
IMO, you're off track in assessing the service contacts... we all make our own decisions. Enjoy the WK2 and the forum!
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  #48  
Old 04-10-2011, 11:37 AM
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Re: Lifetime warranty

So, in the example above about the "shudder problem" in regards to it being a design problem, would a problem with the quadra lift be considered a design flaw or a specific problem with an individual's vehicle? major items like that, specifically on a new vehicle design, is what concerns me about not buying the warranty.
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