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  #25  
Old 06-18-2012, 06:18 PM
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Re: Awful shift points. Will we ever be able to do anything about it?

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Originally Posted by ericwp View Post
My BMW 3335xi has this issue also.
I wind up using the paddle shifters more and more.
I think it's something with the six speed trannys. My Jeep and BMW shift the same way, punch it wait a half second them Bam!! as you say.
I noticed that once up and moving I put the Jeep shifter into manual mode and shift it to 5 and leave it there. Little smoother shifts and it seems a little more reponsive.
On the highway fif I'm going to for a long ride I move it to 6..never D..
Try it see if you like it.
I also think this shuts down the ECO mode orr MDS.
It's electronic throttles. Literally all newer vehicles have this, it's not just related to transmissions with a certain number of gears. I'm driving an Explorer for work right now with the same thing, had a Kia minivan that did this, several Audis and MBs, etc. It's just a thing they do to keep mouth breathers from running into the back of you.

It's just one of those things that people need to learn about, and hopefully stop driving so aggressive. If the half a second delay is the difference between you getting through traffic, that wasn't a safe place for you to get through anyways.

Have a little more faith in your wife to drive like a reasonable and sane person. I think you'll find she's going to be less likely to try some suicidal split second maneuver.
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  #26  
Old 06-18-2012, 09:10 PM
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Re: Awful shift points. Will we ever be able to do anything about it?

The whole problem is we are having to come up with novel ways to make the transmission do what it should be doing on its own. I have mentioned this to Chrysler twice and I have asked my dealer about updates and I am told I have the latest one available. If they fixed this problem on the 2011 models, one would assume the 2012 models should come with the fix as well, but after driving the vehicle for I while, I am beginning to wonder.
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  #27  
Old 06-18-2012, 10:37 PM
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Re: Awful shift points. Will we ever be able to do anything about it?

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Originally Posted by Frostbite View Post
The whole problem is we are having to come up with novel ways to make the transmission do what it should be doing on its own. I have mentioned this to Chrysler twice and I have asked my dealer about updates and I am told I have the latest one available. If they fixed this problem on the 2011 models, one would assume the 2012 models should come with the fix as well, but after driving the vehicle for I while, I am beginning to wonder.
Exactly. And regarding the tip-in, just because other vehicles have it (and after a quick Google for "throttle response" on InsideLine, it looks like a lot of newer cars have it to some degree, seemingly for fuel economy reasons), doesn't mean it should be that way or has to be that way. Things like ESC and traction control can be partially disabled, so it'd be nice if delayed tip-in could be disabled too.

IMO if you tell the car to do something, it should do it when you tell it to, not when it wants to. So just as if you press the brake pedal, the brakes should apply instantly, if you press the gas pedal, more gas should be applied instantly also.
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  #28  
Old 06-19-2012, 05:19 PM
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Re: Awful shift points. Will we ever be able to do anything about it?

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Originally Posted by JeepersCreepers View Post
IMO if you tell the car to do something, it should do it when you tell it to, not when it wants to. So just as if you press the brake pedal, the brakes should apply instantly, if you press the gas pedal, more gas should be applied instantly also.
That's great if you're actually in control of your vehicle. Unfortunately, the vast majority of drivers are not, they're more interested in browsing the internet on their smartphone, texting, talking on the phone, doing their hair or makeup, reading, eating, sexting, thinking about things, working on schoolwork, or any number of other things that aren't driving.

And since such a vast majority of people are unable to drive, we can't just take their licenses. So instead, you get stuff like that.
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  #29  
Old 06-19-2012, 07:13 PM
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Re: Awful shift points. Will we ever be able to do anything about it?

You nailed it with this statement Jeeperscreeper.

"IMO if you tell the car to do something, it should do it when you tell it to, not when it wants to. So just as if you press the brake pedal, the brakes should apply instantly, if you press the gas pedal, more gas should be applied instantly also".

Lag time can equal disaster in many cases. Built in preprogramed pauses are akin to giving your Jeep dementia.
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  #30  
Old 06-19-2012, 09:54 PM
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Re: Awful shift points. Will we ever be able to do anything about it?

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Originally Posted by Frostbite View Post
Lag time can equal disaster in many cases.
I don't necessarily agree with the need for the delay in throttle, but this is just absurd. Aggressive driving, not planning, and being in a rush is what equals disaster.

As I've said before, if the half a second delay causes what you were going to do to be unsafe, what you were doing was ALREADY unsafe, and the blame for any disaster rests SOLEY on drivers involved.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Drive reasonable, and you don't need to worry about half a second delays.
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  #31  
Old 06-19-2012, 10:37 PM
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Re: Awful shift points. Will we ever be able to do anything about it?

That goes without saying Fauee.

