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Transmission Shudder

157K views 159 replies 76 participants last post by  Steadylooking 
#1 ·
Hey guys. I posted this on another forum, so if you've replied there, Thanks! If not, give it a shot.

I'm sure some of you have seen my various posts related to the shudder in my Jeep's drivetrain. Two dealers seem stumped, and the "rep" suggested that a lot of people have been complaining and nobody has a fix or knows what the issue is. In an attempt to not get swept under the rug and shafted, I'm taking it to a 3rd dealer tomorrow. Here's the skinny...

2011 5.7L Jeep (June 2010 Build Date) symptoms:
1) Between 45 - 70 Mph, the jeep will shudder/miss/wobble (something?) when maintaining a speed, especially up embankments. My word would be shudder.
2) The RPMs do not change a noticeable amount per the tach.
3) Recently, it will also do the shudder when slightly accelerating (not requiring downshift) for 2-3 mph.
4) It appears to only do this in OD. If cruising, the shudder stops when it gears down. When using the manual shifter to see the gear, it's in 5th - so I assume it's shifting out of OD. The RPMs appear to always be under 2k when it happens.
5) ALL PCM, software, hardware, TSB updates have been applied, including the HEMI shudder issue.
6) When accelerating from a stop or just giving it hell, there is no weakness or shudder.

Dealership "Fixes" already performed:
1) TSBs
2) Torque Converter replace (dealership#1)
3) Additive (dealership #2)
4) MDS harness replace - swinging in the dark, I believe.
5) Only running 89+ octane fuel - no impact at all.
6) New driveshaft

All plugs and general items have been addressed and cleared. I have an appointment on the 10th at Dealership # 3 with the transmission tech as I think it is related to the OD gear.

Any suggestions, fellas? Any word of other issues with the 5spd? I think the rep was just blowing smoke as I don't recall significant issues with the transmissions on here or in the prior model years, especially since it was not the case earlier. Just trying to go in with some "hopes" for the third dealership.
 
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#2 ·
Good luck. I've had to hire a lemon law layer as I've given jeep four tries at fixing my jeeps shudder. I've had the torque converter replaced twice (the second time the TC was in pieces spread throughout the tranny) I've had the software applied twice as well. My vehicle is so uncomfortable to ride in as the shuddering is constant. This all started with less than 1000 miles on the odometer and my mpg has dropped significantly as the shudder got worse. I'm done with this vehicle and the brand. I've also had suspension issues on top of this drivetrain issue.
 
#160 ·
. I have a vibrating in my 05 Jeep Grand Cherokee I Can make it vibrate in neutral or park must be the torque converter on mine I replaced the driveshaft bushings in the front end I got the same vibration problem that everybody’s complaining about so I guess it’s torque converter time
 
#4 · (Edited)
I wish you all the luck!!! Mine (2011 with 5.7) started at about 3000KM. Was smooth when new and slowly started feeling what felt like a mild miss under light acceleration, the worst being when going up slight grades. Got worse up to about 30000KM and seemed to level off to where it is now.
I have fought, taken vehicle back to dealers probably 10 -15 times over a one year period, had updates and other BS things checked, been in contact with Chrysler Customer service and was told "this is an inherant controlled misfire and vehicle operating normally"!!!! I have basically given up at this point, and will drive this thing untill warranty nearly up and then take a bath on getting rid of it and buy an MDX, Bmer or something OTHER than a Chrysler product.
I am not one to give up on stuff like this but I do understand the dealer can do no more than Chrysler with authorize but it pisses me off severely that they deny the issue for so long, then finally admit some thing not quite right, make me wait for "a fix", apply TSB's that I am sure Chy engineering knows full well will not help and finally they will blow you off and tell you its normal!! This is the WORST customer service department I have ever dealt with. Many just live with it and I do not understand this??? This is not a cheap vehicle, did not do this when test driving, when new nor was I told this was this was to be expected. I have owned MANY new vehicles and on 90% of them, I never or seldom see a dealership after purchasing.
Worst part of whole thing is I bought this because it is exactly what I wanted, liked the power, comfort, toys, looks, towing ability and the way it drives but for me this just P's me off every time I drive it. I believe most if not all will do this to some extent however people like myself that live out of town and do 90 % highway driving, will notice it more as around town or in the city it is not noticeable. Even when driving on larger highways and going faster (above 65 0r 70MPH) it is not as bad. Worst is when forced to drive at or near speed limits (50 - 60MPH).
 
