Go Back   Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum > Jeep Platform Discussion > Grand Cherokee - WK2 - > Engine Performance/Intakes/Exhausts

Join Jeep Garage Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
  #61  
Old 09-25-2013, 03:23 PM
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 5.7L WK2
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,333
Thanks: 30
Thanked 78 Times in 71 Posts
Rep Power: 43773
lstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I'm blown away by the MPG on the 2014 3.6L

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baalic View Post
also, im able to get my Hemi to the 20's quite easily in town, feathering the gas and still doing the speed limit +5. on a 20 mile trip the other day, my evic was reading 31 mpg on the highway, then of course i went off roading and that went to shit lol.

also, "instant torq" on a turbo? what are you smoking. most turbo's have some sort of lag, as they rely in exhaust gasses to spool, and this create boost, a supercharger turbo is belt driven as said, which creates less lag but hurt gas mileage at the expense of power. a centrifugal turbo adds power and fuel economy. Dont believe me? let the turbo on a diesel go out and watch mpg plummet , or take the same ci engine one N/A and one turbo and compare the mileage.
Eggshually it depends on whether it is a driven charger or an exhaust driven charger.
Chargers driven by the engine can step to full boost notably faster than exhaust driven, but even modern exhaust driven ones with ability to dump pressure can stay spooled up.

Multi stage chargers are even better at quick boost.

All types tend to help avoid power loss at higher altitude.

None violate the laws of thermodynamics in that power costs fuel, although direct injection, higher compression, etc. help.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 09-25-2013, 03:31 PM
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 5.7L WK2
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,333
Thanks: 30
Thanked 78 Times in 71 Posts
Rep Power: 43773
lstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I'm blown away by the MPG on the 2014 3.6L

[refusing to quote]

Although diesels can be made to keep a nice power band, e.g. the V-10 in the Audi R8 LeMans racer, may I respectfully suggest your comment about V8s not belonging in SUVs belongs in Consumer Reports.

It seems rather presumptive of you to even try to define what type of engine works best in any particular driving environment or mix thereof.

One item, other than racing diesels, they tend not to be known for is higher speed power band. Maybe a 16 speed transmission would help, but then you'd need a fairly powerful diesel to still allow mountain freeway cruising without requiring a 6 month lead time to pass.

If you really want power, get a turbine. Unfortunately only a few truckers about half a century ago got to try out a turbine powered semi.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 09-25-2013, 03:48 PM
ExcursionDiesel's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: W. TN.
Posts: 1,542
Thanks: 4
Thanked 219 Times in 147 Posts
Rep Power: 2906
ExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by lstowell View Post
One item, other than racing diesels, they tend not to be known for is higher speed power band. Maybe a 16 speed transmission would help, but then you'd need a fairly powerful diesel to still allow mountain freeway cruising without requiring a 6 month lead time to pass.
Normally aspirated engines run out of air at altitude. That's what we are feeling in the mountains and why we need the "higher output" of a strong engine at altitude.

Forced induction engines don't suffer from that nearly as much so they have nearly the same power available in the "mountain test." The 3.0 CRD will perform admirably in that test as does the hemi.

Those poor little 4 bangers and high revving v6's are not suitable for the task of climbing mountains under a load....and lifting 5000 lbs up a hill while overcoming aero drag at 70mph is serious task! Revving to 4k+ in 4th to maintain speed on a grade is not my idea of fun.

bd
__________________
----------------------
The founder of JeepGarage.org, Scottina06, has a son Max who is in need of corrective surgery from an infection at birth that left one leg 4 inches short. We need to support our Jeep brothers. His family has started a fund on giveforward.com. If you have ever been helped by someone else, now is a good time to pay it forward. Here is a link to that page. God bless you! http://gfwd.at/1rz33PW
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 09-25-2013, 03:52 PM
f1anatic's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Illinoize
Posts: 954
Thanks: 5
Thanked 67 Times in 49 Posts
Rep Power: 158180
f1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I'm blown away by the MPG on the 2014 3.6L

Quote:
Originally Posted by lstowell View Post
Sadly, in the not too distant future, the Hemi may disappear or be totally neutered.

