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  #37  
Old 10-07-2013, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobT View Post
I'm not so sure if time is important. I don't know what there is that needs maintenance every 6 months. Engine oil has a commercial shelf-life of 2 years but an actual self-life of 20+ years. I suspect the time thing is more a marketing ploy. I only ever go on kms travelled. The Jeep is supposed to have a condition based maintenance warning system. I'd like to use this but I need to know more about it. In industry, condition based maintenance has always been shown to be far superior. The great thing about it is that it reduces maintenance induced failures which is a big this these days particularly with the incompetent dealers we seem to have. Sorry to stray from the topic.
Time is also important...and I admit I don't know if the system in the JGC takes it into account.

I should back up a bit here. For new engine oil (unused), time really isn't a factor. For oil that is used, time becomes a factor. When it is run inside an engine, oil accumulates contamination. That contamination forms acids, and other chemical processes are taking place. The additive packages in modern oil are designed to neutralize these acids and other processes. However, over time these additives become depleted.

Now let's say you only go 2000 miles but you do it in 12 months with the same oil. Most manufacturers will recommend this as being the longest period of time to go with the oil as some of the chemical processes involved are catalytic and continue even when you're not running the engine--this continues to both reduce the additive package and oxidize the oil, among other things.

Lots of factors here. Using the engine more speeds this up...which is why there is a mileage limit as well. The algorithmic monitoring is better as it can also monitor engine run time (when idling, you're not gaining miles for example).

Now, is 6 months a marketing ploy? Possibly, and does seem on the slim side time-wise. But I generally would not go past 12 months with oil in an engine that's been used at all.
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  #38  
Old 10-07-2013, 10:51 AM
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Re: Oil dip stick

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Originally Posted by nariracruisin' View Post
Not sure about the gasoline motors but I had an experience with my new JGC CRD. On its first outing towing a 2t caravan, I noticed one morning that the oil measured low on the dipstick. I added a litre and checked again two mornings later. Showed at minimum once more. Added another litre. On the third morning it again showed low on the dipstick. Only then did I resort to reading the Owners Manual and learnt that I should only check the oil level AFTER the motor had reached operating temperature.

I did so and the oil level was dangerously over full. I had 2 liters of oil drained and checked the oil. It now registered on the full mark and has done so for the last 8,000k with no change to oil level. My problem related to the requirement to run the engine to operating temperature in order to get correct reading.
What a wonderful object lesson in the advantages of reading the owner's manual. Often this is the last place people go for advice!
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  #39  
Old 10-07-2013, 01:23 PM
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Re: Oil dip stick

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobT View Post
I'm not so sure if time is important. I don't know what there is that needs maintenance every 6 months. Engine oil has a commercial shelf-life of 2 years but an actual self-life of 20+ years. I suspect the time thing is more a marketing ploy. I only ever go on kms travelled. The Jeep is supposed to have a condition based maintenance warning system. I'd like to use this but I need to know more about it. In industry, condition based maintenance has always been shown to be far superior. The great thing about it is that it reduces maintenance induced failures which is a big this these days particularly with the incompetent dealers we seem to have. Sorry to stray from the topic.
Oil Change Indicator Systems..............

2008-2012 models (gasoline engines)

The oil change indicator system was introduced on most 2008 Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep models. This system displays a "Oil Change Required" or "Oil Change" message at appropriate intervals on the instrument cluster.

Schedules A and B have long been a part of required and recommended maintenance on Chrysler Group vehicles. One drawback of using these schedules is that customers sometimes end up making a best "guesstimate" of the correct maintenance interval.

With the introduction of the Oil Change Indicator system, that's going to change - customers are automatically notified via the cluster or EVIC that an oil change is required. In addition, the system does away with Schedules A and B and instead combines both into easy-to-use lists and tables.

The Oil Change Indicator system uses the Powertrain Control Module to process a variety of inputs and then decides on an oil change interval. The factors which point toward severe use include the following:

Ambient temperature inputs which indicate extended periods of low temperature operation
Average vehicle speeds which indicate stop-and-go driving
Run time which indicates prolonged idling
Trip lengths and coolant temperatures which indicate short trips
Engine RPM and engine loads which indicate trailer tow usage
Fuel indications of an ethanol percentage of 60 percent or greater
The system cannot keep track of dusty conditions or time elapsed since the last maintenance. In fact, it is possible for the maximum allowable maintenance time interval to elapse without an oil change reminder. In such a case, it is the owner's responsibility to ensure that maintenance is performed according to the recommended interval.

