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  #13  
Old 11-19-2012, 02:30 PM
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Re: V6 Cylinder Head Failure

"Head failure was a mfg./quality issue NOT a design issue." - might I ask what you base that on ? I have not seen any information released on the source of problem.
Also "It only affected early build engines" - thought it peaked so far with 2012 MY vehicles. Do you know something different ?

Lets just say I have first hand knowledge on a very very broad scale, and keep in mind an engine's build date is NOT the same as the car build date.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jp467 View Post
This is not correct. If anything it seems early builds did not have this problem as much. If you read these boards it seems its a lot more common on the 2012 models.
Actually it is correct. See above, it affected the original batch of heads used in making EARLY BUILD ENGINES, not vehicles. All AA p/n heads are suspect and get replaced with the AC version. I've even come across a few ABs(unfortuantely I can't elaborate, but I'd be many of you had the ABs) that had to be replaced. the reason everyone thinks it peaked in 2012 is b/c the majority of 2011s affected belonged to fleets, ie enterprise. I have yet to see one fail once replaced with the AC heads.

Edit: Apologies for the tone, after re-reading it came off a bit brash, which was not my intention. I tend to be blunt sometimes.
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  #14  
Old 11-19-2012, 03:08 PM
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Re: V6 Cylinder Head Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahkneefive View Post
"Head failure was a mfg./quality issue NOT a design issue." - might I ask what you base that on ? I have not seen any information released on the source of problem.
Also "It only affected early build engines" - thought it peaked so far with 2012 MY vehicles. Do you know something different ?

Lets just say I have first hand knowledge on a very very broad scale, and keep in mind an engine's build date is NOT the same as the car build date.



Actually it is correct. See above, it affected the original batch of heads used in making EARLY BUILD ENGINES, not vehicles. All AA p/n heads are suspect and get replaced with the AC version. I've even come across a few ABs(unfortuantely I can't elaborate, but I'd be many of you had the ABs) that had to be replaced. the reason everyone thinks it peaked in 2012 is b/c the majority of 2011s affected belonged to fleets, ie enterprise. I have yet to see one fail once replaced with the AC heads.

Edit: Apologies for the tone, after re-reading it came off a bit brash, which was not my intention. I tend to be blunt sometimes.

No I would still say thats not correct. They switched to the AC head in July of this year the AB head was only used for about a month. The Pentastar first came out in May 2010 in the 2011 Grand Cherokee so to me an early build would be something built in 2010 or maybe even 2011, but the AA head was used up until June 2012 of engine production. It seems most of the issues have been with 2012 models for some reason. There are 2011 and 2012 and 2013 fleet vehicles out there so that makes no difference. They also had almost as many retail sales in 2011 so that shouldn't make a difference either.
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  #15  
Old 11-19-2012, 06:38 PM
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Re: V6 Cylinder Head Failure

believe what you would like. The AA heads were the issue the AC corrected it. There were no design changes.
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  #16  
Old 11-19-2012, 10:40 PM
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Re: V6 Cylinder Head Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahkneefive View Post
believe what you would like. The AA heads were the issue the AC corrected it. There were no design changes.

Let me be clear here because you don't seem to understand. They started using the AC head in July 2012 this is ENGINE build date not vehicle build, so in July 2012 they started using the AC heads in engine production. That is why some early 2013's still had the AA heads. This was after a brief period of using the AB heads. An engine built in May or June of 2012 or anytime in 2012 for that matter is NOT an early build. An early build would be May of 2010. I also never said it was a design change they have not said what it was. All we know is the part number changed which is supposed to correct the problem. Maybe since you have all this first hand knowledge you could tell us what it was.
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  #17  
Old 11-20-2012, 03:20 PM
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Re: V6 Cylinder Head Failure

So anything prior to June 2012 is considered "early" and probably has the AA head ?

Part of my problem is the difficulty of seeing the head number on my Oct Build 2012 WK2 but suspect it s an AA.

What I do not understand is what kind of difference between the AA and AC heads would not be a "design change". Do you know what the difference is between an AA and an AC ?

Or does "design change" have a special meaning in CJF? I would consider a difference in machining or tolerance to a casting to be a "design change". Definition please.
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  #18  
Old 11-20-2012, 03:29 PM
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Re: V6 Cylinder Head Failure

I believe it was a DEFECT in the casting/machining on just a number of heads...not a design problem.
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  #19  
Old 11-20-2012, 04:42 PM
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Re: V6 Cylinder Head Failure

In which case CJF should know which engines are affected and QA should have picked it up.

