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  #25  
Old 04-09-2012, 01:23 PM
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Re: E85 can I do anything to improve fuel mileage?

All I can say is the information from the E85 websites you posted does not match reality for Minnesota and Wisconsin. We used to see 40-60 cents per gallon E85 vs E10 differentials, until the 38 cents per gallon E85 subsidy (4.5 cents per gallon E10 subsidy) expired 1-1-12. Now, the best I have seen lately is 30 cents per gallon, with most in the 10-20 cents per gallon range. I believe the small differential I saw at the gas station this morning was due to a 10 cents per gallon drop in E10 after the weekend (was 3.899 on Sunday and dropped to 3.799 this morning so I filled up), and they had not reduced the E85 price yet.

While the state of Minnesota has historically led the nation in use of E85 and the number of pumps per capita, E85 usage is dropping as people realize the savings are not there when you take 15-20% less mpg into account. Because of this, the Minnesota State Legislature has proposed increasing the minimum required ethanol content of gasoline to E20, but is meeting strong opposition.

The cost savings at $3.799 per gallon would have to be 60 cents just to hit break-even. It would be interesting to see the same comparison of E85 vs regular (E10?) in California where you live.
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:21 PM
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Re: E85 can I do anything to improve fuel mileage?

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Originally Posted by Justal13 View Post
All I can say is the information from the E85 websites you posted does not match reality for Minnesota and Wisconsin. We used to see 40-60 cents per gallon E85 vs E10 differentials, until the 38 cents per gallon E85 subsidy (4.5 cents per gallon E10 subsidy) expired 1-1-12. Now, the best I have seen lately is 30 cents per gallon, with most in the 10-20 cents per gallon range. I believe the small differential I saw at the gas station this morning was due to a 10 cents per gallon drop in E10 after the weekend (was 3.899 on Sunday and dropped to 3.799 this morning so I filled up), and they had not reduced the E85 price yet.

While the state of Minnesota has historically led the nation in use of E85 and the number of pumps per capita, E85 usage is dropping as people realize the savings are not there when you take 15-20% less mpg into account. Because of this, the Minnesota State Legislature has proposed increasing the minimum required ethanol content of gasoline to E20, but is meeting strong opposition.

The cost savings at $3.799 per gallon would have to be 60 cents just to hit break-even. It would be interesting to see the same comparison of E85 vs regular (E10?) in California where you live.
Hmmm many of those prices in MN were recently posted? I usually get e85 for about 40 to 60 cents a gallon less than regular In SF bay area regular runs about $4.17 to $4.30 gallon and E85 is around $3.65 to $3.80 gallon.

US patriots support ethanol by purchasing 100% US sourced fuel. If you want to send your money to hostiles in middle east by way of big oil feel free!
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:07 AM
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Great. We'll have fuel but no food/

Tell Obama to support the keystone oil pipe from Canada if you want NA oil.



Gas mileage will fall 20-25% with e85 vs. Gasoline.


So if the price of the e85 is 20-25% less OR GREATER
than it makes financial sense.

Ill leave the politics of it all to the rest of you....
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:53 AM
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Re: E85 can I do anything to improve fuel mileage?

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Originally Posted by robpp View Post
Great. We'll have fuel but no food/


Gas mileage will fall 20-25% with e85 vs. Gasoline.


So if the price of the e85 is 20-25% less OR GREATER
than it makes financial sense.

..
Again all myths. There have been several studies that show Ethonol has very little impact on food prices, and as ethonol refining practices become better more and more plants dont use food stocks as a means of production. Many are just using husks now and selling kernels to livestock. However if food conservation is your biggest conern there is something even less efficient than ethonol driving up our food costs. If Amercans could get over their addiction to processed beef we would all be better off and have far more affordable food. Commercial Livestock is about most ineffcient food source around and talking about enviromental damage.

Again high oil prices drive signficantly more cost into food supply chain than the minimal amount of agriculture dedicated to ethonol. These comments of food shortages and food price hikes due to ethonol are sound bites at best.

We have ethonol capacity now to fuel impact prices. How long will Keystone pipeline take to build after all states and local muniplaities have lawsuits against federal government? While I appluad US based drilling and discovery efforts I dont see our production base growing signficantly. And why not invest in ethonol as an alternative? As chemists spend more time in this emerging alternate fuel industry I can assure you they will come up with better formulations, more efficeint production methods, etc. Us early patriotic adopters of ethonol are people who are providing revenues so industry can make progress. I dont buy that this is a dead industry. Its proving it now - not only is it standing on two legs without federal subsidies our stupid government is also now taxing it just like gas! And sales are still climbing! Tells me the smart people in the industry are coming up with leaner production methods and more people like me are standing tall and doing right thing.