#7 ·
I agree. Doesn't seem like enough pressure from consumers at present time to get this fixed.

I am not convinced this is caused by the transmission. Last conversation with cust service indicated caused by "controlled misfire". I have had spark plugs out of mine and the variance in the way they are burning cylinder to cylinder really makes me believe most of the issue is with engine not transmission.
 
#8 ·
Do your RPMs vary when the shudder happens? Mine do not appear to, or at least not enough to notice it on the tach. My spark plugs were checked, and he said that everything appeared perfectly normal with those.

Anyone else have any suggestions as to what it may be? Dealership appointment - the final one! is tomorrow.
 
#10 ·
I had a "tech" come down and look at mine. He claims it was fine and no shudder happened. I laughed and told them I'm sure it didn't and I knew you'd say that. I went on a test drive and it did it the whole time with him in the passenger seat and he would just nope didn't feel that nope feels normal. I'm so pissed at these clowns. It is so bad now and I was almost stranded yesterday as it started shuddering really bad and wouldn't up shift. My GC is so uncomfortable to drive on any trip longer than an hour due to this shudder/surge. It almost feels like my rear end is going to fall out. I'm done with being civil. I just wish Chyrsler would do the right thing and be decent human beings and take care of this apparent poor design/defect.
 
#12 ·
They are so full of shit. I really think Chyrlser is playing damage control at this point. I talked with a tech who was completely honest with me when I explained my problem and all the repairs Chyrsler has attempted on my vehicle and he told me there is no fix. He said they're getting a lot of V8's in with this problem but all Chyrsler will let them do is apply a TSB update and or change the torque converter.
 
#13 ·
I have a chrysler district rep and zoom (??) rep coming to the dealership tomorrow. Props to Friendship Chrysler Jeep Dodge in Bristol, TN for at least calling them in on the first time.

We'll see.
 
#16 ·
Update


My JGC has been at the dealer now for 8 days and they are waiting for Chrysler to give the some data, but what they had found so far is he one of the tail shaft (transfer box) was faulty and replaced, but they are also saying the the percentage of torque to the drive is incorrect and is waiting for the data.
 
#17 ·
On another Jeep forum page a person said that Jeep actually fixed it. He posted this.....

I have a 2011 5.7 and mine has had the exact same issues as listed. My dealer received a star case and it was applied two days ago. What they did was add an isolater in the front differential, it was in the shop for a day and a half (they said it was a major job). Low and behold they actually fixed it!!!

Now, how do we get the same treatment????;)
 
#21 · (Edited)
Is anyone a member on that forum where they can PM the OP of post #37 and try to get more information. Possibly a star case # to point dealers to it, if they can see it in the system it might help if this fix pertains to situations people are having. As far as I know isolators are only bushings, and you can't really "add" one, only replace them which hold the front diff.
 
#22 ·
Is anyone a member on that forum where they can PM the OP of post #37 and try to get more information. Possibly a star case # to point dealers to it, if they can see it in the system it might help if this fix pertains to situations people are having. As far as I know isolators are only bushings, and you can't really "add" one, only replace them which hold the front diff.
Done. I will respond as soon as I hear back from that member on the shudder "fix".:thumbsup:
 
#23 ·
Please let me know also... Jeep is going in this Friday for service - I am trying to gather as much info as possible to bring to them when I sit down with the techs. I have drafted a letter to the Service Manager based on several postings here on JeepGarage concerning this issue that many of us are having with the 2011-2012 WK2 Overland Hemi QT2 builds. I hope it saves them some time in diagnosing this issue in my case. Here is the body of the draft letter so far: (No grammar Nazi's yet please...)

