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  #109  
Old 11-22-2013, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by bill_de View Post
My '07 Jeep (purchased in '07, traded in '11) had no service other than oil changes. Therefore all Jeeps are perfect. My '14 has had some issues. Therefore all Jeeps suck. Personal experience has a lot more to do with the perception of quality than all the reports and statistics in the world. ---
Oh I know Bill. I just get rather frustrated with how people will make blanket statements about an entire brand (or even industry) from their singular experiences...both good and bad. I can understand the personal side (hey...this sucks for me). But that devolves quickly into telling everyone else how their experiences will be (hey, it's going to suck for you too!) regardless of what the actual larger picture facts say.

More to the point and as I said I get really offended by the "armchair engineers" out there who throw insults about how easy it should be to do something or how it is unconscionable that something "got past testing" (when generally that isn't what happened) when they simply have no idea how what they perceive to be the "simplest thing" is actually quite complicated when you actually have to solve the real-world parts of it on a budget, in a given timeframe, with certain parameters, and so forth.
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  #110  
Old 11-22-2013, 08:39 AM
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Re: Outside Temperature Sensor Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_K View Post

Oh I know Bill. I just get rather frustrated with how people will make blanket statements about an entire brand (or even industry) from their singular experiences...both good and bad. I can understand the personal side (hey...this sucks for me). But that devolves quickly into telling everyone else how their experiences will be (hey, it's going to suck for you too!) regardless of what the actual larger picture facts say.
I have NEVER stated that opinion in any of my posts when complaining about MY Jeep's issues...I'm very careful to state that's it MY JEEP that has the problems...and I'm letting the world know, that's all. And it seems that MANY have had the same issues I've had with my 2014 GC when it comes to the transmission, clunking in back (load leveling shocks), 8.4A radio, and incorrect outside temperature reading. One only has to read about CR taking the 2014 GC off their recommended list to validate the number of people complaining about the same things.

Quote:
More to the point and as I said I get really offended by the "armchair engineers" out there who throw insults about how easy it should be to do something or how it is unconscionable that something "got past testing" (when generally that isn't what happened) when they simply have no idea how what they perceive to be the "simplest thing" is actually quite complicated when you actually have to solve the real-world parts of it on a budget, in a given timeframe, with certain parameters, and so forth.
Maybe Chrysler should hire BETTER engineers then...

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  #111  
Old 11-22-2013, 02:12 PM
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Re: Outside Temperature Sensor Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_K View Post
Oh I know Bill. I just get rather frustrated with how people will make blanket statements about an entire brand (or even industry) from their singular experiences...both good and bad. I can understand the personal side (hey...this sucks for me). But that devolves quickly into telling everyone else how their experiences will be (hey, it's going to suck for you too!) regardless of what the actual larger picture facts say.

More to the point and as I said I get really offended by the "armchair engineers" out there who throw insults about how easy it should be to do something or how it is unconscionable that something "got past testing" (when generally that isn't what happened) when they simply have no idea how what they perceive to be the "simplest thing" is actually quite complicated when you actually have to solve the real-world parts of it on a budget, in a given timeframe, with certain parameters, and so forth.
Peter quick question for you on the outside temperature sensor. Currently I don't use or believe the outside temperature readout on my GC because it is significantly wrong more often than not, however I am use to having one in a car and like having one if It would work correctly. I completely understand what you are saying concerning all the interdependencies of the various systems and I do understand the issues but if that is the case why not just have two sensors. one that has the simple operation of providing near real time temperature reading for the visual readout that people can read and depend on and another that is calibrated to provide the needed output to keep all of the interconnected systems operating the way they should? Since we know providing a simple temp readout we can see is easy and accurate as they have been on all of my other cars the last 20 years why not just separate the two? a little more money, maybe but I would rather pay a little more to have it correct. If its going to be wrong I would rather just not even have it there. Not looking to argue just a suggestion so does that make sense?
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  #112  
Old 11-22-2013, 02:35 PM
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Re: Outside Temperature Sensor Problem

arg,

The Temp Sensor thing was identified as a defect in the programming way back early in production. As it has not negatively affected other systems, they have focused on correcting more pressing issues, such as shift quality. The Problem will be fixed, yes they knew they screwed up..... End of conversation. (yes I excluded the date on purpose, my better guess is early next year).

Slower ambient temperature updates, primarily noticed during lower speed stop and go driving or
after the vehicle was driven and parked, engine off, for less than 4 hours and 15 minutes. If the
vehicle is started, within the off time period, the last known ambient temperature display strategy
displays the last temperature at vehicle ignition off (or possibly a colder temperature than period up to
4 hours and 14 minutes later) and displays it. Updates temperature readings will not update until the
programmed speed and time criteria are met, this during low speed stop and go conditions can take
in excess of 8 minutes to update. This ambient temperature display strategy is unique for the 2014
MY vehicles.Therefore, if there are no diagnostic fault codes “Active” or “Stored” related to the ambient air
temperature sensor no further updates or repairs will change the operation. The ambient temperature
display strategy will be updated with revised software update for 2014 MY vehicles and should be
available .....
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  #113  
Old 11-22-2013, 02:42 PM
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Well, you actually don't need two sensors to do that. You can simply read the single sensor and have the interconnected systems internally toss the data away if necessary for HVAC decisions (based on timing) but use it for the display. You'd still have the issue that the HVAC might not always do what you want but your display would be real-time. In all likelihood that's exactly what's happening internally now...the sensor is always being read, but the data isn't being used to update the display because it's not being used because of the HVAC issue.

