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  #121  
Old 07-15-2013, 02:04 AM
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They confirmed its my shocks and will be replaced.
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  #122  
Old 07-15-2013, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher58 View Post
After my last banging adventure where I filled a lot of places up with lithium grease and made the noise go away,I made it a week before it came back on right rear. I pulled the dust cover, joust cover and just crammed the accessible side of the shock mount with lithium grease yesterday---noise is gone. I examined the shock mount design as I was in there and I was amazed at what I was seeing. About 1/3 of the shock mount is hanging out in space unsupported. The side that fits up against the inside aspect is screwed directly into whatever metal that is. The outside 1/3 toward the wheel side of the mount is unsupported. I can put my finger between the top of the mount and the body. I can feel the upper end of the rod and what feels like a cheap ass c clip. As I see it, any motion of the vehicle laterally would cause some flex in the mount and/or metal its attached to since the wheel side of the mount is cantilevered out toward the wheel like a diving board. If I am correct, this means that the mount site was not designed correctly. I'm thinking that's why they keep redesigning the mount which then makes them change the shock. I am no shock expert-this is just a hypothesis based on what I am seeing. If I am correct, then there may not be enough of a shelf for the shock mount to ever have enough support to stand up to lateral torque and not clunk unless some serious welding goes on. Since the quadra lift uses different shocks, seems like it would produce more torque on the shock from the air springs extending than a non tow package jeep. It would also explain why most of us have had shocks blow out--the shock would be torqued apart from the lateral force. I may be totally wrong but everything fits the profile of what has been happening. It would also explain why something that would seem ridiculously easy to fix isn't. What I cannot believe is that they left the freaking design in that area the same for 4 model years. There is NO way they did not know it was a problem and did the same freaking thing for FOUR YEARS!---follow the money! We wouldn't want to spend the money to retool something on the assembly line...That's a wee bit cynical but I am an optimist....Jimmy Hoffa and Elvis are alive!!!!
That's a find! Thank you for your investigation! That looks like a thought to follow. I know that the SRTs had a similar problem and they have a TSB which just replaced the shock mount (similar to the Non SL shocks). So all TSBs for the Non-SL shocks are dealing with the mount. There is also a thread somewhere here where somebody compares the SLS with non SLS (he was fitting is car with the SLS). Would like to know your thoughts an this.

Maybe there is a possibility to use the other shock mounts (if they are more sturdy) and replace the SLS ones?

Edit: look in the Aussie rattle thread the discussion on the shock mount starts at post #629
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  #123  
Old 07-15-2013, 06:44 PM
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Re: Rearend or rear suspension clunk/creak

Quote:
Originally Posted by berk483 View Post
Yeah someone posted with load leveling shock noise on a 14.
I have a 14 with the air suspension and I have the same problem it appears. Haven't gone to the dealership yet though.
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  #124  
Old 07-16-2013, 09:43 AM
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Re: Rearend or rear suspension clunk/creak