Noticeable Engine Shudder Problem

I purchased my 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Summit with the 5.7L Hemi engine, and Quadra Trac 2 drive from your dealership on January 15, 2012. The build date on the vehicle is 11/2011. The VIN # is XXX.

The Jeep is in for service today because of the major problems I am currently experiencing with “transmission shudder” and engine performance that is described further below.

Transmission Shudder

Between 45 - 70 Mph, the Jeep physically stammers/misses/wobbles when maintaining a speed, while under slight acceleration but especially when incurring a slight incline. My word for the problem would be “shudder.” I have about 3700 miles on it now and it seems worse at times on the same roads and under similar weather conditions I have been driving for over month. This problem has simply reached an unacceptable level for me. The issue concerns us greatly as we have used the truck mainly for long commuting trips and the Jeep is quickly becoming probably the worst performing vehicle have ever driven. Not exactly what we had expected in a $40K+ vehicle.

Since new, while accelerating, the truck stutters as if the engine was "missing a beat"/ or had a cylinder misfire. This problem happens when accelerating at about 20% throttle, and teh engine tries to shift down a gear. It runs so poorly as if it has a bad spark plug and clogged injectors all while on an unbalanced wheel or tire. Even on the on the newly paved portions of the freeway it feels like we are “driving over a washboard.“ I have tried both 87 and 89 octane gas in the vehicle and it the problem remained a constant issue.

We have observed the following problems:


  • The Jeep will shudder when slightly accelerating (not requiring downshift) for 2-3 mph on the highway in overdrive. When driving around the beltway, it happens at 60 mph consistently after I let off the gas and then give it just enough gas to maintain speed. When I push a little more on the gas and the “choking” sensation goes away, though the shudder is still there. The sensation happens on both hills and flat terrain.
  • The problem persists at all speeds when accelerating from 45 mph to 90mph (did not try any faster). The RPMs appear to always be under 2K when it happens. I have tried different transfer case modes (auto vs. sport), with the tow/haul mode engaged and anti-skid mode on and off.
  • Additionally, when accelerating from a stop, while there is no shudder, there is a noticeable “dead spot,” or drop in acceleration when starting to accelerate from a stop in 1st gear into 2nd. The transmission seems to buck, like it was confused if it wanted to change gears or not. It definitely does not shift smoothly, and is getting rather annoying.

While researching these problems online, the “transmission shudder” problem seems to be prevalent in the 2011-2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee (WK2) Overland/Summit models with the 5.7L Hemi engine. Many contributors have had their torque converters replaced, PCM flashes performed (fixes some issues), mounts replaced, and tires rebalanced in an effort to have this issue resolved. Several people have reported that a Chrysler Star Case has been opened for their individual problems, though I have found no official TSB that has been released to cover this exact problem in the 2012 models yet. Many are getting frustrated with their new vehicle’s performance as am I.

I found several postings from online Jeep forums that mirror the problems I am experiencing and that I have included below, and attached to this letter that may be a starting place for the technicians:

PCM Software Flash

  • “My problem is a shudder at slow speed usually when the truck was slowly moving when you took your foot off the accelerator it felt like the truck jumped back up to another gear. It also happened when merging onto the highway and you took your foot of the accelerator once you got up to speed I could feel a shudder in the pedal/body. The fix also has cured the dead spot in the accelerator everyone talks about.” The recall code is Rapid response code 11-038 PCM TCM Improvement.

Bushings Replaced

  • “Fixed it!!! - “I have a 2011 5.7 and mine has had the exact same issues as listed. My dealer received a Star Case and it was applied two days ago. (2/20/12) What they did was “add an isolator in the front differential,” it was in the shop for a day and a half (they said it was a major job). Low and behold they actually fixed it!!!” (No details of fix included)
  • A drive shaft dampener installed in another Jeep which seemed to fix the problem.

In addition to the shudder problem mentioned previously above, I would like you to remedy the other following issues: ......