Based on the inputs, at a fixed number of miles since the last reset, the Powertrain Control Module decides on the severity of the operating conditions. If one or more of the conditions indicates severe use, the PCM sends a message over the bus so that the appropriate message can be displayed. If the PCM decides that the normal service interval applies, it waits until additional mileage has accumulated before sending out the request for a message.

The EVIC message may also include A dealership's name and phone number, which can be programmed into the vehicle with a scan tool. However, the dealership must receive the customer's approval before adding this information. Hitting the trip button will temporarily end the message, and it will reappear with the next key cycle.

In addition to the oil change, the related items listed in the Service Information should also be performed when service is indicated. All other items will follow a single maintenance schedule with the same calendar/mileage intervals no matter what the oil change interval.


2013-2014 models (gasoline engines)

2013 model year vehicles will be equipped with a new variable automatic oil change indicator system. Operating conditions such as frequent short-trips, trailer tow, extremely hot or cold ambient temperatures, or E85 fuel usage will influence when the "Change Oil" message is displayed indicating service is required. Severe operating conditions can cause the change oil message to illuminate AS EARLY AS 3,500 MILES SINCE THE LAST RESET.

NOTE: ALWAYS CHANGE THE ENGINE OIL AND FILTER WHEN PROMPTED BY THE OIL CHANGE INDICATOR SYSTEM AND UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD OIL CHANGE INTERVALS EXCEED 10,000 MILES OR TWELVE MONTHS, WHICHEVER COMES FIRST.

Certain maintenance services are now coupled with the oil change indicator system rather than being listed at THE REVISED FIXED INTERVALS - 12 MONTHS / 10,000 MILES. Listed below are the maintenance services that are required to be performed at every oil change interval as indicated by oil change indicator system:

Change engine oil and filter. Oil changes prompted by the oil change indicator system can be recorded in the oil change log section.
Rotate the tires. Rotate at the first sign of irregular wear even if it occurs before the oil indicator system turns on.
Inspect battery and clean and tighten terminals as required.
Inspect automatic transmission fluid if equipped with dipstick.
Inspect brake pads, shoes, rotors, drums, hoses and park brake.
Inspect engine cooling system protection and hoses.
Inspect exhaust system.
Inspect engine air filter if using in dusty or off-road conditions.

Oil change maintenance schedule changes

2007 MODEL YEAR AND PRIOR

Separate schedule A (Normal) and schedule B (Severe)

2008 MODEL YEAR

New 6 months or 6,000 miles interval maintenance schedule and automatic oil change indicator. Severe condition oil drain interval 6 months or 3,000 miles.

2011 MODEL YEAR

Maintenance schedule revised to 6 months or 8,000 miles (except SRT). Severe condition oil drain interval revised to 6 months or 4,000 miles.

2013 MODEL YEAR - VARIABLE OIL CHANGE INTERVAL

Maintenance schedule revised to 12 months or 10,000 miles (Except SRT models and Diesel engines). Fully variable metrage algorithm based automatic oil change indicator system. Improves customer satisfaction and reduces environmental impact. Monitors driving habits, hardware differences and environmental conditions continuously compared to the previous system that did not adjust the oil drain interval beyond 3,500 miles. Supports, "Percent Oil Life Remaining" dash display along with the "Change Oil Soon" and "Change Oil Now" dash display features.


How to reset the oil service indicator.............

The oil change indicator can be reset using the following steps:

A. Vehicles without push-button start:

1. Turn the ignition key to ON but do not start the engine.
2. Slowly depress the accelerator to the floor and release it three times within 10 seconds.
3. Turn the ignition key to the OFF position.

B. Vehicles with push-button start:

1. Without pressing the brake pedal, press the ENGINE START/STOP button and cycle the ignition to the ON/ RUN position (Do not start the engine).
2. Slowly depress the accelerator to the floor and release it three times within 10 seconds.
3. Without pressing the brake pedal, press the ENGINE START/STOP button once to return the ignition to the OFF/LOCK position.

