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  #97  
Old 08-25-2012, 11:24 PM
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Interesting about the reverse theory as this is what I also used to do In my previous fourbies, all having been manuals, I was scared I would damage the gearbox doing this in the auto. Sounds like an awsome trip. I have to say when the 4wd actually works, these jgcs are unstoppable on the sand. I have towed a 2200kg vehicle off the sand without any issues
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  #98  
Old 08-25-2012, 11:45 PM
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Re: STUCK IN SAND with 4WD malfunction

Well some answers and more comments then,

Scraps-I dumped the pressures done to about 1.1 to 1.2 bar, which is what? 16-17 psi? Seemed the right thing to do, as I had heard the lower the better in sand.

Ross51-it may have been a issue with going 30 high revving, spinny minutes in low. As mentioned it was a pig to turn on the little bitumen at Eurong, and you could hear the tyres scrubbing on the road. Maybe it should not be used for that time?

BobT-Tyre pressure above, I didn't take off the air dam as the Overland with the ACC and FCW radar at the front seemed to be nicely rounded, and solid enough for a little sand. I was more scrapping the diff skid plates rather than the front. Also, as a side note, call me blind, old, dumb or just hard-core but I could easily find the supposed 8 bolts to remove it. It does look different to the Laredos and Limiteds up front. As for the Auto mode and not Sand, well with 1 sweet sounding and looking English lass on her holiday, and her easy going Australian resident brother in Sandy, I did not want to queer the deal on Fraser with all the TNO's around. If something did get dodgy in Sand mode (which seems to happen in Sand mode on sand, go figure) I just wanted to to keep working and show her the Island. And it did really handle all conditions without issue. I did use Sand mode for the 150 odd km's on Coloola though, and even with the big drop off and really bad sand near the Rainbow beach ferry point, never gave any trouble at all.

Brett-the front wheels were certainly still spinning even with the SERV4WD light on. Who knows, maybe if I had chosen Sand or just left it in Auto, it would have gone through the whole thing without almost scaring me to death. I mean, recovery fees from Fraser? Panic mode extreme from where I was sitting as well as stuffing up her holiday, and she is a really good shot in the clay skeet arena. As for the sand and road conditions, it was the same on the whole inland track. Deep and loose sand, tyre ruts about 6-12 inches, bumpy and tight with little steep hilly bits and crowns. When the ligh came on, it was actually exactly the same as other bit, no harder causing more pressure or torque, and no easier causing things to unwind. Stranger than fact, but maybe it was just the time, distance, number of engine revs since departing, or my tongue was on the wrong side of my mouth?

Gibbs-I too was worried although was hoping that the 7km/hr bump wouldn't do anything. Not something that can be done anywhere unfortunately as you do need the beast to be rolling slightly backwards. Guess its similar to rocking the rear drive cars forwards and backwards in mud, and just suppressing mechanical sympathies.

A final driving note was that almost every other 4wd on the Island was going faster than me. Maybe they enjoyed making their suspension bottom out, throwing all in their vehicles about. Me, well I was generally about 60-70 km/hr, as any faster and the suspension would automatically reduce in height to normal from OR1.

Maybe it's just that we cultured, intelligent, handsome Grand Cherokee owners don't want to see the world rush bye but actually want to see what we are passing. Part of it was certainly that I didn't want to bend Sandy.

A final note, that is going to upset all the theories about what goes wrong in the system is that I don't think it is sand in the sensors. At least not directly. Maybe it's just that the ABS and Traction control systems get too far out of kilter with each other? ABS says turning fine by traction control senses different front/rear and side to side speeds which indicate a spin?

As another side note, that Ranger at Indian Head mention a few newer 4wd's also comming to grief. Like new Pathfinders, Prado's, klugers, Evoque and such.

The fix? Well I believe that Jeep can get the rear diff, like my lovely Electronic locking one, and engineer a front version. I for one would pay the extra $1,000 it would cost to get Jeep to install the $500 item. And then 3 electronic locker buttons, for Front, Centre and Rear. They could even include the electronics that disengages them if your driving style is over stressing them. But it then gives you the option of leaving it in Auto, 4wd high and locking all when going through a bit mud patch, or 4wd low with everything locked for those narly rock sections.

Who do I contact in Jeep for that? And will that give me a free one for testing purposes?

Why doesn't my Overland, with Off-road pack not have trial rated badges? Enough reason to return as unfit compared to my order?
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  #99  
Old 08-26-2012, 12:34 AM
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Great info, I think you're right though. Everyone needs to have their tongue positioned on the right side. I daresay the computer senses where it is and compensates accordingly.
Alternatively, what music were you playing?
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  #100  
Old 08-26-2012, 12:42 AM
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Re: STUCK IN SAND with 4WD malfunction

You're right about the learning. All 4wd's operate differently, the old Landcrusier back in the 90's was much different. As we all get used to the way the new GC works with the electronics, we may stop second guessing some thing, and avoid others.