I encourage all with E85 vehicles to fill up at least once in a while with e85 to help our brothers and sisters across the US who are helping us to break free from corrupt oil terrorists of the Middle East. Giveng the finger to corrupt middle eastern and Asia oil traders who drive up prices for their own greed.

Just read about happy guys in Oman making money selling oil futures. I can assure you they have less interest in the US being successful country than agribusiness and ethonol producers in the US do.

http://arabnews.com/economy/article604826.ece

I look at my near break even using Ethonol as investment in US infrastucture. Its something I can do as a cconsumer to make US a better place help put more US jobs here. Just like not buying cheap Chinese made products and only buying US made goods.


Yes Im being political but I'm putting my money where my mouth is and actually driving social change as opposed to waiting for "daddy"" governmt to do something. Every dollar I put into Ethonol is helping US economy, growing industry in places where jobs are needed and divorcing me from middle East oil cartels. I dont think anyone who buys imported foreign oil can claim this. In fact I'm suspect of anyone who buys imported oil or even goods made in China. Call me conservative but our country has been wrecked by people looking for best deal rather than shopping smart and making sure social good in our country comes from our purchases. Start paying attention to countries you send your money. I buy most of my clothes from companies who only make clothes here in the US, Im looking at travel trailer made by company who does all manufacturing here as well. My race cars get parts all made in good ole US of A. I think its time for us to start investing in US and to stop thinking politians will do something. You can wait for your government to put in Keystone pipeline or go to an industry that is providing US jobs right now and taking money out of the hands of corrupt middle Eastern and Asian traders. Its less a political statement for me and more of a philosphical decision I have made with all purchases I make as I have absolutely no faith in Republicans or Democrats to steer our country in right direction. Nope I'm taking control right now! Could you imagine what would happen to US economy if we all as consumers embraced this way of thinking? We would drive economic boom like we havent seen. Maybe even see housing inflation again! Dang our housing market certainly needs that!
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  #29  
Old 04-10-2012, 01:53 PM
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Re: E85 can I do anything to improve fuel mileage?

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Originally Posted by Grantsjc View Post
Hmmm many of those prices in MN were recently posted? I usually get e85 for about 40 to 60 cents a gallon less than regular In SF bay area regular runs about $4.17 to $4.30 gallon and E85 is around $3.65 to $3.80 gallon.

US patriots support ethanol by purchasing 100% US sourced fuel. If you want to send your money to hostiles in middle east by way of big oil feel free!
I totally disagree. Ethanol hurts the overall economy. If you want to be pro US, vote for using our own resourses such as off shore drilling, drilling on Federal lands, ANWR, Fracking, saving oil used for electrical grid by adding Nuke, coal, and natural gas plants, etc. We have more oil here than in the middle east but the current administration won't let us get at it. And more power is generated by oil than anything else. Instead, the current admin has shut all these down and told us to buy electric cars, solar panels that take 30 years to pay for themselves and are less efficient than Chinese ones, and algae and meanwhile has stated that it would like to get us to do this by raisling oil prices to the same 9-10$ a gallon prices as Europe. That's un American.
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Old 04-10-2012, 02:39 PM
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Re: E85 can I do anything to improve fuel mileage?

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Originally Posted by fundguy View Post
I totally disagree. Ethanol hurts the overall economy. If you want to be pro US, vote for using our own resourses such as off shore drilling, drilling on Federal lands, ANWR, Fracking, saving oil used for electrical grid by adding Nuke, coal, and natural gas plants, etc. We have more oil here than in the middle east but the current administration won't let us get at it. And more power is generated by oil than anything else. Instead, the current admin has shut all these down and told us to buy electric cars, solar panels that take 30 years to pay for themselves and are less efficient than Chinese ones, and algae and meanwhile has stated that it would like to get us to do this by raisling oil prices to the same 9-10$ a gallon prices as Europe. That's un American.
Let me know how that works for yah! Im voting right now with my pocket book. I have no time to waste on a broken political system in the US. Democrats and Republicans are all truly useless with energy policy. Niether has a clue. What a waste voting for drilling rights for this or that. We have viable alteratives right now. I dont need to vote for anything. We all forget our most powerful vote is where we spend out money and actions we each take as citizens in this great country. I'm tired of all the whiners who blame their problems on this candidate or that. Thats un American! What ever happened to personal accountibilty and that do it yourself ability our culture has fosted for hundreds of years. Ethonol is not unlike any other frontier. T

I have installed US made solar panels on my home and I am becoming energy independent at home. I have bought LED lighting manufacturered in US as well for my home. Next step is to have a US built electric commuter car I charge on my grid! Oil is dead industry! Why pay to support stupid fuel like petroleum?