C. Vehicles with diesel engines (export models):

1. Cycle the ignition to the "ON/RUN" position (Do not start the engine).
2. Fully depress the accelerator pedal and keep it fully depressed for at least 30 seconds.
3. Press and release the brake pedal six times while holding the accelerator pedal pressed.
4. Perform one ignition OFF-ON cycle, start the engine and verify that the reminder has been reset.

Repeat the process if the indicator does not reset.
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  #40  
Old 10-07-2013, 08:30 PM
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Re: Oil dip stick

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2014 LAREDO View Post




Maybe you should be concerned about paying atttention to what your reading. I was referring to the op's oil change after 500 miles not 5000.




So try to keep up or go crawl back into your "post once every 2 years hole".
Sorry for the confusion, I quess I need to clarify the 500 more miles issue. I already had 1000 miles on my oil and I drove an additional 500 miles. I like to change the oil every three month or 3k miles, which ever comes first, but not being sure if I was a qt low or not to begin with I decided to change the oil early.
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Old 10-07-2013, 08:57 PM
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Re: Oil dip stick

Quote:
Originally Posted by peckmv View Post
I was one of the unlucky ones that had the smoke on startup issue. Chrysler finally changed my oil pan and windage tray that solved the issue. The problem with my dipstick happened when the dealer was overfilling because the dipstick was wrong. They kept putting in 8 qts. The new oil pan was deeper and the dipstick was not changed. The dealer contacted Chrysler and they said under no circumstances put in more than 7 qts. Since Chrysler refused to change the dipstick, I ground off the factory marks and made new ones on the back side of the dipstick to show the correct fill line. Bottom line....do not put more than 7 quarts, and make your own dipsick. Sure glad I spent 47k on this Jeep.
If Jeep is aware of this issue then they need to correct this serious problem right away. What happens if someone takes their Jeep somewhere else and it gets over filled because of a bogus dip stick.
Jeep is taking a HUGE RISK with a LAW SUIT. Chrysler needs to inform owners of the 5.7L Hemi Jeep owners exactly how much oil we need to use and do a dip stick recall and install the corrrect lenght. My Jeep was 55k and I'm getting really pissed with Chrysler. I really appreciate the input from Forum members, but if something happens to our new Jeep Chrysler is going to buy it back.
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  #42  
Old 10-07-2013, 09:17 PM
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Re: Oil dip stick

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2014 summit View Post
If Jeep is aware of this issue then they need to correct this serious problem right away. What happens if someone takes their Jeep somewhere else and it gets over filled because of a bogus dip stick.
Jeep is taking a HUGE RISK with a LAW SUIT. Chrysler needs to inform owners of the 5.7L Hemi Jeep owners exactly how much oil we need to use and do a dip stick recall and install the corrrect lenght. My Jeep was 55k and I'm getting really pissed with Chrysler. I really appreciate the input from Forum members, but if something happens to our new Jeep Chrysler is going to buy it back.
This happened only after they put on a different oil pan, which was deeper. In spite of what 1 customer service rep said (which should be taken as gospel) if the pan is deeper, it can probably hold more oil without doing any damage. No need to sound the alarms. 2014 Summit handled his somewhat unique very well.


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  #43  
Old 10-08-2013, 01:07 AM
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Re: Oil dip stick

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2014 LAREDO View Post
Oil Change Indicator Systems..............

2008-2012 models (gasoline engines)

The oil change indicator system was introduced on most 2008 Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep models. This system displays a "Oil Change Required" or "Oil Change" message at appropriate intervals on the instrument cluster.

Schedules A and B have long been a part of required and recommended maintenance on Chrysler Group vehicles. One drawback of using these schedules is that customers sometimes end up making a best "guesstimate" of the correct maintenance interval.

With the introduction of the Oil Change Indicator system, that's going to change - customers are automatically notified via the cluster or EVIC that an oil change is required. In addition, the system does away with Schedules A and B and instead combines both into easy-to-use lists and tables.

The Oil Change Indicator system uses the Powertrain Control Module to process a variety of inputs and then decides on an oil change interval. The factors which point toward severe use include the following:

Ambient temperature inputs which indicate extended periods of low temperature operation
Average vehicle speeds which indicate stop-and-go driving
Run time which indicates prolonged idling
Trip lengths and coolant temperatures which indicate short trips
Engine RPM and engine loads which indicate trailer tow usage
Fuel indications of an ethanol percentage of 60 percent or greater
The system cannot keep track of dusty conditions or time elapsed since the last maintenance. In fact, it is possible for the maximum allowable maintenance time interval to elapse without an oil change reminder. In such a case, it is the owner's responsibility to ensure that maintenance is performed according to the recommended interval.

