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  #25  
Old 02-10-2011, 06:01 PM
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Re: Stuck between Jeep and a hard place.... lemon law time.

Understodd and sorry if I came across abrasive mate. I didn't mean to.

Unfortunately it just seems if you get a "bad" one, you get a "bad" one. There's been no reasonable explantion as to why they can't tune this out of them.

As I've said elsewhere, my opinion is that it's simply poor programming of the lockup torque convertor cutting in whilst MDS is activating. Maybe a "new" convertor will fix it, one can only hope!
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Old 02-10-2011, 06:48 PM
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Re: Stuck between Jeep and a hard place.... lemon law time.

Any idea Marlin, based on your experience, the percentage of "bad" ones there are?

My wife's WK2 is due by the end of the month and I feel like I'm gambling all of the sudden.
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:23 PM
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Re: Stuck between Jeep and a hard place.... lemon law time.

In the STAR case I read today they talked about two different problem with shuddering. One, where the converter shutter under partial lock up (partial lock up is a normal condition) with slip over 30% (measured with a computer). Two, where the shutter is with the converter locked up (slip less than 10%). In these two cases, the converter replacement is the the fix (so they say) for the first (partial lock). If you get the shudder with the converter locked, the converter replacment is not the cure for your problems.
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:43 PM
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Re: Stuck between Jeep and a hard place.... lemon law time.

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Originally Posted by 3rdgearisheaven View Post
Any idea Marlin, based on your experience, the percentage of "bad" ones there are?

My wife's WK2 is due by the end of the month and I feel like I'm gambling all of the sudden.
It's hard to say, because of course anyone concerned enough to join a forum to discuss it means we're getting a magnified view of the problem. But I'd hazard a guess and say, ummmm, 20% have it bad enough to complain?
regardless, it wouldn't stop me buying one, if you do happen to get it, you quickly learn to drive around it, just flicking the autostick over one tap to lockout the overdrive halts any shudder.

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Originally Posted by mrpositraction View Post
In the STAR case I read today they talked about two different problem with shuddering. One, where the converter shutter under partial lock up (partial lock up is a normal condition) with slip over 30% (measured with a computer). Two, where the shutter is with the converter locked up (slip less than 10%). In these two cases, the converter replacement is the the fix (so they say) for the first (partial lock). If you get the shudder with the converter locked, the converter replacment is not the cure for your problems.
Yeah I'd agree with that. In this case it appears the MDS firing order conflicts with the lockup timing.
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Old 02-10-2011, 08:51 PM
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Re: Stuck between Jeep and a hard place.... lemon law time.

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Well, I don't think they are going to issue bulletins if they don't have a part to fix the problem. That's probably why no one's heard of it. The torque converter I had replaced, had metal shavings and was scored on the interior according to my service reciept. Certainly some kind of issue there.
And I don't see how a mount would fix a shudder which is clearly felt only during certain speeds, shifting, changes on uphill and downhill slopes, and gets more violent when weight is added to the vehicle. Clearly it is related to the powertrain itself.

Another member of this forum just had his isolators replaced only to get the vehicle back and still have the shudder.
I'm not saying the mount will fix it.We had one that it seems to have fixed.That has nothing to do with your situation,I'm just sayin'.I was just curious.As far as bulletins coming out before the parts being available,that happens all the time.They may have been advised to replace the converter by STAR because of a known issue that Chrysler is trying to keep quiet.There may never be any bulletin.
As far as your converter having metal and scoring inside,unless they cut it open ,they are feeding you a line of BS about that.And I can assure you that they didn't cut it open.That part will be called back by Chrysler and if its cut open,Chrysler will probably deny the claim and not pay the dealer.
In any case,I wish you luck with your situation,and I hope it works out for you.
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Old 02-10-2011, 08:52 PM
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Re: Stuck between Jeep and a hard place.... lemon law time.

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Originally Posted by Marlin View Post
Understodd and sorry if I came across abrasive mate. I didn't mean to.

Unfortunately it just seems if you get a "bad" one, you get a "bad" one. There's been no reasonable explantion as to why they can't tune this out of them.

As I've said elsewhere, my opinion is that it's simply poor programming of the lockup torque convertor cutting in whilst MDS is activating. Maybe a "new" convertor will fix it, one can only hope!
No problem, I didn't have any problem with your comments.
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  #31  
Old 02-10-2011, 09:10 PM
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Re: Stuck between Jeep and a hard place.... lemon law time.

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Mate, this same shudder issue has been a bug-bear right through the original WK too with this driveline. There's no need to include Rams, there's a TON of info on here about it in the WK area

That is why many of us who own or owned WK's with the Hemi, are so looking forward to a completely new transmission, as after six + years of trying, they haven't been abl;e to cure the problem.