One reason it might be done in this fashion might be a belief that the display is giving a visual reference as to why the HVAC is acting the way it is. That may have been a bad decision with good intentions and one of the fixes may very well be to do as mentioned above (for that part of the fix).

The current sensor really is in one of the best places for it given all the constraints so another in another place will have a different set of problems
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  #114  
Old 11-22-2013, 02:44 PM
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Geez Will...you went into format vomit there...
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  #115  
Old 11-22-2013, 02:55 PM
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Re: Outside Temperature Sensor Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_K View Post
Well, you actually don't need two sensors to do that. You can simply read the single sensor and have the interconnected systems internally toss the data away if necessary for HVAC decisions (based on timing) but use it for the display. You'd still have the issue that the HVAC might not always do what you want but your display would be real-time. In all likelihood that's exactly what's happening internally now...the sensor is always being read, but the data isn't being used to update the display because it's not being used because of the HVAC issue.

One reason it might be done in this fashion might be a belief that the display is giving a visual reference as to why the HVAC is acting the way it is. That may have been a bad decision with good intentions and one of the fixes may very well be to do as mentioned above (for that part of the fix).

The current sensor really is in one of the best places for it given all the constraints so another in another place will have a different set of problems
Thanks Peter I know there is a plan in the works to fix it was just trying to understand the issue a little better is all.
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  #116  
Old 11-22-2013, 03:05 PM
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Re: Outside Temperature Sensor Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willx View Post
arg,

The Temp Sensor thing was identified as a defect in the programming way back early in production. As it has not negatively affected other systems, they have focused on correcting more pressing issues, such as shift quality. The Problem will be fixed, yes they knew they screwed up..... End of conversation. (yes I excluded the date on purpose, my better guess is early next year).

Slower ambient temperature updates, primarily noticed during lower speed stop and go driving or
after the vehicle was driven and parked, engine off, for less than 4 hours and 15 minutes. If the
vehicle is started, within the off time period, the last known ambient temperature display strategy
displays the last temperature at vehicle ignition off (or possibly a colder temperature than period up to
4 hours and 14 minutes later) and displays it. Updates temperature readings will not update until the
programmed speed and time criteria are met, this during low speed stop and go conditions can take
in excess of 8 minutes to update. This ambient temperature display strategy is unique for the 2014
MY vehicles.Therefore, if there are no diagnostic fault codes “Active” or “Stored” related to the ambient air
temperature sensor no further updates or repairs will change the operation. The ambient temperature
display strategy will be updated with revised software update for 2014 MY vehicles and should be
available .....
I don't think you need to tell me end of conversation when I am just trying to understand this problem a little better. I know there is a plan to fix and there has been for a long time.
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  #117  
Old 11-22-2013, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvermax04 View Post

I don't think you need to tell me end of conversation when I am just trying to understand this problem a little better. I know there is a plan to fix and there has been for a long time.
I don't think he was directing that at you specifically, rather the entire thread
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  #118  
Old 11-23-2013, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_K View Post
Geez Will...you went into format vomit there...
Sorry, copied from the engineering file BUT it looked OK online.... just not in mobile!
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  #119  
Old 11-23-2013, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboRush View Post

I don't think he was directing that at you specifically, rather the entire thread
^^^^^

Absolutely.....

Silver, I have no issues with people asking questions about the problems or delays, I just felt the conversation about the quality of the product was getting overreaching. I was making it clear that Jeep know they screwed this up.

I guess to help you understand what they were thinking is, this was related to getting the system to make an immediate decision about HVAC and comfort controls at start up but negatively impacted the overall functionality.

So Silver, I am sorry if that statement seemed directed at you it was not.
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  #120  
Old 11-24-2013, 10:14 AM
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Re: Outside Temperature Sensor Problem

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Originally Posted by Willx View Post
^^^^^

Absolutely.....

Silver, I have no issues with people asking questions about the problems or delays, I just felt the conversation about the quality of the product was getting overreaching. I was making it clear that Jeep know they screwed this up.

I guess to help you understand what they were thinking is, this was related to getting the system to make an immediate decision about HVAC and comfort controls at start up but negatively impacted the overall functionality.

So Silver, I am sorry if that statement seemed directed at you it was not.
Thanks understand, was just curious because that is the last thing on my bucket list. Very happy with my summit just required some patience working through some of the various software updates.
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