As for the music I think it was some basic 70's rock, you know, where the happy go lucky words actually mean something.
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  #101  
Old 08-26-2012, 02:07 AM
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Re: STUCK IN SAND with 4WD malfunction

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Originally Posted by scarps View Post
Been pondering this a bit more this morning and I think there are a couple of learnings here.
My first 4WD had 2 gear sticks, 1x4 standard gears and 1 x 4WD Hi/Lo.
Did I get bogged, stuck, do panel damage? Absolutely yes, but the more I drove it, the more I understood it's abilities and limitations.
Over time, by trial and error (oh and a 4WD'r training school), I became more proficient, more confident and ultimately less bogged, less stuck and less panel damage. Over time, just like man and horse, I became one with my 4WD beast.
Now not disputing there's probably a fundamental issue with our Jeep 4WD system, could it be that the technology we're now driving has made us complacent? Have we lost the ability to think and drive with confidence?

Just because we turn a switch to sand/mud or rock, doesn't eliminate good old common sense and intuition.
Just like a new horse, we need to again learn each other's abilities and limitations. Carver's been in the field and by trial and error and some good ol' common sense, learned.
Just a thought.

Btw, young guys have a weekend sport on Fraser Island watching and placing bets on fancy new 4WD's failing. Jeeps haven't hit the top spot as yet, but their favorite is watching BMW's sink:-)
Part of their modus operandum is to play mind games with new 4WD'rs making them panic.
Absolutely agree! Actually I suggested to a 4x4 trainer that he think about a special course for owners of smart fourbies. It's really a whole new world. The problem is, he would probably need a degree.
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  #102  
Old 08-26-2012, 07:38 PM
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Re: STUCK IN SAND with 4WD malfunction

Great read Carver. Thanks for making me laugh! Your trip makes me want to book a vacation to Australia!

In the case of your 4WD light being on, sounds like your issue was that it was stuck IN 4WD whereas others and myself were stuck OUT of 4WD. Did I understand that correctly? Either way I was in SAND HI mode so our situations were different from the start. Still interesting though.
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  #103  
Old 08-26-2012, 09:35 PM
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Re: STUCK IN SAND with 4WD malfunction

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Originally Posted by whitneyumr View Post
Great read Carver. Thanks for making me laugh! Your trip makes me want to book a vacation to Australia!

In the case of your 4WD light being on, sounds like your issue was that it was stuck IN 4WD whereas others and myself were stuck OUT of 4WD. Did I understand that correctly? Either way I was in SAND HI mode so our situations were different from the start. Still interesting though.
Well sort of, as I had put it in 4WD Low, and the central lock was engaged, I did have 4wd when the light came on as it was,well, locked. So I am guessing that when people get the service light warning in Sand or Auto mode, that the central diff just stops transferring anything to the front.

I am pleased you saw some of the funny bits in there, I shall try to do better when I do the next write up. After re-reading I also noticed many spelling and grammatical error's that I shall blame on using the iPad in the sun, on my back deck, while drinking a wine and being attacked by a cat that had not seen me in a week.
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  #104  
Old 08-27-2012, 09:36 PM
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Re: STUCK IN SAND with 4WD malfunction

Very interesting read and your error was like mine, occurred in 4Lo, but, I Do not think I lost drive to the front wheels. Again, I was on different terrain, rocky steep mountain pass.

I've been curious if running in 4Lo might prevent the bad error signal from shutting down the 4wd system and subsequently getting stuck in sand. Did any one who was trapped by this issue happen to be running in 4Lo?

Also, I wonder if that error really had anything to do with the difficult shift out of 4Lo? I've had that happen before, the reluctant disengaging of the locked center differential and it always happens if I am either stopped or not rolling in neutral just right. Gotta be doing 1-3 mph for best results on my vehicle.

Anyway, fantastic trip report. Pictures would be nice to see!
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  #105  
Old 08-27-2012, 11:46 PM
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Re: STUCK IN SAND with 4WD malfunction

Great post!

It does sound like if in 4low the front wheels still turn regardless of the error. Both times I have been stuck I have been in 4high. I might give 4low a try.
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  #106  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:36 AM
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Re: STUCK IN SAND with 4WD malfunction

4LO is a mechanical lock in the transfer case. So if it fails in 4LO, it would make sense that you will still have drive to the front.

Otherwise on failure it would need to unlock the transfer case and in doing so change back to high range (auto), which would need the transmission to be in neutral.

Nice find, Carver!
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  #107  
Old 08-28-2012, 01:18 AM
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Re: STUCK IN SAND with 4WD malfunction

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4LO is a mechanical lock in the transfer case. So if it fails in 4LO, it would make sense that you will still have drive to the front.
I guess the logical conclusion is: if you do get the error when in 4Hi, is a workaround to stick it into 4Lo to make sure you have both axles getting drive (at least then there is a good chance of driving your vehicle out rather than being pulled out)? Assuming it will go into 4Lo when the error is illuminated - not sure if anyone who has had the error has tried it?
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  #108  
Old 08-28-2012, 01:33 AM
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Re: STUCK IN SAND with 4WD malfunction

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Originally Posted by Brett View Post
I guess the logical conclusion is: if you do get the error when in 4Hi, is a workaround to stick it into 4Lo to make sure you have both axles getting drive (at least then there is a good chance of driving your vehicle out rather than being pulled out)? Assuming it will go into 4Lo when the error is illuminated - not sure if anyone who has had the error has tried it?
I think once the error has occured it may be too late ... but doesnt hurt to try.
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