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  #73  
Old 11-19-2013, 08:36 AM
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Re: Outside Temperature Sensor Problem

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Originally Posted by flashbang View Post
I find it disturbing that this fix is still not out. Even more disturbing is that current production may still have the same issue.
Whats disturbing about it? I can think of a lot of other horrors that could occur... like, like, what if you had to click the rear hatch button, 3, maybe even 4x!!!
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  #74  
Old 11-19-2013, 09:47 AM
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Re: Outside Temperature Sensor Problem

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Originally Posted by TurboRush View Post

Whats disturbing about it? I can think of a lot of other horrors that could occur... like, like, what if you had to click the rear hatch button, 3, maybe even 4x!!!
You just don't get it Fanboy, do you?

If Chrysler can't even get these "little" things right, how do you think it looks for Chrysler when it comes to overall quality of their product? This wouldn't be such a big issue if it was the only issue, but it's not. Have the "people" not already spoken with their complaints to CR? What about the self-leveling rear shocks for instance that leak/lock-up, or make noise...a problem that has plaged the WK2 for four years now...and it's STILL an unresolved issue to this day...



Stop sucking up to a company that has screwed up...you look like an idiot.
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  #75  
Old 11-19-2013, 09:52 AM
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Re: Outside Temperature Sensor Problem

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Originally Posted by GCLimited View Post
Stop sticking up for a company that has screwed up...you look like an idiot.
And even though all the information was out there, you bought a Jeep anyway.

Sounds like a smart move.


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  #76  
Old 11-19-2013, 10:01 AM
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Re: Outside Temperature Sensor Problem

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Originally Posted by bill_de View Post

And even though all the information was out there, you bought a Jeep anyway.

Sounds like a smart move.
I bought my Jeep back in March (taking delivery 7 weeks later) when half these issues weren't know yet smart-a$$.

Believe it or not Bill, I don't hate my Jeep...really. What bugs me is Chrysler taking so long to resolve these issues (and letting these vehicles go out the door like this), and all these "fanboys" defending Chrysler for their screw ups...and blaming it on the owners being too picky.

Sorry if I don't feel comfortable when my instrument panel dies or shows a bunch of CELs (and not knowing if I even have working air bags or ABS), or the rear shocks making noise from day one, or my transmission shifting like shit, or getting vibrations at highway speeds, or having my radio freeze up.

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  #77  
Old 11-19-2013, 10:21 AM
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Re: Outside Temperature Sensor Problem

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Originally Posted by GCLimited View Post
You just don't get it Fanboy, do you?

If Chrysler can't even get these "little" things right, how do you think it looks for Chrysler when it comes to overall quality of their product? This wouldn't be such a big issue if it was the only issue, but it's not. Have the "people" not already spoken with their complaints to CR? What about the self-leveling rear shocks for instance that leak/lock-up, or make noise...a problem that has plaged the WK2 for four years now...and it's STILL an unresolved issue to this day...



Stop sucking up to a company that has screwed up...you look like an idiot.
Ouch...
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:32 AM
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Re: Outside Temperature Sensor Problem

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Originally Posted by GCLimited View Post
I bought my Jeep back in March (taking delivery 7 weeks later) when half these issues weren't know yet smart-a$$.

Believe it or not Bill, I don't hate my Jeep...really. What bugs me is Chrysler taking so long to resolve these issues (and letting these vehicles go out the door like this), and all these "fanboys" defending Chrysler for their screw ups...and blaming it on the owners being too picky.

Sorry if I don't feel comfortable when my instrument panel dies or shows a bunch of CELs (and not knowing if I even have working air bags or ABS), or the rear shocks making noise from day one, or my transmission shifting like shit, or getting vibrations at highway speeds, or having my radio freeze up.

I read this in your post, and based on what you say bugs you, should have warned you off. Buying a Jeep makes you look like an idiot.

"What about the self-leveling rear shocks for instance that leak/lock-up, or make noise...a problem that has plaged the WK2 for four years now...and it's STILL an unresolved issue to this day..."



Relax ... I'm messing with you. But you might have had it coming.


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  #79  
Old 11-19-2013, 01:11 PM
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Re: Outside Temperature Sensor Problem

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Originally Posted by GCLimited View Post
You just don't get it Fanboy, do you?

If Chrysler can't even get these "little" things right, how do you think it looks for Chrysler when it comes to overall quality of their product? This wouldn't be such a big issue if it was the only issue, but it's not. Have the "people" not already spoken with their complaints to CR? What about the self-leveling rear shocks for instance that leak/lock-up, or make noise...a problem that has plaged the WK2 for four years now...and it's STILL an unresolved issue to this day...