--------------

I'll let everyone know if we get it fixed, exact part numbers, patches etc..
 
#25 ·
Well I've gotten nowhere with Chrysler on this issue despite countless repair attempts (five), numerous letters written, several techs and service managers acknowledging there is a real problem so I decided to try the lemon law route and Chrysler said they won't take the car back and there is nothing more that can do for me! I've had this problem since under a 1000 miles and I've only owned it nine months. I'm just at my wits end. I can't believe a company would treat a customer like this let alone think this problem is ok with a 40k vehicle. They have surely lost my business for life.
 
#26 ·
Do they classify it as normal controlled misfire, which is why the the lemon law wont work? I assume you have no information in writing from techs/service managers which they admit there is something wrong? Otherwise you'd probably have a case for it.

If you dont mind me asking, what did they fix/attempt to fix in the 5 times they have done so?
 
#27 ·
I have the 3.6L and have what I assume is the same problem. Only happens on moderate inclines and at approximately 50 MPH.

Anyone else, with the 6 cyl., have this problem???
 
#28 ·
As far as I know, its been a 5.7 issue.
 
#29 ·
sounds to me like its all in the programming to keep rpms low under load for better gas mileage. These big, heavy beasts are gonna lug under load at low rpms.
 
#33 ·
Just an update: the engineers are working on mine. They've had it for 2 weeks now. I'm still swingin' the minivan. I have a case # with Chrysler, and have requested a rental vehicle with 4wd as its winter time and my job regularly requires me to be able to climb a mountain and deliver parts.

They suggested my spark plugs needed changed. I told them to go ahead since i've been complaining about the issue long before the recommended mileage to change them. They opted out, apparently. haha... guess they figured that wasn't it.
 
#34 · (Edited)
Here's an update:

2/29/12 I called JEEP to get an update on my rental case and vehicle. There was a note saying that i had oversized tires and that it could cause this issue. I nicely stated that the tires had been added late January and the issue is well documented to May of 2011. I got the diagnosis of this issue being "normal operation". Rental denied, come pick up the vehicle. This information came from my case manager, and the need to pick up the vehicle from my service manager. I tried to remain calm and politely tell the case manager that I beg to differ. This is NOT normal operation. Everyone that rides in the jeep asks what is wrong with it. Ugh. Since that seems to go nowhere, I asked what was the next step. I told him that my only option appeared to be lemon law, and he offered to "transfer" the case up to that department. He told me that i would get a call back from that department by the end of business on 3/1/12.

The lemon law department called back around 4:30 (right after i picked up the jeep) and said that they were the preliminary review/research into lemon lawing the jeep. She stated that she felt like it could be a case and passed it up to corporate/regional business center. She said that I should know something within 2 weeks and to give my dealership (friendship) a call in about a week to get an update. She was calling them as she hung up with me to let them know the situation. SOooOOO, that's how it stands as of now.

My situation is as follows: If Jeep lemons it themselves, then great. If not, then I have to do the lawyer situation. I've already given the information to my lawyer, and we're just awaiting jeep's response.

For those of you that have had the issue: Which route did you take in lemon lawing yours? I've read a few ppl saying they did it, but I can't remember which forum.

EDIT: My service manager said that the district rep told him that this was not the only instance of this issue. He said that the issue is with the 5.7L and the 5 spd in the 2011s and that there were no reported issues with the 2012s and the 6 spd.
 
#35 ·
The older GC's have this issue, I was told by a lead tech it's the lockup torque converter. People complained of the clunk when it happened at 50 mph so they changed it to pulse in from 45-60. When you step on the gas you feel it the second you take your foot off gone. From my passengers seat it is barely noticeable but from the drivers seat it's a different story. He stated some more than others harmonics of each individual car play a big part.
 
#41 ·
Just a small update: I spoke with my service manager about a week ago. He said his district rep informed him that "hundreds" of 2011s with the 5.7L were having this issue now. He said that Chrysler is actively working on a fix and that it is software related.

No word on my buy back / lemon request yet.
 
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