If you go back in this thread and others, you will see I had my rear LL shocks replaced with a new set back in late 2012. I have now over 10K miles since the replacement (just turning 20K on the odometer), and gone through an entire winter (with some pretty crappy weather, lots of salt and sand, lots of snow) that gave the new shocks a real workout. My rear end thunking noise (softballs in a plastic bucket) has not returned. As mentioned in my prior posts, which included info from the repair orders, a difference on my repair was that the dealer also removed the rear sway bar and replaced the bushings with new ones. All parts replaced were the same Part Numbers as the originals specified for my 2012 GC. And I waited almost 2 months on national backorder to get those. Best luck.
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  #125  
Old 07-16-2013, 01:29 PM
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Watcher 58, your thoughts didn't let me rest. My thoughts with regards to your observation are in relation to the pictures and discussions of the "rear knocking Aussie jeep" thread starting at post #629:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher58 View Post
... I examined the shock mount design as I was in there and I was amazed at what I was seeing. About 1/3 of the shock mount is hanging out in space unsupported.
I guess that kind of dampens even the noise as the contact area is minimized. On the other hand it allows more flexing. As you can see in the pictures of the standard shock mounts, they have an additional baseplate and also the TSB of the SRT8 shocks recommends to keep that baseplate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher58 View Post
... The side that fits up against the inside aspect is screwed directly into whatever metal that is.
I had the thought of putting some rubber in between these metals to interrupt the noise transmission. Something like a 1000V mat of the electricians. disadvantage, you get more flexing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher58 View Post
... The outside 1/3 toward the wheel side of the mount is unsupported. I can put my finger between the top of the mount and the body. I can feel the upper end of the rod and what feels like a cheap ass c clip.
Actually, there is a thick nut on the rod (see pictures #632). The difference between the SLS and the standard is that the current version of the standard (there have been three TSBs to fix the rattle with them) have a thick rubber piece what dampens the noise apparently. The experiment Jeep_addicted did was knicking the rod with some metal and there was a different sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher58 View Post
...As I see it, any motion of the vehicle laterally would cause some flex in the mount and/or metal its attached to since the wheel side of the mount is cantilevered out toward the wheel like a diving board. If I am correct, this means that the mount site was not designed correctly.
I kind of disagree, there shouldn't be any forces laterally to the shock as they go into the other parts of the suspension. only force should be in line with the rod. in reality there might be some lateral forces and they might open the play with the mount the rod to support the rattle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher58 View Post
...I'm thinking that's why they keep redesigning the mount which then makes them change the shock. I am no shock expert-this is just a hypothesis based on what I am seeing. If I am correct, then there may not be enough of a shelf for the shock mount to ever have enough support to stand up to lateral torque and not clunk unless some serious welding goes on. Since the quadra lift uses different shocks, seems like it would produce more torque on the shock from the air springs extending than a non tow package jeep.
I tend to follow the hypothesis from Jeep_addicted in this case; meaning they redesign the mount to dampen the noise and reduce the play between the two parts. There is probably to much movement in the mount of the rod (in line with the rod) so the rod mount rattles with its seat maybe even against the wheel well. I haven't seen thaT life, might require a mounted webcam looking at the shock mount during driving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher58 View Post
...It would also explain why most of us have had shocks blow out--the shock would be torqued apart from the lateral force.
I guess that is more related to the more complex design of the SLS compared to a standard shock, subsequently they are more prone for failures. Add bad quality control (most expensive part in production) and here you are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher58 View Post
...I may be totally wrong but everything fits the profile of what has been happening. It would also explain why something that would seem ridiculously easy to fix isn't. What I cannot believe is that they left the freaking design in that area the same for 4 model years. There is NO way they did not know it was a problem and did the same freaking thing for FOUR YEARS!---follow the money! We wouldn't want to spend the money to retool something on the assembly line...That's a wee bit cynical but I am an optimist....Jimmy Hoffa and Elvis are alive!!!!
I guess it isn't easy to fix; to locate the source of the noise is a hard task, is it the shock or the mount and what are the conditions?

Let's summarize the conditions when the rattle happens (please correct/add):
- rattle is caused by going of short bumps in speeds lower then 25mph
- three different types of shocks have been involved
* standard shocks got a different mount, greasing and adjusted dust boots => rattle resolved
* SRT8 shocks got a different mount although the baseplate from the old is recommended to be taken over instead of the new one, also there was some programming of the stiffness of the shocks as it was mentioned that they were to short and bumping against there stopper => rattle resolved
* SLS with their fourth revision and no improvement (does anybody know what has actually been redesigned?) => unresolved
- filling the gaps in the shock mounts with grease is a temporary solution
- lower temperatures reduce the rattle also, it gets worse in the summertime
- new shocks don't have a rattle but probability is high they develop one after 5 to 10k miles
- replacement of sway bar bushings and connectors helps sometimes or supports reduction

So what's the education of all of this?
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  #126  
Old 07-20-2013, 09:56 AM
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Re: Rearend or rear suspension clunk/creak

Let's summarize the conditions when the rattle happens (please correct/add):
- rattle is caused by going of short bumps in speeds lower then 25mph
- three different types of shocks have been involved
* standard shocks got a different mount, greasing and adjusted dust boots => rattle resolved
* SRT8 shocks got a different mount although the baseplate from the old is recommended to be taken over instead of the new one, also there was some programming of the stiffness of the shocks as it was mentioned that they were to short and bumping against there stopper => rattle resolved
* SLS with their fourth revision and no improvement (does anybody know what has actually been redesigned?) => unresolved
- filling the gaps in the shock mounts with grease is a temporary solution
- lower temperatures reduce the rattle also, it gets worse in the summertime
- new shocks don't have a rattle but probability is high they develop one after 5 to 10k miles
- replacement of sway bar bushings and connectors helps sometimes or supports reduction

So what's the education of all of this?

