How much power you think the 3.6L pentatstar is capable of? - Page 2 - Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum

Go Back   Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum > Jeep Platform Discussion > Grand Cherokee - WK2 - > Engine Performance/Intakes/Exhausts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
  #13  
Old 03-04-2016, 08:15 PM
ajag's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Boston, Ma
Posts: 710
Thanks: 21
Thanked 144 Times in 108 Posts
Rep Power: 2053
ajag is on a distinguished road
Re: How much power you think the 3.6L pentatstar is capable of?

I don't know what to say about the loss of power through the drivetrain but I can tell you that the stock v6 supposedly puts out 290hp at the motor and the srt puts out 470hp at the motor


On the dyno with awd the v6 puts down between 180-190 hp to the wheels and the srt puts 360-370hp

So assuming that the drive train eats 100hp I just transferred that to the new Hp numbers I'm getting..but you guys are the experts so I'm open to hearing what you guys think the real world numbers are?

I'm getting 403awd hp on my latest dyno run ..

Ripp has several vids of what the stock v6 puts down
I have a dyno appointment next Saturday so I'll grab some video and print outs at that time so you guys can analyze drivetrain loss


Watch this to see stock numbers vs supercharged numbers


http://youtu.be/hp6x89GS7-w

Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #14  
Old 03-04-2016, 08:43 PM
Strongjeff's Avatar
Project 8 gauge / ROUSH Protoype Tech

My Jeep: 2008 3.7L WK
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Woodhaven, MI
Posts: 9,041
Thanks: 420
Thanked 667 Times in 598 Posts
Rep Power: 340261
Strongjeff has a reputation beyond reputeStrongjeff has a reputation beyond reputeStrongjeff has a reputation beyond reputeStrongjeff has a reputation beyond reputeStrongjeff has a reputation beyond reputeStrongjeff has a reputation beyond reputeStrongjeff has a reputation beyond reputeStrongjeff has a reputation beyond reputeStrongjeff has a reputation beyond reputeStrongjeff has a reputation beyond reputeStrongjeff has a reputation beyond repute
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajag View Post
I don't know what to say about the loss of power through the drivetrain but I can tell you that the stock v6 supposedly puts out 290hp at the motor and the srt puts out 470hp at the motor

On the dyno with awd the v6 puts down between 180-190 hp to the wheels and the srt puts 360-370hp

So assuming that the drive train eats 100hp I just transferred that to the new Hp numbers I'm getting..but you guys are the experts so I'm open to hearing what you guys think the real world numbers are?

I'm getting 403awd hp on my latest dyno run ..

Ripp has several vids of what the stock v6 puts down
I have a dyno appointment next Saturday so I'll grab some video and print outs at that time so you guys can analyze drivetrain loss
You gotta realize we are only referring to the transmission based on one of your previous posts. Obviously having AWD will magnify the losses. But you having quoted 27% on the transmission is what got this started.

I say the AWD drivetrain on the whole loses about 27% however the trans itself is only about 10-15%.

Not trying to bash you in anyway, as a V6 owner myself, I have a lot of respect for your build. It's good stuff and I wish I could get 400+ at the wheel on my 3.7

Edit: my bad, F1 mentioned 27% but I feel he didn't take into account of the AWD as a whole
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-04-2016, 09:19 PM
f1anatic's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,817
Thanks: 89
Thanked 237 Times in 172 Posts
Rep Power: 160266
f1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How much power you think the 3.6L pentatstar is capable of?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strongjeff View Post
You gotta realize we are only referring to the transmission based on one of your previous posts. Obviously having AWD will magnify the losses. But you having quoted 27% on the transmission is what got this started.

I say the AWD drivetrain on the whole loses about 27% however the trans itself is only about 10-15%.

Not trying to bash you in anyway, as a V6 owner myself, I have a lot of respect for your build. It's good stuff and I wish I could get 400+ at the wheel on my 3.7

Edit: my bad, F1 mentioned 27% but I feel he didn't take into account of the AWD as a whole
I did account for the AWD as a whole. Even then, 27% is a very high number. Subaru Legacy dynoed stock at about 190-200 whp with a reported 250 crank horsepower. STIs of the same era dynoed around 240-250 whp and they made reportedly 300 at the crank. Like I said earlier, it depends on the dyno, but that was a pretty standard number. That is a 20-25 % drivetrain loss on the face of it. But I recall some smart dude on NASIOC - from some tuning shop, providing a very good explanation and putting that number closer to 18%.

I am not willing - at the moment and without comparisons on the same dyno of both cars, stock, - to accept that the Jeep's modern drivetrain is less efficient than that of the Subaru. I mean really, AJAG's V6 Pentastar (290 crank, stock) dynoed the same as an EJ 255 Subaru engine (250 crank). Something is not quite right here. Not to mention that in 3 years of extended testing and tracking of the fuel economy, the almost 2000 lbs heavier and less aerodynamic Jeep is as fuel efficient as the Subaru. The Jeep's transmission here must be a great equalizer, and penalize the car less with drivetrain losses.