Based on the inputs, at a fixed number of miles since the last reset, the Powertrain Control Module decides on the severity of the operating conditions. If one or more of the conditions indicates severe use, the PCM sends a message over the bus so that the appropriate message can be displayed. If the PCM decides that the normal service interval applies, it waits until additional mileage has accumulated before sending out the request for a message.

The EVIC message may also include A dealership's name and phone number, which can be programmed into the vehicle with a scan tool. However, the dealership must receive the customer's approval before adding this information. Hitting the trip button will temporarily end the message, and it will reappear with the next key cycle.

In addition to the oil change, the related items listed in the Service Information should also be performed when service is indicated. All other items will follow a single maintenance schedule with the same calendar/mileage intervals no matter what the oil change interval.


2013-2014 models (gasoline engines)

2013 model year vehicles will be equipped with a new variable automatic oil change indicator system. Operating conditions such as frequent short-trips, trailer tow, extremely hot or cold ambient temperatures, or E85 fuel usage will influence when the "Change Oil" message is displayed indicating service is required. Severe operating conditions can cause the change oil message to illuminate AS EARLY AS 3,500 MILES SINCE THE LAST RESET.

NOTE: ALWAYS CHANGE THE ENGINE OIL AND FILTER WHEN PROMPTED BY THE OIL CHANGE INDICATOR SYSTEM AND UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD OIL CHANGE INTERVALS EXCEED 10,000 MILES OR TWELVE MONTHS, WHICHEVER COMES FIRST.

Certain maintenance services are now coupled with the oil change indicator system rather than being listed at THE REVISED FIXED INTERVALS - 12 MONTHS / 10,000 MILES. Listed below are the maintenance services that are required to be performed at every oil change interval as indicated by oil change indicator system:

Change engine oil and filter. Oil changes prompted by the oil change indicator system can be recorded in the oil change log section.
Rotate the tires. Rotate at the first sign of irregular wear even if it occurs before the oil indicator system turns on.
Inspect battery and clean and tighten terminals as required.
Inspect automatic transmission fluid if equipped with dipstick.
Inspect brake pads, shoes, rotors, drums, hoses and park brake.
Inspect engine cooling system protection and hoses.
Inspect exhaust system.
Inspect engine air filter if using in dusty or off-road conditions.

Oil change maintenance schedule changes

2007 MODEL YEAR AND PRIOR

Separate schedule A (Normal) and schedule B (Severe)

2008 MODEL YEAR

New 6 months or 6,000 miles interval maintenance schedule and automatic oil change indicator. Severe condition oil drain interval 6 months or 3,000 miles.

2011 MODEL YEAR

Maintenance schedule revised to 6 months or 8,000 miles (except SRT). Severe condition oil drain interval revised to 6 months or 4,000 miles.

2013 MODEL YEAR - VARIABLE OIL CHANGE INTERVAL

Maintenance schedule revised to 12 months or 10,000 miles (Except SRT models and Diesel engines). Fully variable metrage algorithm based automatic oil change indicator system. Improves customer satisfaction and reduces environmental impact. Monitors driving habits, hardware differences and environmental conditions continuously compared to the previous system that did not adjust the oil drain interval beyond 3,500 miles. Supports, "Percent Oil Life Remaining" dash display along with the "Change Oil Soon" and "Change Oil Now" dash display features.


How to reset the oil service indicator.............

The oil change indicator can be reset using the following steps:

A. Vehicles without push-button start:

1. Turn the ignition key to ON but do not start the engine.
2. Slowly depress the accelerator to the floor and release it three times within 10 seconds.
3. Turn the ignition key to the OFF position.

B. Vehicles with push-button start:

1. Without pressing the brake pedal, press the ENGINE START/STOP button and cycle the ignition to the ON/ RUN position (Do not start the engine).
2. Slowly depress the accelerator to the floor and release it three times within 10 seconds.
3. Without pressing the brake pedal, press the ENGINE START/STOP button once to return the ignition to the OFF/LOCK position.