Those of us in our culture who "do" take action. Those who go for a ride pin their hopes on intangible political figurehead who will never do anything for you.

Ethonol is having same criticism leveled at it as an industry as solar did a decade ago. Its not sustainable, its not affordable, etc. Hmm and I have a solar system powering my house for less than cost of traditional energy now. ...wonder how that happened? Not by me voting for somone. It happened because like minded Americans worked to create a good product and I took action to support that industry. Just like I am with Ethonol.

...SOrry you bought the Hemi. LOL!
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  #31  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:20 PM
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Re: E85 can I do anything to improve fuel mileage?

Station on the way to work this morning has E85 priced at $3.59/gal and 87 octane $3.70/gal. Hardly worth the decrease in MPG to save $0.11/gal. I guess if your paycheck depended on the sale of E85, you would be a bit more outspoken.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:53 PM
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I'm in Northern IL and I can second Justal13's low E10 to E85 price differentials. I don't care what the average country or regional price dufferemtials are posted on websites. What I actually see is a 5 to 10 cent difference between E85 and 87 octane E10 locally.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:22 PM
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Re: E85 can I do anything to improve fuel mileage?

I'll cut grantsjc some slack.

He is in California after all.

I used to live in southern Oregon just north of the California border, and trust me, I understand....
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:00 PM
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Re: E85 can I do anything to improve fuel mileage?

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Originally Posted by bmrisko View Post
Station on the way to work this morning has E85 priced at $3.59/gal and 87 octane $3.70/gal. Hardly worth the decrease in MPG to save $0.11/gal. I guess if your paycheck depended on the sale of E85, you would be a bit more outspoken.
The data from AL supports your position you don't have nearly price spread we have in more E85 developed States. I'm still seeing 50 to 60 cents a gallon difference. Suspect E85 industry is focusing on regions that have high gas prices due to lack of gas refining capability or higher refining costs. It's a break even deal for me. If I were to really shop regular gas I might get a little savings but the e85 station is right next to my job site. Easy to duck in and by e85.

I have requested a station in area where I live.

http://e85prices.com/
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:06 PM
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Re: E85 can I do anything to improve fuel mileage?

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Originally Posted by Justal13 View Post
I'll cut grantsjc some slack.

He is in California after all.

I used to live in southern Oregon just north of the California border, and trust me, I understand....
I lived in Or-e-gun and Wisconsin also so I will cut you some slack too! e
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Old 04-21-2012, 04:43 PM
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Re: E85 can I do anything to improve fuel mileage?

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I have installed US made solar panels on my home and I am becoming energy independent at home.
They don't pay for themselves before they break. You make power, but you actually pay more for it if you include the cost of the panel vs. the cost of the power, at least in most states. And foreign panels are typically better quality which is why solyndra went out of business. The Chinese panels were better.


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Originally Posted by Grantsjc View Post
Next step is to have a US built electric commuter car I charge on my grid! Oil is dead industry! Why pay to support stupid fuel like petroleum?
The savings you get from a chevy volt means you save money after 27 years of normal operation vs. gas. You need 8-12 hours to charge for 100 or so miles of use, no where to charge if you go more than 50 miles from home, and creates more polution than a hybrid, which creates more polution than a gas powered Escalade. If you include the polution created by manufacturing and disposing of the batteries, the total polution is higher from build to crush.

Finally, there is still hundreds of years of Oil available at current levels of use and increase of use, then synthetic oil etc will be also available soon. It is responsible for more of the worlds energy than anything else and will be when our great grandchildren are old. Alternative energy solutions Solar, wind, etc. are limited or so undeveloped at this point as to make them ridiculously unfeasable. Maybe in 40 or 50 years they will become economically viable, but until they are, they will be dominated by carbon based and nuclear based energy. And economics are the one and only driver of this stuff.

And I'm happy for you that you have some ugly panels covering your roof that your neighbors find an eyesore and that you paid huge sums of money for instead of voting to have more clean natural gas, nuclear, and clean coal power plants built to lower the cost of energy even more saving you and your community money so you could invest it in something more meaningful like a children's playground.

Want to do, don't do for yourself. Look past the initial micro picture to the macro picture then do something for everyone.
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