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  #85  
Old 08-22-2012, 07:11 PM
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Re: STUCK IN SAND with 4WD malfunction

On a dodgy connection, but the story so far:
- track from Wanggoolba Creek to Eurong in deep sand, with trailer and such the "SERV4WD" error with 1km to go. Was in 4 low so not sure if this caused the error or just the 18" sand. Reset at Eurong and all good
- Indian Head no problems, got up and over and saw Prado towing a boat get stuck
- Waddy point was much harder than Indian head but the Jeep made it no issues
- Poyungan Rocks, really rough but in OR2, no issues
- Toyota and Nissian owners staring at the Jeep and trailer = 100% of 500+ people and vehicles

More to come
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  #86  
Old 08-22-2012, 08:31 PM
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Re: STUCK IN SAND with 4WD malfunction

Carver, How did you reset the error? I could not get mine to reset on its own.

Today I returned to the dealership to have the "fix" applied to mine. The repair was a Dynamic ABS Sensor and is located/accessed through the center console. Took about 2 hours to install. I will not be able to get to any sand for several months so I won't know for sure if this "fix" is the real deal or not. I sure hope it is!!!

According to the service writer, this was the repair that Jeep Engineers came up with and this is the first time this particular dealership performed this repair.

p.s. I also got a new glove box to replace the one with a rattle and I am glad to report that the new one is 100% rattle free (so far)!
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  #87  
Old 08-23-2012, 10:41 AM
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Re: STUCK IN SAND with 4WD malfunction

Has anyone tried contacting any outside agencies or media to put more pressure on Chrysler to fix these problems?

I contacted a journalist from Automotive News (who wrote an article about the Pentastar head issues) to see if he would be interested in researching this but he wasn't. I didn't realize he pretty much works for the industry. Here was his response...

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for writing. I reviewed what you wrote on the forums, which I monitor from time to time as resources allow. While I understand your frustration, I'm not sure the issue is widespread enough for a publication like Automotive News to cover. Because we write mostly for dealers and the auto industry, we don't typically do much of the consumer-oriented journalism that other publications and Web sites do. The Pentastar story was an exception because of the potential size and scope of the issue.

I wish I had a more satisfactory response for you Jeff. Thank you for reading.

Sincerely,
Larry Vellequette


I think my next step is to send out some emails to other consumer-oriented publications to see if someone would be interested in picking up on this issue and getting the news out there to inform other potential JGC purchasers of this problem, and Jeep's slow response to fix it.
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:21 PM
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Re: STUCK IN SAND with 4WD malfunction

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMWK2 View Post

I'm fairly certain in lo range in the GC the rear and centre diffs lock - but is this really desirable on sand?

So what is the situation with diff locks?

I think I'll do some research today.
Far as I can tell only the centre diff is locked in Lo range. Id you don't have quadra drive then the rear diff is open and never locked. If you do have quadra drive then the rear diff only locks on demand when wheel spin is sensed. Front diff is open in all models, but the ECU can apply the brake to a wheel without traction so that the other gets power.
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  #89  
Old 08-23-2012, 10:44 PM
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Re: STUCK IN SAND with 4WD malfunction

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgiuliani View Post
Has anyone tried contacting any outside agencies or media to put more pressure on Chrysler to fix these problems?

I contacted a journalist from Automotive News (who wrote an article about the Pentastar head issues) to see if he would be interested in researching this but he wasn't. I didn't realize he pretty much works for the industry. Here was his response...

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for writing. I reviewed what you wrote on the forums, which I monitor from time to time as resources allow. While I understand your frustration, I'm not sure the issue is widespread enough for a publication like Automotive News to cover. Because we write mostly for dealers and the auto industry, we don't typically do much of the consumer-oriented journalism that other publications and Web sites do. The Pentastar story was an exception because of the potential size and scope of the issue.

I wish I had a more satisfactory response for you Jeff. Thank you for reading.

Sincerely,
Larry Vellequette


I think my next step is to send out some emails to other consumer-oriented publications to see if someone would be interested in picking up on this issue and getting the news out there to inform other potential JGC purchasers of this problem, and Jeep's slow response to fix it.

jgiuliani,

there seems to be some movement in the media in Australia - check out this thread.
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  #90  
Old 08-24-2012, 08:41 PM
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Re: STUCK IN SAND with 4WD malfunction

Quote:
there seems to be some movement in the media in Australia
Yes - a few of us have notified one of the 4x4 magazines. here in Oz.
Basically we are getting told by Chrysler Australia that the "fix" needs to come from USA.