"To really screw things up takes a computer."
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  #20  
Old 12-11-2012, 05:53 PM
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Re: V6 Cylinder Head Failure

Well our 2011 Grand Cherokee has 35,500 miles and the other day it started missing so badly that is would barely stay running. I started it the next day and it appeared to be missing on one cylinder then within a minute of me moving it so the tow truck could get it, it started missing on at least 2 cylinders. The dealer told my wife it was missing on all 6 cylinders? They ended up draining the gas and putting in new and said it was still missing on one cylinder and that it needed a new head. It was supposed to be done today, but the said both heads were bad. They said they have seen this on Grand Caravans, but this is the first GC. They told her it is being caused by carbon build up issues. While I seriously doubt either head was bad and this dealer is just throwing parts at it, there definitely is some sort of design or machining spec issue with these heads. If you search ( I Own a 2012 JK so I have been reading a lot on the wrangler forums of failures ) there are reported problems on every vehicle Chrysler sells with this engine. If the 2 new heads fix our GC (which again seems highly unlikely based on zero symptoms prior), I will seriously have lost any confidence I have in this engine and unfortunately for me both of my vehicles have the 3.6

UPDATE: Ok just got it back yesterday. They replaced both heads, one side is part # ending in 'AC' other is ending in 'AD' , the problem is gone. They repair order said "code P0304 cyl 4 misfire and P0300 multiple misfire, found that intake valves on both heads were sticking open."

It seems most people have a noisy head or on again off again check engine lights or misfiring. Ours just starting missing out of the blue so bad it would barely run....go figure
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  #21  
Old 12-26-2012, 04:05 PM
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Re: V6 Cylinder Head Failure

While my GC. Is currently in the shop to check for the ticking sound and reason for the CEL I found some information about it. Not sure if it has been posted already in one of the other thousand threads with the V6 head issue;


Case Number: S1209000022
Release Date: 10/16/2012
Symptom/Vehicle Issue: Identifying Service Replacement Cylinder Heads
Diagnosis:
3.6L cylinders have been improved for durability by upgrading the valve seat and valve guide material. In order to verify that the latest upgrade is incorporated in to the cylinder head received from service parts verify the part number and Julian build date of the cylinder head
Part Number- RL141353AC or higher - left side head
Part Number -RL141352AD or higher– right side head
And a Julian build date of 2062 (206th of 2012) or higher .The build date is stamped on the outboard side of head at the center just below the rocker cover sealing rail

The quote above is from a Wrangler forum; Penstar recall to replace cylindar head - Page 6 - JeepForum.com

Found a picture of the head also, not sure if that's already the 'new design';
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Old 12-26-2012, 05:50 PM
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Re: V6 Cylinder Head Failure

This is the first case I've heard of both heads needing to be replaced. Maybe as the cars get older...

BTW that picture is confusing. Where is the combustion chamber ?
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:52 PM
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Re: V6 Cylinder Head Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by padgett View Post
This is the first case I've heard of both heads needing to be replaced. Maybe as the cars get older...

BTW that picture is confusing. Where is the combustion chamber ?
I would think its a part of the head with the exhaust manifold, it was pointed and discussed in the other forum that the ultra short exhaust vs. the longer might cause issues. Interesting discussion but all speculations.

Only hard statement is the posted one above, but again it's a Wrangler Forum not sure if they have the same head?

The story made its way into the news in the past, but it is still kind a quiet; That's an old one but never heard any since? Chrysler to fix defect in 1,000 V-6 engines

There are the same assessments in the referenced forum you made, the issue is probably related to higher outdoor temps. Maybe more is coming up in summer again?
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  #24  
Old 12-27-2012, 12:14 AM
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Re: V6 Cylinder Head Failure

Oh it is to laugh. That article is from August, the last time we heard anything from CJF and further down it says " The problem has been discovered in about 7,500 Chrysler V-6s, and there could be more,"

Further I suspect that heat and vehicle load are probably contributors so heavier (both Wrangler and GC are over 4,000 lbs) vehicle probably are more likely to experience the problem.

Personally would not be surprised if we started seeing "diminished value" for '11 and '12 V6s in NADA and KBB and then there would be an uproar.

BTW think that is a driver's side head that has been sliced in half, and the combustion chamber is on the bottom of the one on the right. What I do not see is where are the intake valves. There does appear to be what may be a coolant water inlet/exit at the flywheel end and going though the center but I do not see an inlet/exit opening by the cam chains (#2). This is part of what has bothered me from day one, normally the front cyl (chain end) runs cooler tan the rear and the center (#4) is hottest. Oh well will know someday.

ps just looked at some assembly line photos and it looks like there is a water inlet high at the rear of the head and what may be an outlet in the block just behind where the chains would be. Dunno which is inlet and which is exit but suspect an engineer would tend to put the cooler water in at the hotter end which normally would be near #6.
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