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  #25  
Old 10-12-2015, 09:09 PM
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5.7L Hemi - where's the horsepower hiding?

Hey guys,
Well let me start by saying I have a 95' Orvis ZJ 5.2L. On the physical...it has an 3.5 procomp suspension lift, running on 32" 11.5 BF A/T's, 15"X10" American Racing wheels, Thule cross bar roof rack, air hood deflector, Manik bullbar, KC spot lights, piaa fog lights, Rockford power series amps, JL audio 12" subs and MB quart speakers in the doors. Now on the mods side....It has a Borla cat back, k&n intake, Jet stage 2 chip, 180 therm, high flow cat, it's got 237,000 miles and still moves well. Sound like an angry SOB. When I did those mods, I without a doubt felt a definite increase in getty-up. My mpg increased as well. I feel like I'm in the same boat as the gentlemen who first posted this thread, from ZJ to WK2. I purchased a 12' GC 5.7L, brand new 7 miles on it when I got it. I custom built it online, I did not buy it off the lot. My first new jeep for me, been driving them for over 20 years (first jeep 84' grand wagoneer 5.9L). The 12' is the Limited trim with a touch of summit and overland options. It has some Mopar off road options as well. It's got 64,500 miles on it (most of highway miles), and still under warranty up until 85,000. I did a Borla cat back system, LOVE LOVE the sound!! It's sound is low and throaty. It did increased my mpg right off the bat, in general I'm not an aggressive driver. Now I'm not saying I don't have some fun with those German sports cars every once in awhile 😬. Now I was in the same dilemma, still under warranty and I wanted more power! T.T.D. (Tim Taylor Disease) is what I call it. So I purchased a k&n intake system. And then it happened....I tripped over R.I.P.P. I never installed the intake, sitting in the den, still in the box (looking to sell it). I did my research, and decided to take the plunge. I called them, asked them a few questions. Some interesting points they said about the 5.7L engine. They said it can absolutely handle the power increase. They did say on the 12' GC the weak point of any major power increase would be the trans. They explained the safe zone for the original trans is around 425-450 real H.P. at the wheels. If I had the 8 speed he said the trans can do 500 HP all day long w/o any issue. Btw my setting would be pushing between 6-8 pounds of boost (also in the safe zone). So with that I dropped my jeep off in Staten Island (RIPP Head quarters) four weeks ago today. The S.C. is physically installed but apparently there is an issue with Diablo. The mapping on ECU for the 2011-2014 are giving them some issues. Their senior techs there explained that there is an issue with the cold starts and it remapping. Diablo is aware of this and working on it. So I am sitting on the edge of my seat to get my jeep back. RIPP said "hopefully" sometime this week. They say they are waiting for Diablo to get the programming right. We'll see. One last quick thing my girlfriend has a 14' GC V6 w/ the 8 speed. Now I will be honest, she is leasing it, so I do tear into it like its not mine (well I guess it's not). I'm going to be honest....her 14' has some major getty up. I dare to say....almost if not MORE than my 12' pre-SC (well I hope not after SC). I am very very impressed with that trans matched with that V6, it does push you back a bit....when punched nicely. You can't be gentle on the gas to make that V6 move, you do need to punch it.
ImageUploadedByJeepGarage1444702089.741824.jpg
Pic, pre-SC the day I dropped off at RIPP.
64,500 miles 2012 GC 5.8L V8




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  #26  
Old 10-12-2015, 09:33 PM
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Re: 5.7L Hemi - where's the horsepower hiding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by floon34 View Post

My 2011 was listed as $58,677 on the window sticker. Original owner probably paid $55k out the door, assuming they got a good deal.

I bought it 3 years old for $26,500 out the door.

So someone lost over 50% of the vehicles value in just 3 years.

I just looked up KBB and it's still values around $27k after a year of ownership.
.
No it wasn't. I had a fully loaded 2011 Overland Hemi and the sticker was no where near that. More like $45k.
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  #27  
Old 10-12-2015, 10:10 PM
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5.7L Hemi - where's the horsepower hiding?

Some pics of the ZJ and WK2 on my previous post.
ImageUploadedByJeepGarage1444705686.110141.jpg
95' ZJ
ImageUploadedByJeepGarage1444705800.919286.jpg
12' GC



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  #28  
Old 10-13-2015, 07:47 AM
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Re: 5.7L Hemi - where's the horsepower hiding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe315 View Post
The 8-speed transmission is amazing when paired to this V8.
This ^^^^^^^^^^

8 speeds over 6 is going to provide you with far more "seat of the pants" feeling of power, than any cheap, quickie aftermarket engine or exhaust modifications will. You have to remember Chrysler engineers designed this engine over a period of years, and millions of miles of testing, in every type of condition imaginable. If they could reliably provide, (notice I said reliably), an extra 15 or 20 horsepower here or there, with gimmick add on , washable air filters, smaller crankshaft pulleys, and assorted other bolt on crap, these quick buck aftermarket shops like Jeg's and Summit sell, they would.

Another thing you must consider is weight. This isn't a fast and flashy aerodynamic, 2 door sport coupe, like the Dodge Challenger. It's a 2-1/2 ton, high profile SUV. Many of which have a 4 wheel drive drivetrain, that soaks up power before it ever reaches the rear wheels. It's going to take a much larger horsepower gain before you actually start feeling it. In big, heavy vehicles, horsepower becomes a law of diminishing returns. Simply put, you need a lot more to feel any.