Stop sucking up to a company that has screwed up...you look like an idiot.
Ugh. Well, I think you should stop attacking Chrysler as if they're the worst company in the world. There are a LOT of factors at play here and Chrysler thus far has done a fairly good job turning things around from where they used to be. It's a process...it isn't going to happen immediately.

There are a lot of things going on in this respect that you, as the consumer, are not really factoring in...you're just assuming it's unbelievable that such things can make it to production. Coming from an engineering side of things, I can say that I'm pretty amazed that there are as few issues as there are.

For one, the entire auto industry is playing technology catch up. I mean, hasn't anyone noticed that in the past vehicle technology was really fairly primitive compared to what was available commercially to the consumer in other aspects? Traditionally, the auto industry has moved glacially slow in this respect, so what little there was in terms of "high tech" electronics were able to be pretty well vetted out over years and years of test cycles. Today, that's no longer an option. Consumers are demanding more and more electronic features and to have them faster--and the companies have had to adjust to this--adopting a faster take rate for new features. As a result, you see a lot of the same issues you see with software on your desktop (think Windows, etc). Time to market matters. Along with this, software development cycles get shorter, so bugs do leak into the system. Vehicle development cycles have also compressed from the automotive standpoint as consumers demand more and more in less time.

Here are some other aspects that aren't considered. Many of these parts, including electronics, are not made by Chrysler (or whoever's brand is on the car). Rather, they are supplied by a separate company. So now you have another layer in there. And there are MANY politics that go on when you deal with suppliers. Let's talk about those shocks you mentioned. In all likelihood Chrysler didn't make those--a supplier did. Hmm...well, we just go to the supplier and tell them they need to fix those right? Doesn't quite work that nicely. The supplier may not want to fix them (or admit to an issue with them)--or--may give some insane contract price "adjustment" to fix the issue. Ah...so we threaten to remove them from being a supplier right? Eh...not so fast. It's very likely they make a bunch of other parts too, so immediately pulling their supplier contract would have serious repercussions. As in...work stoppage repercussions. And you may NOT have a secondary supplier right now, especially given the domestic auto manufacturer and supplier implosion a few years ago. The politics that have to go on in that environment can be insane, so I'm not entirely surprised it's gone this long without a definitive fix.

This happens with MANY auto manufacturers. Hmm...Toyota has had long standing issues with exhaust manifolds cracking on their 4.7L V8s. They NEVER changed that design. No updated part, no fix. Camry transmissions in the late 2000s. It took them years to change that design. BMW automatic transmissions in the mid-to-late 2000s--that same design went through a 4-year cycle without update before being changed. Etc...etc.

Back to the software though which is what I'm most familiar with. Most of the issues being reported are the type that I could easily see happening. Once you release a vehicle with new features like this, and a thousands and thousands of people start using the systems, things like this crop up. You simply CAN'T test all everything to that level and still get things out in a reasonable time. Plus, you don't have thousands and thousands of people to test in all these combinations. This is even MORE the case when you have multiple modules that interact, and it's possible that EVERY ONE OF THEM is made by a different supplier! And most certainly by a different group of developers even if they are from the same supplier. So NONE of them individually has direct access to or intimate knowledge of the internals of each one. The fact that they get them working together this well is pretty interesting in it's own right.

Let's talk about the impatience pertaining to the development cycle. Why is that temperature fix not out yet??? Simple...it's not the highest priority. There are any number of fixes being worked on...AS WELL AS NEW OR IMPROVED FEATURES for the next model cycle. They all have to go through a specification->development->test cycle. Rinse, lather, repeat. You have a release already out there, but even before that hit the cars you were working on a next set of features or bug fixes from the previous release as they went into the queue. Ooops...another bug report. Add it to the queue. It MAY NOT go into this next release (which may already be in it's QA cycle). You can't simply stop, go back, and make the change. That could add additional unforseen issues. The ONLY time you do that kind of thing is when you are dealing with a catastrophic issue (such as the cluster problem). That's a mess that takes months to sort out as you have to go back to a previous, stable code base, make your change, test that, fold everything in, release it, THEN go back and fold all those changes into the updated software you were working with regularly for the next scheduled release or model update. And I guarantee you, THAT will cause problems in and of itself and push that release out further.