I have no idea what it would take to convert the V8 to direct injection which tends to be good for mileage and performance.

In the meantime, I'll thank you to keep your cotton pickin hands off mine. Its the first vehicle that can truly pass the "I-70 Test" since a 73 Porsche and a 66 427 Impala.

[I-70 test consists of driving west out of Denver on I-70. If you've done it in a smaller engined vehicle, no explanation necessary]
you have a very narrow experience with cars then. I have driven your roads and on Colorado, probably 3000 miles over 4 different trips.

2009 with a 2.5 H4 Subaru Legacy non turbo
2010 with a 3.6 H6 Subaru Outback non turbo
2011 with a 3.6 V6 Grand Cherokee model 2011
2013 with a 3.6 V6 Grand Cherokee model 2014, my own.

Your traffic is nothing too spectacular. I found it more relaxing than Chicagoland. The altitude does decrease power but nothing unmanageable. Let me know if you want me to post pictures of your awesome Colorado and those cars.

there are problems related to direct fuel injection. It is not a perfect solution.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 09-25-2013, 04:27 PM
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 132
Thanks: 58
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 554
hotspur is on a distinguished road
Re: I'm blown away by the MPG on the 2014 3.6L

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExcursionDiesel View Post
No sir. Compliance with EPA fleet mileage requirements are the primary push for manufacturers to produce more efficient cars. Enough customers have shown that they are willing to pay for the larger motors. I could afford to pay $8 a gallon and still drive the same miles if I wanted....I just don't want to....but some do. Market forces account for some of the reasons v8's are declining but EPA requirements are the last nail in the coffin. Thanks to technology, it hasn't happened yet....but times are changing and the EPA requirements are slowly choking out the petro performance options. And we can thank the bike riding socialist urbanites for that. To deny that agenda is at work is to place one's head firmly in the sand.

bd
What nonsense.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 09-25-2013, 04:42 PM
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 5.7L WK2
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,333
Thanks: 30
Thanked 78 Times in 71 Posts
Rep Power: 43773
lstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond reputelstowell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I'm blown away by the MPG on the 2014 3.6L

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExcursionDiesel View Post
Normally aspirated engines run out of air at altitude. That's what we are feeling in the mountains and why we need the "higher output" of a strong engine at altitude.

Forced induction engines don't suffer from that nearly as much so they have nearly the same power available in the "mountain test." The 3.0 CRD will perform admirably in that test as does the hemi.

Those poor little 4 bangers and high revving v6's are not suitable for the task of climbing mountains under a load....and lifting 5000 lbs up a hill while overcoming aero drag at 70mph is serious task! Revving to 4k+ in 4th to maintain speed on a grade is not my idea of fun.

bd
Problem is that the diesel tends to run out of grunt at pretty close to typical western mountain freeway speed.

Chargers aren't magic, they just avoid losing power by keeping intake air density higher than is typically possible with normal engine. A turbo smaller engine isn't going to beat a larger normally aspirated engine without a lot of magic fairy dust, higher compression, pumping more air, more fuel, direct injection, higher compression, etc.

I personally wonder how long diesels will last, given the currently available modern gas engine technology backed by electric motors in a hybrid for the state of the art low end torque and high end power.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 09-25-2013, 05:14 PM
f1anatic's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Illinoize
Posts: 954
Thanks: 5
Thanked 67 Times in 49 Posts
Rep Power: 158180
f1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I'm blown away by the MPG on the 2014 3.6L

Quote:
Originally Posted by lstowell View Post
Problem is that the diesel tends to run out of grunt at pretty close to typical western mountain freeway speed.

Chargers aren't magic, they just avoid losing power by keeping intake air density higher than is typically possible with normal engine. A turbo smaller engine isn't going to beat a larger normally aspirated engine without a lot of magic fairy dust, higher compression, pumping more air, more fuel, direct injection, higher compression, etc.