These engines have become so sophisticated by design, most of what these "speed shops" sell in relation to better performance, are all a waste of time and money. And many will decrease reliability, and or cause warranty issues should a problem occur. Especially if the dealer traces the problem to something you've added or done to the vehicle. In short, it's not worth screwing with, because the risk/cost vs. reward factor is just not there.

If increased performance is something you just can't live without, I would go with a newer model with the ZF 8-Speed. Those 2 extra gears will make a world of difference, and you'll have the reliability of a totally stock vehicle.
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  #29  
Old 10-13-2015, 12:38 PM
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Re: 5.7L Hemi - where's the horsepower hiding?

3.6 8-speed is no slouch. A great combo.
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  #30  
Old 10-13-2015, 02:09 PM
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Re: 5.7L Hemi - where's the horsepower hiding?

I had an 08' Wk with the 5.7L, now a 14' SRT...I have a buddy with a 14' Overland 2wd 5.7L and another with a 14' Limited 4x4 3.6L.

I drove both back-to-back and was VERY impressed with the 3.6L in comparison to the 5.7L. I took into account the 2x vs 4x but could not believe how effortless the v6 was. I did not floor them nor do 0-60 times in either; but I will say that the 3.6L is nothing to scoff at with the 8-speed (have not driven one with the 5/6 speed). The biggest difference I noticed was in the 5.7L from 40-80 mph when compared to the 3.6L; the hemi was not struggling to get going to 80 while the 3.6L seemed "stressed". But that is to be expected with over 2 liters more displacement (one would hope anyways).

My SRT is consistently putting down 0-60 times in the 4.3-4.6 second range (I chopped the mufflers and have an aFe Pro Stage 2 Dry-S). In my 08' 2wd 5.7L, I was able to put down 5.9-6.3 second 0-60 times (full cat-back Gibson, BWoody 4" intake w/ 9" Amsoil Dry and DiabloToona by Johan).

IMO, if you can get your 1000+ more-pounds WK2 (compared to my WK) to anywhere sub-6 second 0-60 without dropping $6k++ for forced induction, then you are doing just fine! Hope that helps give you a barometer and some thoughts...
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  #31  
Old 10-24-2015, 09:14 AM
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Re: 5.7L Hemi - where's the horsepower hiding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by overlanding View Post
Simply put, it's the transmission. It's a joke. Step up to the 2014 with an 8 speed. Night and day! The 2014 3.6 puts down about the same numbers as the 2011-13 5.7 lol that's how amazing the 8 speed tranny is.

There is not only tranny. there is poor gear ratio. Might be it was done to strongly differentiate SRT and 5.7 at the market. If you compare hp against weight at SRT and at 5.7 you will not find other reason for so huge difference in acceleration than gear ratios.


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  #32  
Old 10-24-2015, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexIVK View Post

There is not only tranny. there is poor gear ratio. Might be it was done to strongly differentiate SRT and 5.7 at the market. If you compare hp against weight at SRT and at 5.7 you will not find other reason for so huge difference in acceleration than gear ratios.

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Or done because the srt being a performance model, needs a more aggressive gear while the non srt's are ment more for economy
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Old 10-24-2015, 09:50 AM
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Re: 5.7L Hemi - where's the horsepower hiding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by overlanding View Post
Simply put, it's the transmission. It's a joke. Step up to the 2014 with an 8 speed. Night and day! The 2014 3.6 puts down about the same numbers as the 2011-13 5.7 lol that's how amazing the 8 speed tranny is.
I think this, (better transmissions), is where engineers and consumers are going to find better performance, as well as fuel economy in years to come. Not turbo's and other costly engine gimmicks. As you mentioned the difference between the 6-Speed, and the 8-Speed is night and day with all other things being equal.

20 years ago the concept of an 8-Speed automatic transmission in an affordable passenger vehicle would have been laughed at. Now it's common place. Imagine in the next 20 years what they'll have. I don't doubt that 2, or even 3 speed rear axles are on the way. Performance will be off the chart, all while delivering fuel economy that will be nothing short of unbelievable. 10 and even 15 speed transmissions are coming in the not too distant future. This technology will be accelerated if fuel prices again skyrocket, and or the Middle East explodes into war, which it very well may.
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  #34  
Old 10-24-2015, 10:31 AM
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Re: 5.7L Hemi - where's the horsepower hiding?

What I am really interested in is getting that extra 30+ HP that the Ram 5.7L Hemi has- its essentially the same engine. Someone from the forum I believe pointed out some of the differences but I cannot recall what they were specifically. To me, that would be a no-brainer fix to gain some HP given the same engine without a tune or exhaust etc. However it may not be as simple as that.
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Old 10-24-2015, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintGermain View Post
What I am really interested in is getting that extra 30+ HP that the Ram 5.7L Hemi has- its essentially the same engine. Someone from the forum I believe pointed out some of the differences but I cannot recall what they were specifically. To me, that would be a no-brainer fix to gain some HP given the same engine without a tune or exhaust etc. However it may not be as simple as that.
The rams hemi has a different intake manifold and exhaust manifolds that allow for a little hotter tune. That's where the power difference comes from
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Old 10-24-2015, 10:53 AM
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Re: 5.7L Hemi - where's the horsepower hiding?

My 2012 Ram 1500 Sport Hemi Crewcab drove way way different than my wife's 2012 GC Overland Hemi. I remember the Ram was far more responsive. It just felt way different in terms of performance.
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