C. Vehicles with diesel engines (export models):

1. Cycle the ignition to the "ON/RUN" position (Do not start the engine).
2. Fully depress the accelerator pedal and keep it fully depressed for at least 30 seconds.
3. Press and release the brake pedal six times while holding the accelerator pedal pressed.
4. Perform one ignition OFF-ON cycle, start the engine and verify that the reminder has been reset.

Repeat the process if the indicator does not reset.
An excellent write-up. It should be made a sticky.

What makes me so sceptical about timed maintenance intervals is that Fiat Chrysler Australia arbitrarily put us all on Schedule B maintenance thus doubling the amount of maintenance. OK we have some dusty roads in this country but we are not all Crocodile Dundees. I would guess that most of our Jeeps rarely ever see a dirt road. It smacks of gouging.
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  #44  
Old 10-08-2013, 07:19 AM
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Re: Oil dip stick

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill_de View Post
This happened only after they put on a different oil pan, which was deeper. In spite of what 1 customer service rep said (which should be taken as gospel) if the pan is deeper, it can probably hold more oil without doing any damage. No need to sound the alarms. 2014 Summit handled his somewhat unique very well.


---

If they put more oil in the deeper pan then the same problem happens again. Thats what happened to me. After they changed the oil pan the tech was putting in 8 qts to satisfy the dipstick from the shallower pan and the smoking on startup continued. Only after we figured out the tech was using the dipstick as a guage instead of the factory oil amount did the problem go away. This resulted in the original dipstick to be useless until I modified it. The issue here is that Chrysler should have issued a new dipstick with the revised oil pan. When I brought this to their attention they refused to correct it, so I did.
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  #45  
Old 10-08-2013, 07:30 AM
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Re: Oil dip stick

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Originally Posted by peckmv View Post
If they put more oil in the deeper pan then the same problem happens again. Thats what happened to me. After they changed the oil pan the tech was putting in 8 qts to satisfy the dipstick from the shallower pan and the smoking on startup continued. Only after we figured out the tech was using the dipstick as a guage instead of the factory oil amount did the problem go away. This resulted in the original dipstick to be useless until I modified it. The issue here is that Chrysler should have issued a new dipstick with the revised oil pan. When I brought this to their attention they refused to correct it, so I did.
I agree. My point was just that you aren't going to blow up your engine filling it to the same level as before, even if it took more oil to get there.

Do you have any idea if this was a wide spread problem or just a scattered situation? It seems to me that on mass produced engines they all should have the same problem. I also feel Chrysler dropped the ball by not supplying a proper dip stick. Even though you may know the situation, if you trade the Jeep at some point the new owner won't have a clue.


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  #46  
Old 10-08-2013, 11:20 AM
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Re: Oil dip stick

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill_de View Post
I agree. My point was just that you aren't going to blow up your engine filling it to the same level as before, even if it took more oil to get there.

Do you have any idea if this was a wide spread problem or just a scattered situation? It seems to me that on mass produced engines they all should have the same problem. I also feel Chrysler dropped the ball by not supplying a proper dip stick. Even though you may know the situation, if you trade the Jeep at some point the new owner won't have a clue.


---
No, it wouldn't blow up the engine but it did cause oil burning smoke at startup due to being overfilled. The smoke on start up issue does seem to be isolated to a limited lucky few, but it must be a good amount for Chrysler to develop a revised oil pan. When I get rid of this Jeep I will let the new owner know not only about the dipstick but also to empty the catch can I installed to catch the blow by from the PCV valve. I never trade my vehicles because the dealer never wants to give me anything for them. I sell them privately.
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  #47  
Old 10-08-2013, 01:11 PM
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Re: Oil dip stick

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Originally Posted by 2014 LAREDO View Post
It hurts the enviroment.
If you take the old oil in for recycling, that significantly reduces the miniscule harm to the environment.
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  #48  
Old 10-10-2013, 08:54 AM
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Re: Oil dip stick

I don't know about you guys but every time I get the oil changed at the dealer the oil change message comes up on the EVIC 3,000 miles later regardless of driving conditions. This has happened with both my 2008 GC and 2011 GC and with dealers in the US and Canada. This makes me think dealers do have the ability to override the oil change indicator system.
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