I personally wonder how long diesels will last, given the currently available modern gas engine technology backed by electric motors in a hybrid for the state of the art low end torque and high end power.
Several years ago I went to Tail of the Dragon, North Carolina, in the Smoky Mountains. Look that up if you don't know what the hype is about.

I drove my Subaru. One evening, in the Smokies, going to Clingman's Dome, I found myself behind an LS2 powered Corvette. The altitude is about 6000 feet. He was a good driver and gunning it, but he didn't pull away from my little snailed 4 banger. I mean with less than half the displacement and half the number of cylinders and a heavier car I still wonder how I could keep up. As years went by, I realized my driving skills are just 1 step below that of Michael Schumacher and on that day, that road high up in the mountains, the turbo had nothing to do with equalizing the performance. Neither did the AWD for the matter but that's another story. It was simply my pure awesomeness.

Have you ever looked into what % horsepower a normally aspirated car loses with increasing altitude? Diesels, turbo and superchargers trump V8s. Or think of it another way. Those civil aviation private airplane engines, are they turboprop or turbojet...or are they large displacement multi-cylinder engines?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 09-25-2013, 05:43 PM
ExcursionDiesel's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: W. TN.
Posts: 1,542
Thanks: 4
Thanked 219 Times in 147 Posts
Rep Power: 2906
ExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotspur View Post
What nonsense.
Wow...Really? Because I don't drink the coolaid?

An immediate family member of mine works for the a well known environmental legal group as an attorney. They make no bones about their environmental agenda and don't care about the ramifications to the economy or business.

Another member is a US Democratic Senator. I know, sir, of what I speak. I have spent time discussing the backroom politics of the environmental movement. It isn't all bad, but it isn't all good either. The political pressure is tremendous and can be economically destructive.

I feel I have a clear perspective...not exclusive or necessarily 100% correct...I am open to learn. Your "Pure nonesense" comment means I don't view things your way....and that's fine. It is a defensive response typically used in the absence of logic. Enjoy the coolaid!

bd
__________________
----------------------
The founder of JeepGarage.org, Scottina06, has a son Max who is in need of corrective surgery from an infection at birth that left one leg 4 inches short. We need to support our Jeep brothers. His family has started a fund on giveforward.com. If you have ever been helped by someone else, now is a good time to pay it forward. Here is a link to that page. God bless you! http://gfwd.at/1rz33PW
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 09-25-2013, 06:09 PM
Member
My Jeep: 2014 5.7L WK2
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Amarillo Texas
Posts: 279
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 754
Baalic has a reputation beyond reputeBaalic has a reputation beyond reputeBaalic has a reputation beyond repute
this is all assuming old tech at altitude guys. once the ECU/PCM learns the altitude the loss in hp is a lot less. but valid points are made regarding DA "density altitude for non racers"


sea level cars are typically much faster then at altitude and forced induction does suffer a lot less loss. my 4.0 jeep felt it had about 65 hp at around 12k' my trans am felt about 180@ 7k' but my trans am could still go my jeep.... i thought i was going to have to push it ..

that is one advantage for FI cars over NA.

but i say give me twin turbo ls7 any-day!!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 09-26-2013, 07:20 AM
GCLimited's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mass
Posts: 900
Thanks: 0
Thanked 40 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 3475
GCLimited has a reputation beyond reputeGCLimited has a reputation beyond reputeGCLimited has a reputation beyond reputeGCLimited has a reputation beyond reputeGCLimited has a reputation beyond reputeGCLimited has a reputation beyond reputeGCLimited has a reputation beyond reputeGCLimited has a reputation beyond reputeGCLimited has a reputation beyond reputeGCLimited has a reputation beyond reputeGCLimited has a reputation beyond repute
Garage
Re: I'm blown away by the MPG on the 2014 3.6L

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExcursionDiesel View Post

So you DO want to decide what I drive then? Would you like to tell me what to think and believe?
I'm beginning to think you wear an aluminum foil hat. Talk about paranoia...geeze! The demise of the V8 someday will not be the end of the world...or of freedom. Do you feel the same about the tube T.V. as well?