The problem may be that this Jeep looks and rides so nice during a test drive it attracts people unfamiliar with the brand like me. It drew me away from the Honda brand. I never knew about the history with this chassis. I don't know how it would have changed my buy decision but I guess I wish I had known about it.

Chrysler got their wish: they are pulling people away from other brands and putting them in new Jeep's. How they handle this issue will be very telling about the new Chrysler. It will be very important for them to make this right, and quickly.

20% seems like a very high number of people with an issue and who complain. I am a Sales / Product Manager for a profitable small business. I can tell you that if 20% of my customers were unhappy OR there was a 20% defective rate on one of my products it would not go on for years. But maybe the new Chrysler will fix this in short order. Let's hope because my ideal situation would be to have a shudder free Jeep. Not have to fight with them over some buy-back clause.
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:19 PM
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Re: Stuck between Jeep and a hard place.... lemon law time.

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Originally Posted by 3rdgearisheaven View Post
Any idea Marlin, based on your experience, the percentage of "bad" ones there are?

My wife's WK2 is due by the end of the month and I feel like I'm gambling all of the sudden.


Did Shudder TSB fix a problem? 2011 Shudder problems thread
Read from post #89 where I asked the same question. Milous answered it in #93 I think...
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  #33  
Old 02-11-2011, 12:18 AM
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Re: Stuck between Jeep and a hard place.... lemon law time.

good luck, but you are going to spend alot of money on a lawyer only to just get a new part in a month like you would have anyway. they are not going to replace a vehicle based on a shudder than most hemis have going back to the WK.
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Old 02-11-2011, 03:05 AM
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Re: Stuck between Jeep and a hard place.... lemon law time.

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good luck, but you are going to spend alot of money on a lawyer only to just get a new part in a month like you would have anyway. they are not going to replace a vehicle based on a shudder than most hemis have going back to the WK.
If he thinks it's a problem, why should he wait? Especially for something that may or may not happen? Weren't the RHR's supposed to be out mid-January and now we're looking at March?

Incorrect on the lemon law. The manufacturer pays legal expenses if they lose a lemon law case. Most layers will review a case first gratis to determine if it has merit. If it does, most of them will agree to do it on a contingency basis, therefore no out of pocket.

The statute is quite clear, greater than or equal to 3 times for the same repair or greater than 30 days out of the owner's possession.
Vehicle was in 3 times for the same repair. If he tries to sell it and the shudder affects the inherent resale value of the vehicle, it's an even bigger problem.

I can appreciate the loyalty that some folks have here but in the end, if Jeep isn't fixing the issues with the vehicle in a reasonable period, it's his right to file under the lemon law. If they don't want folks to file under the Lemon Law, Jeep has 2 options... get shit right up front or ensure that all dealerships have skilled techs.
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  #35  
Old 02-24-2011, 11:11 PM
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Re: Stuck between Jeep and a hard place.... lemon law time.

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Originally Posted by litespeedz View Post
The problem may be that this Jeep looks and rides so nice during a test drive it attracts people unfamiliar with the brand like me. It drew me away from the Honda brand. I never knew about the history with this chassis. I don't know how it would have changed my buy decision but I guess I wish I had known about it.

Chrysler got their wish: they are pulling people away from other brands and putting them in new Jeep's. How they handle this issue will be very telling about the new Chrysler. It will be very important for them to make this right, and quickly.

20% seems like a very high number of people with an issue and who complain. I am a Sales / Product Manager for a profitable small business. I can tell you that if 20% of my customers were unhappy OR there was a 20% defective rate on one of my products it would not go on for years. But maybe the new Chrysler will fix this in short order. Let's hope because my ideal situation would be to have a shudder free Jeep. Not have to fight with them over some buy-back clause.
I can relate to this comment. I'm reading this forum and this thread right now to do research to evaluate purchasing a Summit. I've never owned a Chrysler product before (although my mother had a JGC before and loved it and has driven a Town & Country now for years and loves that). I've been a Volvo owner for many years and have loved them all. I'm trying to be rational about this whole thing since I know all cars have their issues. For example, S70s were famous for tranny problems as they neared 100k but as long as you changed the fluid with every oil change you were fine. Heater cores were also a royal PITA on that car along with other niggly electrical issues. But what alarms me more about this situation with the shudder is that is has reportedly existed for so long, is hit or miss but still frequently seen, and there is no solution. I mean I'm okay with some semi-major repairs but usually expect that after a few years of ownership, not at <1000 miles. Sometimes ignorance is bliss I suppose. Still I guess I would rather be an informed consumer by reading all the great information on this board than being ignorant.

BTW, this board is freaking ACTIVE!
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