Anything you guys can do in the to apply pressure to HQ there would be greatly appreciated.
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  #91  
Old 08-25-2012, 08:56 AM
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Re: STUCK IN SAND with 4WD malfunction

Right, it's all done and I need a place to dump some videos and pictures of all the good, bad and just pure Jeep. So this is for a Overland CRD with QuadraDrive 2 and select-terrain, plus the off-road kit for the 18" wheels and plates.

The trip for me started at WanggoOlga Creek as the ferry operator advised the exit from Kingfisher would likely be a bit steep with the trailer on. Got across and due to all I heard I selected 4wd Low, with sus in OR1 height. Drove through without too many dramas to Central for a bit of a look, then hit the track again for Eurong. All went well until 1km short of Eurong when the SERV4WD light popped up and I though "insert 4 lettered word here". Keep going, as in 4WD Low the front wheels keep tracking and driving and I got to Eurong, where I got on the phone to Jeep Assist. Dude on the phone (sorry, forgot his name but he did help with one issue) tried to get me to cycle out of 4WD Low but it was stuck in it. The on/off 3 times didn't work, wouldn't select neutral and all sorts so he had me try a "work around". Back up slowly, place in neutral and then dump into drive and ping, 4WD light goes out. Think everything was locked in as turning on the little bitumen at Eurong was hard and had the tyre scrapping sound.

So back to a normal "Auto" mode for the 70km drive upto the first camping spot at Waddy Point.

Trip no issue to Indian Head except for the (literally thousands of staring Nissian and Toyota owners staring at a Silver Grand Cherokee towing a camping trailer, with a Foxwing, body-boards and shovel hanging off the roof-racks. More on the shovel later). And the no issues also include the rough rock bypass track past the Poyungan Rocks without a scrap in OR2 setting. Still in Auto mode.

Indian Heads was the bit that freaked me out as everyone I spoke to at the camp site said you won't make it, it's not a real 4wd. Say what? How short sighted are people. It has 4wd low and reasonable ground clearance, is you Crusier better because it is dangerous to drive on the open road? Breath in and count to 10 Antony.........

It was soft and really deep sand so I dumped it back into Low, and got stuck on the 30 degree bit just by the rubber erosion tracks. Shit..... Then Steve (was taking him and his sister from England on the holiday as Steve's Delica needed work) mentioned that all seemed fine apart from the lack of wheel turning. Hmmmmm. Backed up a little, back into 4WD high and auto mode! OR2 and off I go. Him a Vicky had walked up halfway to get a vid if/when I went past, and past I did go. Didn't stop I case I could restart but the Jeep, with a trailer cruised through with nary a problem. Damn.

Then was Waddy Point and the hill into here was actually harder than Indian. Got up top with more Toyota and Nissian owners starring and laughing (I shall just call them TNO's from here). Ranger guy up there was shaking his head and when talking to him I found out he was shaking his head at the yobbos in the V8 Surfs and Wranglers, not me. He said the trip was soft and a bit hard at the moment to the camp but after that last hill I should make it. You know what, he was right.

Had a great camp at Waddy and much wine was consumed and Eye fillet steaks demolished.

After a bit of a drive around Orchid Beach and Orange creek area the next morning, we moved camp down to Dundubara. Goes without saying that the GC (now moving towards her name, she started unnamed for this trip) made it without a issue. And a funny thing happened on the way down. Stopped at Indian Head for some photos, and guess what? A Prado, towing a tinny was bogged in the loose sand at the bottom of the hill. Funny that, the Jeep had gone through that with only 1 (operator) issue.

Anyway, the next day was driving all over, trailerless. To Kingfisher bay and all over. About 200km of sand driving in Auto mode, just adjusted the height. In and out of Kingfisher without a issue. I am pretty sure now that "Sandy" would have done that with the trailer.

Next day was the drive to Hook Point, and apart from the distance and the deep, loose sand, no issues so I will not bore you with the details.

After a ferry for Rainbow beach we went to a track that leads to the Coloola Part of the Great Sandy National Park. The track was 35km long and rutted, soft, deep sand and done in (gulp) Sand mode. No issues apart from the last kilometer. Always has to be the last k right?