I'm not talking about aggressive driving at all. I'm talking about trying to merge into heavy traffic, changing lanes or trying to get across a busy street. I am teaching my son to drive as well and not having your foot feeling directly connected to the speed of the vehicle is a recipe for problems.
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  #32  
Old 06-19-2012, 10:46 PM
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Re: Awful shift points. Will we ever be able to do anything about it?

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Originally Posted by FAUEE View Post
That's great if you're actually in control of your vehicle. Unfortunately, the vast majority of drivers are not, they're more interested in browsing the internet on their smartphone, texting, talking on the phone, doing their hair or makeup, reading, eating, sexting, thinking about things, working on schoolwork, or any number of other things that aren't driving.

And since such a vast majority of people are unable to drive, we can't just take their licenses. So instead, you get stuff like that.
Fair point, though I do wonder if the delayed response is actually there for safety reasons or if it's simply there for fuel economy / other reasons. (BMWs, "the ultimate driving machines", have the delayed throttle response also.)

Regardless, why not have an option to disable it? Have it enabled by default for the masses, and those who don't like it, can disable it.
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  #33  
Old 06-19-2012, 11:08 PM
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Re: Awful shift points. Will we ever be able to do anything about it?

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Originally Posted by FAUEE View Post
As I've said before, if the half a second delay causes what you were going to do to be unsafe, what you were doing was ALREADY unsafe, and the blame for any disaster rests SOLEY on drivers involved.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Drive reasonable, and you don't need to worry about half a second delays.
Well then how about a .5 second delay for the brakes too? Or the steering wheel?

Point is, just because sometimes a responsive throttle might aid a reckless driver in doing something dangerous, does not mean that it can never aid a responsible driver in avoiding danger or an accident.

Granted, I've not driven a car with delayed throttle response, or the WK2 yet for that matter, so this may not actually apply, but it seems that it would: as one example, say you're going through an intersection (either going straight or making a turn), and 1/4 way through you see a car barreling towards you. Instinctively you floor it to get through the intersection faster and hopefully avoid being hit by the other car. Well, that .5 second delay in throttle response, however unlikely, could potentially be the difference between getting hit and not getting hit, couldn't it?

Another example: you're at a standstill and in your rear view mirror you see a car coming up at you way too fast, and your gut is they're going to crash into you. You press the gas pedal and steer to get out of the way but before the .5 seconds is up the car already crashed into you.

Hypotheticals, of course, but still possibilities.
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  #34  
Old 06-20-2012, 07:12 AM
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Re: Awful shift points. Will we ever be able to do anything about it?

I really dont think it has any thing to do with throttle lag, just poor programming and i most certainly dont push mine hard, my evic is 90% of the time 10 ltrs per 100k. Also why should one compensate for the poor programming by switching off this and locking it in that etc,etc, that is not what an automatic is all about, for me anyway. By the way diesel engines are doing everything possible to eliminate the half second turbo lag and succeding. My friend has the diesel model GC and it is a hell of a lot better than the v6, i suspect because it has so much torque available down low in the rev range to counteract the poor shift points.
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:47 AM
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Re: Awful shift points. Will we ever be able to do anything about it?

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Originally Posted by millzzy View Post
I really dont think it has any thing to do with throttle lag, just poor programming and i most certainly dont push mine hard, my evic is 90% of the time 10 ltrs per 100k. Also why should one compensate for the poor programming by switching off this and locking it in that etc,etc, that is not what an automatic is all about, for me anyway. By the way diesel engines are doing everything possible to eliminate the half second turbo lag and succeding. My friend has the diesel model GC and it is a hell of a lot better than the v6, i suspect because it has so much torque available down low in the rev range to counteract the poor shift points.
I can agree with poor programming, it is horrible in the new Jeeps.

I also don't understand how people justify the big brother tactics and actually approve of them.
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  #36  
Old 06-20-2012, 10:58 AM
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Re: Awful shift points. Will we ever be able to do anything about it?

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Originally Posted by FAUEE View Post
I don't necessarily agree with the need for the delay in throttle, but this is just absurd. Aggressive driving, not planning, and being in a rush is what equals disaster.

As I've said before, if the half a second delay causes what you were going to do to be unsafe, what you were doing was ALREADY unsafe, and the blame for any disaster rests SOLEY on drivers involved.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Drive reasonable, and you don't need to worry about half a second delays.

Come and live/drive here in the trisate NYC metro area..you'll see how the lag is quite annoying and could be dangerous.
I'm not an agressive driver and am never in a rush, do ask my wife she will vouch for that, but when you got to go, you got to go and the delay/lag can make it a bit hairy at times.

JeepersCreepers my BMW delay is a bit longer then the Jeeps..they state it is for fuel economy only. I have to say the Jeep is better at pulling into traffic then the BMW is in automatic mode.
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