Anyways, DT loss can't even be calculated on a general basis as it'll change from dyno run to dyno run. Plus drivetrain losses are not linear, they are dynamic and change with speed, with the gear used, etc. That is why we always ran on dyno in 3rd gear - closest 1:1 ratio.

AJAG - I thought you were considering trading it in for an SRT ?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #16  
Old 03-04-2016, 10:13 PM
VMX12R's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2015 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Papillion, NE
Posts: 169
Thanks: 0
Thanked 31 Times in 23 Posts
Rep Power: 16866
VMX12R has a reputation beyond reputeVMX12R has a reputation beyond reputeVMX12R has a reputation beyond reputeVMX12R has a reputation beyond reputeVMX12R has a reputation beyond reputeVMX12R has a reputation beyond reputeVMX12R has a reputation beyond reputeVMX12R has a reputation beyond reputeVMX12R has a reputation beyond reputeVMX12R has a reputation beyond reputeVMX12R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How much power you think the 3.6L pentatstar is capable of?

I wouldn't try to compare AWD dynos between Subies and our GCs. Looking at my own 2015 with the 20 inch wheels and 265mm tires, which would be significantly heavier than an older WRX/STI running skinnier tires on smaller wheels. Plus I would imagine that those Subies are probably running manual transmissions as well, and who knows if their differentials and transfer cases are more efficient than ours. I've seen multiple dynos on these 3.6Ls and they all seem to be in that 180-190awhp range. If this engine is truly 290hp at the crank than total drivetrain losses appear to be significantly more than 27%.


That being said, more than doubling the factory HP on an AWD vehicle certainly is stressing the engine and drivetrain beyond its engineered and reliable capacity. I would suspect at some point there will be an expensive 'bang' at the engine or further down the drivetrain.
__________________
2015 GC Altitude
2010 Mazda 6 (wifes)
2008 Suzuki B-King (Gor-Gor the Decepticon)
2003 Yamaha V-Max (The Heretic)
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-05-2016, 08:37 AM
ajag's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Boston, Ma
Posts: 710
Thanks: 21
Thanked 144 Times in 108 Posts
Rep Power: 2053
ajag is on a distinguished road
Re: How much power you think the 3.6L pentatstar is capable of?

I was thinking of trading this v6 in for an srt but I've got so much invested at this point that I decided to see how far I can take it ...I'm trying to hold out for the hellcat jeep

Just need this one to last another year or so


When I bought this jeep I had no intentions of making it fast..in retrospect I really should have bought the v8 though
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-05-2016, 02:40 PM
05wkguy's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Regina,Sask,Canada
Posts: 816
Thanks: 1
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 10320
05wkguy has a reputation beyond repute05wkguy has a reputation beyond repute05wkguy has a reputation beyond repute05wkguy has a reputation beyond repute05wkguy has a reputation beyond repute05wkguy has a reputation beyond repute05wkguy has a reputation beyond repute05wkguy has a reputation beyond repute05wkguy has a reputation beyond repute05wkguy has a reputation beyond repute05wkguy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How much power you think the 3.6L pentatstar is capable of?

If you follow the ZF part numbering strategy of (forward gears) (torque capacity) (internal codes) It would seem the 8 speed is good to 450 ft/lbs of input TORQUE. Horsepower doesn't come into play, but 400 at the wheels should be around 360-370 RW torque, output. Seems like you are exceeding the rated power already. Doesnt mean your trans is definitely going to blow up any second, it means that ZF recommends 450 ft/lbs is the upper limit for regular use. So depending on how hard you drive (always bagging on it) or how normal you drive (only using full throttle occasionally) will determine how long it will last.
As far as what the engine can take, many shops have said the Pentastar V6 is built very robust, probably no issues at 450-500 crank hp, the tune will be the bigger factor. Running it on the ragged edge to get the big hp numbers will surely give you bragging rights but giving up 20-25 hp at the wheels to have a safer tune would seem to be the prudent thing. I see you have a custom tune, and thats great, considering RIPP's reputation for melting pistons.

As far as power loss through the drivetrain, I think it's right in line with other Jeep AWD systems. You can find alot of V8 dyno graphs, especially for the WK1's, and this 30% drivetrain loss is actually in line with what you will see. SRT,s putting 310 to the wheels is typical. Thats a 110 hp loss with a similiar AWD system.
__________________
2014 Laredo Altitude.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 05wkguy For This Useful Post:
  #19  
Old 03-05-2016, 03:18 PM
ajag's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Boston, Ma
Posts: 710
Thanks: 21
Thanked 144 Times in 108 Posts
Rep Power: 2053
ajag is on a distinguished road
Re: How much power you think the 3.6L pentatstar is capable of?