We ran across a fallen tree on the track, moved it out the way and got funneled down a wash that was narrow, steep, wet, steep, sandy, steep and now way to back up with a trailer. Did I mention steep? About a 100m lead up at 35 degrees, then a 10 foot drop-off pretty much vertical on the LHS, 50 degrees on the RHS. Apart from me panicking a little before doing it (the old "why didn't I wonder why no one else has been this way in a month?" and "I am so screwed when I get stuck") Sandy and me headed of. With some reasonable brake control if I say so myself) we just went down, down, slid and drove through that crap. In the end it was very anticlimactic. Really a bit of a let down asSandy (still in Sand mode) just went down, around, up and out.

Fully recommend camping on this beach as its just 2 hrs from Brisbane. Talk about a clear sky (and more beer, whiskey and steaks over a camp fire).

Then it was the drive back to Brisbane.

In the end, averaged 14.8 l/100 for the entire trip which had over 500km in the sand.

Will try to get the videos of those couple of anticlamatic times uploaded and the picture of the stuck Prado with the Jeep parked nearby.

All I want from Jeep is the option to turn things on/off manually without having to select this mode or that mode. A locking front hub, similar to the back and the option to lock the centre, front and rear with switches would be usefull as you are never really sure what the wheels and transmission is doing. Is more unsettling than dangerous, but as that leaves you with a sense of doubt to your Jeep capabilities.

And the shovel story, several retired types, touring with their Landies and such, mentioned "you will need a shovel". So I got one.

Likely it worked similar to a umbrella theory, if you have 1 you don't need it. If you don't have 1 then you will need it.
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  #92  
Old 08-25-2012, 07:30 PM
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Great report Carver, thnx. What did you do with tyre pressures?
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:06 PM
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Really interesting reading, Carver. We're you saying that having the GC in 4WD LO was actually a contributor to the problem? Like you I have had an impression from this thread that LO tended to help "prevent" so this is interesting.
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:30 PM
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Re: STUCK IN SAND with 4WD malfunction

Carver,
Great story! Did you have the air-dam off and what tyre pressure did you use? Also, why did you use auto and not sand mode?
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  #95  
Old 08-25-2012, 10:03 PM
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Re: STUCK IN SAND with 4WD malfunction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carver View Post
All went well until 1km short of Eurong when the SERV4WD light popped up and I though "insert 4 lettered word here". Keep going, as in 4WD Low the front wheels keep tracking and driving and I got to Eurong, where I got on the phone to Jeep Assist. Dude on the phone (sorry, forgot his name but he did help with one issue) tried to get me to cycle out of 4WD Low but it was stuck in it. The on/off 3 times didn't work, wouldn't select neutral and all sorts so he had me try a "work around". Back up slowly, place in neutral and then dump into drive and ping, 4WD light goes out. Think everything was locked in as turning on the little bitumen at Eurong was hard and had the tyre scrapping sound.
Hi Carver,

So, does that mean that everything seemed to be working OK in 4WD Lo even while the warning light was on? If so then atleast that way there is more chance of being able to apply the "work around" - (and less chance of getting bogged)!

Can I ask how were the conditions just before the light came on - was there anything different about the driving just before than on the rest of your trip?

Thanks, great story by the way!
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Old 08-25-2012, 10:54 PM
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Been pondering this a bit more this morning and I think there are a couple of learnings here.
My first 4WD had 2 gear sticks, 1x4 standard gears and 1 x 4WD Hi/Lo.
Did I get bogged, stuck, do panel damage? Absolutely yes, but the more I drove it, the more I understood it's abilities and limitations.
Over time, by trial and error (oh and a 4WD'r training school), I became more proficient, more confident and ultimately less bogged, less stuck and less panel damage. Over time, just like man and horse, I became one with my 4WD beast.
Now not disputing there's probably a fundamental issue with our Jeep 4WD system, could it be that the technology we're now driving has made us complacent? Have we lost the ability to think and drive with confidence?

Just because we turn a switch to sand/mud or rock, doesn't eliminate good old common sense and intuition.
Just like a new horse, we need to again learn each other's abilities and limitations. Carver's been in the field and by trial and error and some good ol' common sense, learned.
Just a thought.

Btw, young guys have a weekend sport on Fraser Island watching and placing bets on fancy new 4WD's failing. Jeeps haven't hit the top spot as yet, but their favorite is watching BMW's sink:-)
Part of their modus operandum is to play mind games with new 4WD'rs making them panic.
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