So i have decided to pursue the Virginia lemon law...and here's why.
I have had the shudder in my Jeep from 2,960 miles until now, at 5,960 miles. I have had my Jeep in for the following services in the last 3 months:
#1 TSB update for shudder - fixed it for a day
#2 returned to service for shudder, evaluated, torque converter was replaced, along with a broken shifter cable that the dealer broke.
- fixed it for a day
#3 re-evaluated with help of Chrysler tech and this is the result that set me off......
I was told there are two models of torque converters available for use in our Jeeps, an old one and a new one. The old one was ordered and placed in my vehicle, it won't fix the problem because the new one is the fix. My dealer was told by Chrysler that the official fix for the shudder is to replace the torque converter with the newer model. But the new torque converter is not available at this time. Why you ask? Great question.........
Answer: Because it has not gone into production and it may be a month before it does.
So basically I have to drive the Jeep, with the shudder, and now an occasional clunk until they make the part to fix my Jeep. I can not even trade this one in if I wanted to get rid of it, because no dealer in their right mind is going to take it.
I have given Chrysler enough time to provide me with a new Jeep and take this one back, but I have not received a response. I feel like I have no choice but to make lemonade.
This is the first I have heard about the torque converter.In fact I tried to find info on Dealerconnect and there is nothing at the moment.Also checked Chrysler STAR and still nothing.There is a STAR case that came out in October to replace one of the mounts for the front differential.This is supposed to "fix" the shudder.Did your dealer try that?
Well, I don't think they are going to issue bulletins if they don't have a part to fix the problem. That's probably why no one's heard of it. The torque converter I had replaced, had metal shavings and was scored on the interior according to my service reciept. Certainly some kind of issue there.
And I don't see how a mount would fix a shudder which is clearly felt only during certain speeds, shifting, changes on uphill and downhill slopes, and gets more violent when weight is added to the vehicle. Clearly it is related to the powertrain itself.
Another member of this forum just had his isolators replaced only to get the vehicle back and still have the shudder.
I think all states have different lemon laws....Virginia's is....
"If you have tried unsuccessfully to have your new vehicle (purchased in Virginia) repaired three or more times for the same problem, or the vehicle has been out of service for more than thirty days in one year, your vehicle may be classified as a lemon under the Virginia Motor Vehicle Warranty Enforcement Act."
Pursue this vigorously. Do not be discouraged. It's very easy for casual observers to give Jeep the benefit of the doubt and act like the customer is not right. You have been inconvenienced. Service has been poor. You paid a LOT of money. Do not settle.
That's my pep talk. I hope you are emboldened. Make it their problem. For what you paid you should be happy.
Their defense would be proving that the problem does not "significantly impair the use, market value, or safety of the motor vehicle" which I bet they could successfully do.
Lemon laws usually only cover problems where the vehicle is inoperable or unsafe. i.e., if the vehicle has an unfixable problem, but it's still capable of getting you safely from point A to point B, then lemon law usually doesn't apply. Virginia's law seems to lean that direction, too.
I also questioned the dealer about long term issues arising from this issue, they gave the scripted answer that they have 100,000 mile powertrain warranty that would cover any of those problems.
Wow, I am shocked by reading this and so many questions come to mind. It also makes me really paranoid. How in the world do they have two torque converters for this car? Is that two torque converters for V8 4x4 or V8 QDII? Does this mean they are finally acknowledging that something is wrong? And what is the difference between the old and the new? How do they plan to roll this out to existing owners? Will there be a formal recall?
I am not too worried about them taking these things apart and putting them back together. At least it is all fairly new and corrosion or stripping bolts is unlikely. It is all designed for repair and replacement. But I hadn't thought about the Torque converter causing problems for the transmission. Yikes!
When I took mine in (twice) the dealer told me that "Let the torque converter get through it's 6k mile break-in period. This is all normal. You are well within the 36k miles and 100k miles warranty. So don't worry." Why do I feel like if my car (which has some similar weird issues with shudder and downshifting / acceleration) has to go through these replacements I will be compelled to buy the Chrysler extended warranty to make sure that I don't pay for this down the road?
Has anyone heard from Milous on this issue? He always seems to have the inside scoop on these things. I would be curious to hear what Chrysler is planning to do about this.
Good luck with the lemon law. I think you'll have more luck getting them to swap it for something new.
Yeah i knew it was based on time/miles, just not sure how its calculated. (ie. is it .20/.50 per mile, 1/10000 of vehicle purchase price per mile, etc.)
Yeah i knew it was based on time/miles, just not sure how its calculated. (ie. is it .20/.50 per mile, 1/10000 of vehicle purchase price per mile, etc.)
I find this all very interesting considering I thought the 5.7L drivetrain, including the transmission were brought over directly from the RAM pickups. It seems odd that WK2's would see a problem that hasn't been widespread on the Ram's. The 5.7L and 545 trans are one of the few things in this "totally redesigned" Grand Cherokee that aren't new!
If it's load related then mine will get a dose real quick when I hook up my 5000 lb enclosed trailer and haul it 3000 miles in April..........