Quote:
I think these things are best left to the free market of ideas and commerce. If more people WANT to walk, ride bikes, etc..the market will react accordingly. I have no problem with anyone acting according to their own conscience...just don't act to impede mine.
But the free market IS reacting...and it's because of high energy prices worldwide, and this is why people are choosing of their own free will to buy less fossil fuels...be it more fuel efficient vehicles (with smaller engines), public transportation, or even biking...and businesses are reacting in kind. The bonus to all this is saving money & natural resources, less dependance on foreign oil (less of our troops that have to die), and cleaner air for ALL of us to breath...you like breathing cleaner air, right?

Quote:
EDIT: Btw...isn't the Pentastar mileage awesome for a 5000 lb vehicle?
Sure is...one of the many reasons I bought it, but my 2014 GC Limited 4x4 doesn't weigh 5,000 lbs.

Quote:
Just as a matter of perspective, the Grand Cherokee v6 is considered an excessive and wasteful SUV by many so please don't feel like you are saving the earth with it!
I don't think anyone in this thread has said that, but since you brought this subject up, the V6 does get better gas mileage than the V8!

__________________
Still waiting for the next V6 transmission update from Chrysler!
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 09-26-2013, 07:36 AM
f1anatic's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Illinoize
Posts: 954
Thanks: 5
Thanked 67 Times in 49 Posts
Rep Power: 158180
f1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond reputef1anatic has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I'm blown away by the MPG on the 2014 3.6L

Errr...a Limited will weigh 5000 lbs when equipped with ORA2 and LUX packages (air suspension components, skid plates, added seat ventilation, panoramic sunroof, etc) . Mine does. And yes this needs to be re-stated often: the 8-speed and the Pentastar 3.6 V6 are awesome together, providing amazing fuel economy for a heavy, not very aerodynamic vehicle.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 09-26-2013, 07:48 AM
GCLimited's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mass
Posts: 900
Thanks: 0
Thanked 40 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 3475
GCLimited has a reputation beyond reputeGCLimited has a reputation beyond reputeGCLimited has a reputation beyond reputeGCLimited has a reputation beyond reputeGCLimited has a reputation beyond reputeGCLimited has a reputation beyond reputeGCLimited has a reputation beyond reputeGCLimited has a reputation beyond reputeGCLimited has a reputation beyond reputeGCLimited has a reputation beyond reputeGCLimited has a reputation beyond repute
Garage
Re: I'm blown away by the MPG on the 2014 3.6L

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1anatic View Post

Errr...a Limited will weigh 5000 lbs when equipped with ORA2 and LUX packages (air suspension components, skid plates, added seat ventilation, panoramic sunroof, etc).
I don't have any of that...except for the front & middle skid plates, so my 2014 GC V6 Limited 4x4 doesn't weigh 5,000 lbs.



But I agree that for a heavy vehicle with the aerodynamic profile of a brick it gets as good gas mileage as it does.

__________________

__________________
Still waiting for the next V6 transmission update from Chrysler!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
2014

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
POST 2014 V8 MPG's gcbimmer Grand Cherokee - WK2 - 83 09-15-2014 05:43 PM
2014 V6 MPG Thread mceb Grand Cherokee - WK2 - 20 08-15-2013 10:03 AM
2014 Hemi EPA MPG mpatel1080 Grand Cherokee - WK2 - 13 03-18-2013 09:53 PM
2014 hemi real life mpg bertball50 Grand Cherokee - WK2 - 19 03-08-2013 06:51 PM
2014 V6/V8/CRD MPG Thread Bucky Grand Cherokee - WK2 - 12 03-04-2013 12:25 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 - JeepGarage.Org
The Jeep Grand Cherokee Owners Community