Thanks for the info..very useful

I received the smaller pulley yesterday for my supercharger..it's supposed to increase boost output a couple of lbs...so with this one on it should get me in the 12-13lbs of boost range

I'm doing a dyno day next Saturday so the plan is to get a nice and safe custom tune

I'm really hoping to get 420-430whp and anything beyond that would be just gravy

I've been doing a lot of tune work with a remote custom tuner but the dyno day should really help dial it in


The guy tuning my jeep next week is telling me that he prefers to tune via hp instead of Diablo ..doesn't matter to me really as I'm just looking for a safe and reliable tune
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-10-2016, 10:46 AM
Member
My Jeep: 2015 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Scottsdale
Posts: 605
Thanks: 98
Thanked 256 Times in 137 Posts
Rep Power: 15867
wk2project has a reputation beyond reputewk2project has a reputation beyond reputewk2project has a reputation beyond reputewk2project has a reputation beyond reputewk2project has a reputation beyond reputewk2project has a reputation beyond reputewk2project has a reputation beyond reputewk2project has a reputation beyond reputewk2project has a reputation beyond reputewk2project has a reputation beyond reputewk2project has a reputation beyond repute
Garage
Re: How much power you think the 3.6L pentatstar is capable of?

this is fun to watch. ill likely land somewhere in between stg 1 and where you are when I finally get this done. Im doin it more for the offroad torque...and well, for the occasional unsuspecting (insert anything fun here) at a redlight.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-10-2016, 10:59 AM
ajag's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Boston, Ma
Posts: 710
Thanks: 21
Thanked 144 Times in 108 Posts
Rep Power: 2053
ajag is on a distinguished road
Re: How much power you think the 3.6L pentatstar is capable of?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alludc View Post
this is fun to watch. ill likely land somewhere in between stg 1 and where you are when I finally get this done. Im doin it more for the offroad torque...and well, for the occasional unsuspecting (insert anything fun here) at a redlight.
Nice!
Are you supercharging it also?

this is what the stage 2 intercooler looks like...its SOOO huge there isn't room for it to be even a 1/4" bigger
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_2982.jpg (569.1 KB, 67 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2985.jpg (571.0 KB, 70 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2987.jpg (555.1 KB, 64 views)
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ajag For This Useful Post:
  #22  
Old 03-10-2016, 11:08 AM
Member
My Jeep: 2015 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Scottsdale
Posts: 605
Thanks: 98
Thanked 256 Times in 137 Posts
Rep Power: 15867
wk2project has a reputation beyond reputewk2project has a reputation beyond reputewk2project has a reputation beyond reputewk2project has a reputation beyond reputewk2project has a reputation beyond reputewk2project has a reputation beyond reputewk2project has a reputation beyond reputewk2project has a reputation beyond reputewk2project has a reputation beyond reputewk2project has a reputation beyond reputewk2project has a reputation beyond repute
Garage
Re: How much power you think the 3.6L pentatstar is capable of?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajag View Post
Nice!
Are you supercharging it also?

this is what the stage 2 intercooler looks like...its SOOO huge there isn't room for it to be even a 1/4" bigger

thats the plan...I think/hope/want/need
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-10-2016, 11:16 AM
ajag's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Boston, Ma
Posts: 710
Thanks: 21
Thanked 144 Times in 108 Posts
Rep Power: 2053
ajag is on a distinguished road
Re: How much power you think the 3.6L pentatstar is capable of?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alludc View Post
thats the plan...I think/hope/want/need
well....if you want a good deal on a stage 1 kit let me know..I just listed the stage 1 kit I had on my jeep for sale...

the stage 2 is the same blower...just larger injectors/intercooler and piping
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-10-2016, 06:48 PM
ajag's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Boston, Ma
Posts: 710
Thanks: 21
Thanked 144 Times in 108 Posts
Rep Power: 2053
ajag is on a distinguished road
Re: How much power you think the 3.6L pentatstar is capable of?

Well...I had the high boost pulley installed on my supercharger today and it's Insane!
The power comes on so fast now it's noticeably faster than the larger pulley ..it absolutely rips off the line now

The boost went from 9lbs with the old pulley to 14lbs with this smaller (altitude pulley from ripp)

My last dyno trip netted 403awd hp at 9lbs running rich

I'm at 14-15lbs now..I have a dyno day scheduled on Saturday so I'm hoping to get a safe 450awd hp out of it

Can't wait to see what it tunes out at!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are the wk2's capable? I think so Fuelxc Grand Cherokee - WK2 - 7 09-22-2014 01:20 PM
Samsung Galaxy S3 capable of text messaging through 430N? JeepMonster Audio/Visual/Navigation 14 11-12-2012 02:07 PM
Im looking for some classy, but capable off road wheel, options please. NikonKiem Suspension/Brakes/Wheels/Tires 10 11-20-2011 12:49 PM
Limited 4x4 off road capable ? aquaanox Grand Cherokee - WK2 - 16 06-27-2011 12:57 PM
E85 capable questions. Pentastar 3.6L abby Engine Performance/Intakes/Exhausts 45 05-08-2011 09:55 AM

» Premium Vendor Showcase
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 - JeepGarage.Org
The Jeep Grand Cherokee Owners Community

JeepGarage.org is in no way associated with or endorsed by FCA US LLC. Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram, Mopar and SRT are registered trademarks of FCA US LLC.