Edit: I did some quick digging on dodgeforum.com and the stutter issue is widely know and Dodge does not have a fix at this point. Seems to be 4X2 or 4X2 (rules out the transfer case isolators) and is most pronounced when it's in MDS mode. That might explain why there's a new TC coming out since it might be an issue on their entire 5.7L MDS Hemi lineup. http://dodgeforum.com/forum/4th-gen-ram/266798-mds-tcc-droan-shutter-issues-response-from-dodge.html
I find this all very interesting considering I thought the 5.7L drivetrain, including the transmission were brought over directly from the RAM pickups. It seems odd that WK2's would see a problem that hasn't been widespread on the Ram's. The 5.7L and 545 trans are one of the few things in this "totally redesigned" Grand Cherokee that aren't new!
If it's load related then mine will get a dose real quick when I hook up my 5000 lb enclosed trailer and haul it 3000 miles in April..........
Edit: I did some quick digging on dodgeforum.com and the stutter issue is widely know and Dodge does not have a fix at this point. Seems to be 4X2 or 4X2 (rules out the transfer case isolators) and is most pronounced when it's in MDS mode. That might explain why there's a new TC coming out since it might be an issue on their entire 5.7L MDS Hemi lineup. http://dodgeforum.com/forum/4th-gen-ram/266798-mds-tcc-droan-shutter-issues-response-from-dodge.html
Mate, this same shudder issue has been a bug-bear right through the original WK too with this driveline. There's no need to include Rams, there's a TON of info on here about it in the WK area
That is why many of us who own or owned WK's with the Hemi, are so looking forward to a completely new transmission, as after six + years of trying, they haven't been abl;e to cure the problem.
I would be careful. I went through a lemon law case back in Fl. In 2001. I bought a new chevy S10 blazer and sometimes it would not start or it would just plain die while I was driving it. It took over a year to get it solved. During that whole time I was forced to drive a car that at any time would die on me. Finally when GM admitted there was a problem the deducted miles and wear and tear on the vehicle. They didn't deduct miles when the problem started it was when I turned it in. I had it die on me when it had less than 50 miles on it (less than 24 hours of ownership). When I turned it in it had around 12,000 miles on it. They ending up deducting just about what I owed on it after making payments on it for over a year. And when it was all said and done I got about $200.00 back. I paid over $7,000 in payments over the year. I lost $6800.00 on the deal.
I was very upset and swore to never buy or drive another GM product again.
Actually just googled michigan, the manufacturer has the option to replace your vehicle or your can demand a refund minus the usage cost which is (the mileage at your first report of the problem/100000) * purchase price.
florida as stated above is total miles are return time /120000 * purchase price
Understodd and sorry if I came across abrasive mate. I didn't mean to.
Unfortunately it just seems if you get a "bad" one, you get a "bad" one. There's been no reasonable explantion as to why they can't tune this out of them.
As I've said elsewhere, my opinion is that it's simply poor programming of the lockup torque convertor cutting in whilst MDS is activating. Maybe a "new" convertor will fix it, one can only hope!
It's hard to say, because of course anyone concerned enough to join a forum to discuss it means we're getting a magnified view of the problem. But I'd hazard a guess and say, ummmm, 20% have it bad enough to complain?
regardless, it wouldn't stop me buying one, if you do happen to get it, you quickly learn to drive around it, just flicking the autostick over one tap to lockout the overdrive halts any shudder.
In the STAR case I read today they talked about two different problem with shuddering. One, where the converter shutter under partial lock up (partial lock up is a normal condition) with slip over 30% (measured with a computer). Two, where the shutter is with the converter locked up (slip less than 10%). In these two cases, the converter replacement is the the fix (so they say) for the first (partial lock). If you get the shudder with the converter locked, the converter replacment is not the cure for your problems.
In the STAR case I read today they talked about two different problem with shuddering. One, where the converter shutter under partial lock up (partial lock up is a normal condition) with slip over 30% (measured with a computer). Two, where the shutter is with the converter locked up (slip less than 10%). In these two cases, the converter replacement is the the fix (so they say) for the first (partial lock). If you get the shudder with the converter locked, the converter replacment is not the cure for your problems.
good luck, but you are going to spend alot of money on a lawyer only to just get a new part in a month like you would have anyway. they are not going to replace a vehicle based on a shudder than most hemis have going back to the WK.
good luck, but you are going to spend alot of money on a lawyer only to just get a new part in a month like you would have anyway. they are not going to replace a vehicle based on a shudder than most hemis have going back to the WK.
If he thinks it's a problem, why should he wait? Especially for something that may or may not happen? Weren't the RHR's supposed to be out mid-January and now we're looking at March?
Incorrect on the lemon law. The manufacturer pays legal expenses if they lose a lemon law case. Most layers will review a case first gratis to determine if it has merit. If it does, most of them will agree to do it on a contingency basis, therefore no out of pocket.
The statute is quite clear, greater than or equal to 3 times for the same repair or greater than 30 days out of the owner's possession.
Vehicle was in 3 times for the same repair. If he tries to sell it and the shudder affects the inherent resale value of the vehicle, it's an even bigger problem.
I can appreciate the loyalty that some folks have here but in the end, if Jeep isn't fixing the issues with the vehicle in a reasonable period, it's his right to file under the lemon law. If they don't want folks to file under the Lemon Law, Jeep has 2 options... get shit right up front or ensure that all dealerships have skilled techs.
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