Ahh...the dreaded "Vehicle phone requires service." Heh...that's Sierra Wireless to a T. I've had more than my fair share of dealings with them...and basically they undercut the competition price wise, you end up locked with them (my company is) then...later...you realize that they have LOADS of issues with their firmware. Back and forth and back and forth with them. You can try to switch suppliers but your hardware has already designed them in, so you continually try to work with them to fix the issue as stopping, redesigning, and switching them out would cost you a year at least, and millions of dollars. Finally, they either fix it or you find workarounds, and make the decision not to use them next time around. Yeah...that's the next development cycle and for my company it was FOUR YEARS. We are just now looking at ridding ourselves of that menace. Thing is...others aren't much better, and the ones that are, well...they're twice as expensive. And in the consumer space that means A LOT. Doubling the price of your phone module has a massive ripple-down effect and study after study shows that the average consumer will NOT pay double for practically ANYTHING even if it meant zero problems. I know...hard to believe right? Mostly this has to do with perception and tricks played with perception.

For example..."Vehicle Phone Requires Service" is likely the phone module locking up or being unresponsive for a certain amount of time. You only know about it because the diagnostic side of the external software detects this and TELLS you about it. So for something like that a "fix" might be to lengthen the time, or number of these events detected before it informed the user. They've probably already lengthened it or increased that number. It'll just be done a bit more until it reaches some percentile of units that never show the issue to the user. And you'll be fat, dumb, and happy about it. Yes...that's a "fix" that's been used MANY times for MANY things. You'd be surprised how many things out there in the world have "fixes" like that. Just FYI in that respect.
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Old 11-19-2013, 01:27 PM
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Re: Outside Temperature Sensor Problem

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Originally Posted by bill_de View Post

Relax ... I'm messing with you. But you might have had it coming.
I know...it's just you caught me in the middle of my rant.



Truth be told...this is my first Jeep product, and although I still enjoy my GC very much, I've never owned a vehicle that required this many "corrections" after purchasing...ever.

And I've owned a lot of vehicles not known for reliability...like a couple VWs (Scirocco & GTI), 2004 Mustang mach 1, 2008 EVO GSR, and a 2012 Subaru STI.
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Old 11-19-2013, 01:40 PM
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Re: Outside Temperature Sensor Problem

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Originally Posted by Peter_K View Post

Ugh. Well, I think you should stop attacking Chrysler as if they're the worst company in the world. There are a LOT of factors at play here and Chrysler thus far has done a fairly good job turning things around from where they used to be. It's a process...it isn't going to happen immediately.
In my mind it's not that I'm "attacking" Chrysler, just letting them know how unhappy I am with all the issues I've had with my Jeep. Chrysler may have improved greatly over the years, but this is MY first one, and to me their "Quality Control/Testing" still needs a lot of work.

I'm in the biotech industry myself, and my company would've been banned by the FDA if our quality control/testing was as bad as it seems Chrysler's is. It's as if the software is not fully tested before implementing or something...or an inadequate audit of the outside vendor was performed...if at all. Case in point, the outside temperature readout problems...how did they NOT know there was a problem with it when released? Who the heck tested it first?
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Old 11-19-2013, 01:50 PM
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Re: Outside Temperature Sensor Problem

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Originally Posted by GCLimited View Post
And I've owned a lot of vehicles not known for reliability...like a couple VWs (Scirocco & GTI), 2004 Mustang mach 1, 2008 EVO GSR, and a 2012 Subaru STI.
No wonder we bicker, we are cut from the same basic cloth... I own an Evo 9 (most reliable car I've ever owned), have had several WRXs along side the Evo, a Mustang, tinkered with Sciroccos in HS.
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Old 11-19-2013, 02:09 PM
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Re: Outside Temperature Sensor Problem

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Originally Posted by TurboRush View Post

No wonder we bicker, we are cut from the same basic cloth... I own an Evo 9 (most reliable car I've ever owned), have had several WRXs along side the Evo, a Mustang, tinkered with Sciroccos in HS.
I loved all those cars I owned, and I don't remember bringing them back to the dealership for warranty work more than once for each car...bought them all new, and I owned them each for 2 years or more (I owned the mach 1 for 4 years).

Forgot I owned a 2007 WRX Limited as well...that car (modded to Stage 2) was more fun to drive than the Stage 1 2012 STI was.
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Old 11-19-2013, 02:17 PM
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Re: Outside Temperature Sensor Problem

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Originally Posted by TurboRush View Post
Whats disturbing about it? I can think of a lot of other horrors that could occur... like, like,. what if you had to click the rear hatch button, 3, maybe even 4x!!!
I have to click my rear hatch button 4 times to get it to open. It's a small thing I've gotten used to no big deal to me
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