One update, the side I thought was clunking turned out to be the other side which I had not placed grease between the mount and frame so I can't say yet how long this lasts--just that at the moment I am clunk free.

Items learned:

Jeep made a high end luxury suv but did not consider the every day road driver going over llittle bumps and torquing the vehicle-slightly- and did not
thoroughly test this type of operation of the vehicle...or they heard it and ignored it.

The problem is definitely the upper shock mount and its connection to the shock and also it's general design. Look at the mounts for the front shocks-no way they are moving and mounted into heavy duty framed cage. Now look at the back--shock mounts are a piece of plastic. Traditionally rear shock mounts don't have to be as heavy duty as the front since the wheels are not steering and don't have an engine sitting on top of them. This model jeep asks the rear end to manage many more varied force vectors than a traditional model but the designers apparently thought "Awww that plastic piece will work-on other things!"--round 1. Round 2-"people are complaining about clunking but not all that many--tell them just to put some grease and liquid rubber on the thing--it'll be fine" Round 3 "damn those guys on Jeep Garage-they keep making a stink about this. Make the mount a little heavier duty-that will do it" (NOT!) Round 4 "OOOOKKKK well let's see lets try a different shock" Round 5 "Oh crap--anybody got an idea for another shock?? Good idea Bob-change the last letter on the part number and pray!" Round 6 "This is getting deep--2011 and 2012 are making the noise-maybe 2013 will be a better year!" Round 7 " Hmmm 2013 makes the same noise--well guys hoping and praying didn't cure the problem. Lets play some more---uhh try changing all these rubber bushing thingys and shocks and mounts....and those parts are gonne be backordered how long?? Round 8 Ha HA! parts arrive "lets put those new parts and rubber thingys on....oh crap-that didn't work either" Round 9 lets hope people sell these and leave us alone. Lets concentrate on the 2014.
Round 10 "Did you say some owners are reporting the same noise as the previous years? Oh Gosh Golly Darn!!!!! Why would using the same basic design for different model years make them all have the same noise?"-(The pig asks-she didn't really say that , did she?) Round 11---we are back to round 1.

The educational enlightment lesson???---they can't fix it without spending more money that they want. They have other problems to fix and this is like number 147 on a list of 500. China likes to be paid for all the plastic shock mounts and will put them on back order if they don't get paid..and unfortunately the shock mounts from the Barbie Corvette have been ruled out! If it's not where the shock attaches to the mount, then it's where the mount attaches to the body (Since globbing grease between mount and body quiets it although the length of time is being tracked by this crazy Watcher 58 guy)

The moral of the story--"He who bought 2011 to 2014 is screwed if he doesn't like clunks!
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  #127  
Old 07-20-2013, 07:25 PM
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Re: Rearend or rear suspension clunk/creak

Since the ML350 and the GC are sort of cousins, is the merc having the same problems and do they mound their shocks differently?
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  #128  
Old 07-21-2013, 07:42 AM
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Re: Rearend or rear suspension clunk/creak

900 miles no clunk from the AD shocks yet.... will report back if I have the noise come back..
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  #129  
Old 07-21-2013, 01:56 PM
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Re: Rearend or rear suspension clunk/creak

I gave in trade in my GC with Shock problem yesterday.
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  #130  
Old 07-21-2013, 07:05 PM
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Clunking is back made a couple of trips around town and clunk clunk clunk. 920 miles after the ad's were put on. Nono what did you buy?
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  #131  
Old 07-21-2013, 08:47 PM
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Re: Rearend or rear suspension clunk/creak

2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4x4. They paid a lot for my car, so I decided to be a good customer and make them pay for their sins. They paid so good I decided to step up to the Overland which in Puerto Rico is not cheap.
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  #132  
Old 07-23-2013, 06:23 AM
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Re: Rearend or rear suspension clunk/creak

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2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4x4. They paid a lot for my car, so I decided to be a good customer and make them pay for their sins. They paid so good I decided to step up to the Overland which in Puerto Rico is not cheap.
Good luck with your 2014.
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