New 2017 pinging? - Page 4 - Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum

Go Back   Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum > Jeep Platform Discussion > Grand Cherokee - WK2 - > Engine Performance/Intakes/Exhausts

Join Jeep Garage Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
  #37  
Old 09-29-2016, 06:44 PM
Michael Plummer's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2014 5.7L WK2
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 156
Thanks: 12
Thanked 84 Times in 45 Posts
Rep Power: 16030
Michael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New 2017 pinging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 13ovsummit View Post
This! The computer should be adjusting for any ping/knock.
I thought that's what I said but to clarify. The knock sensor is tuned to the specific frequency of an engine pinging. The ECU expects to see a normal output/signal from the knock sensor signifying everything is okay. When the knock sensor detects or pickups knock/pinging or noise in some cases, the ECU will adjust ignition timing until the knock/pinging is no longer present.

I hope this helps
Michael Plummer

__________________
2014 Jeep CG 5.7L Overland: 304rwhp & 337rwtq & 14.58@95.18 (K&N CAI, Diablosport inTune, Pedal Commander)
1994 Mustang Saleen: 890rwhp & 771rwtq
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #38  
Old 09-29-2016, 08:19 PM
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,728
Thanks: 39
Thanked 187 Times in 146 Posts
Rep Power: 76203
mswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New 2017 pinging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Plummer View Post
I thought that's what I said but to clarify. The knock sensor is tuned to the specific frequency of an engine pinging. The ECU expects to see a normal output/signal from the knock sensor signifying everything is okay. When the knock sensor detects or pickups knock/pinging or noise in some cases, the ECU will adjust ignition timing until the knock/pinging is no longer present.

I hope this helps
Michael Plummer
I never hear pinging in any car in last 15 years even if I put octane LESS than than what is recommended. It is very smooth and imperceptible.

We put 87 in my wife's 99 Passat when it recommended 89 for 12 years and 230K. And it never pinged. We do the same on her 2011 CC. Because the computer adjusts.

Putting 89 is a reasonable test but should be considered only a test. You should be able to put 87 and not get ANY pinging.

My newer 2017 V6 over my 2015 V6 is noticeably more refined.
__________________
07-24-2017 Summit 3.6L Velvet Red W/Black & Brown Int
Tires: OEM 20"/Nokian 18"
Situational awareness: Valentine One with V1Driver on IOS
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 09-29-2016, 08:42 PM
jeep12joe's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2012 5.7L WK2
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 90
Thanks: 24
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 331
jeep12joe is on a distinguished road
Garage
Re: New 2017 pinging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 13ovsummit View Post
This! The computer should be adjusting for any ping/knock. Even if ping is gone with 93 gas, but returns with lower octane gas, the dealer should check it out IMO. But make sure you have 87 gas in the tank, and you have ping when you take it in ...

Man I am so glad someone else finally said the dealer should be involved. I know Jeep dealers don't have the best reputations for service, but if I had a brand new vehicle with ANY type of problem I would exhaust every single option with my warranty before I tried anything myself.


Sent from my iPhone using JeepGarage
__________________
2012 Overland Summit, Rugged Brown.

Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 09-30-2016, 04:24 AM
Michael Plummer's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2014 5.7L WK2
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 156
Thanks: 12
Thanked 84 Times in 45 Posts
Rep Power: 16030
Michael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New 2017 pinging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mswlogo View Post
I never hear pinging in any car in last 15 years even if I put octane LESS than than what is recommended. It is very smooth and imperceptible..
And for any stock unmodified vehicle it should be. Once heavy modifications begins or improperly maintained the chance for detonation increases if proper engine management aka tune isn't met and the vehicle isn't maintained properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mswlogo View Post
We put 87 in my wife's 99 Passat when it recommended 89 for 12 years and 230K. And it never pinged. We do the same on her 2011 CC. Because the computer adjusts. .
The ECU will adjust total timing based off of load, if the vehicle has a mass air meter. If the vehicle is speed density based, load aka VE table is calculated from inputs from certain sensors. In both cases, you basically have a spark advance table and the ECU will adjust total timing based on load. If the vehicle isn't equipped with a knock sensor, it has no idea if it's detonating and it's going to assume you have the correct octane for your needs. The ECU has no way to determine octane rating. It relies on sensors like a knock sensor to tell it what's going on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mswlogo View Post
Putting 89 is a reasonable test but should be considered only a test. You should be able to put 87 and not get ANY pinging..
Correct and I believe that's why myself and others were recommending it because it was easy enough to try. Its tough to troubleshoot a vehicle online. You have to assume the information you're getting is accurate and the vehicle is in good running condition. Seeing that the vehicle is new, it's likely it's in good running condition. Next variable, is the noise the owner is hearing detonation? Hence, the advice to try higher octane gasoline as a test to verify.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mswlogo View Post
My newer 2017 V6 over my 2015 V6 is noticeably more refined.
If the engine management system is the same in both vehicles, then the refinement you speak of is not associated with the ECU. Now that's not to say it doesn't drive better or feel more refined because it could be associated with improvements in Noise, Vibration and Harshness (NVH) components.

I hope this helps
Michael Plummer
__________________
2014 Jeep CG 5.7L Overland: 304rwhp & 337rwtq & 14.58@95.18 (K&N CAI, Diablosport inTune, Pedal Commander)
1994 Mustang Saleen: 890rwhp & 771rwtq
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 09-30-2016, 04:38 AM
Michael Plummer's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2014 5.7L WK2
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 156
Thanks: 12
Thanked 84 Times in 45 Posts
Rep Power: 16030
Michael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond reputeMichael Plummer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New 2017 pinging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeep12joe View Post
I know Jeep dealers don't have the best reputations for service,
Agreed but there are other elements like the people in the service department that will make one a good service department or one a bad service department.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeep12joe View Post
but if I had a brand new vehicle with ANY type of problem I would exhaust every single option with my warranty before I tried anything myself.
Sent from my iPhone using JeepGarage
Agreed. But if he has something entering into the combustion chamber that's causing the detonation, then the Dealer should be able to fix it. But if that's not the case, then the Dealer has two things it can do. Change the spark advance curve (not sure if they're capable of doing that) or recommend the use of higher octane gas.....that's my opinion.

Michael Plummer
__________________
2014 Jeep CG 5.7L Overland: 304rwhp & 337rwtq & 14.58@95.18 (K&N CAI, Diablosport inTune, Pedal Commander)
1994 Mustang Saleen: 890rwhp & 771rwtq
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 09-30-2016, 05:55 AM
tomk's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 5.7L WK2
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Amherst, MA
Posts: 742
Thanks: 15
Thanked 86 Times in 72 Posts
Rep Power: 1565979
tomk has a reputation beyond reputetomk has a reputation beyond reputetomk has a reputation beyond reputetomk has a reputation beyond reputetomk has a reputation beyond reputetomk has a reputation beyond reputetomk has a reputation beyond reputetomk has a reputation beyond reputetomk has a reputation beyond reputetomk has a reputation beyond reputetomk has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New 2017 pinging?

Knock sensor should pull timing no matter the advance curve.

My WAG is that you have a bad knock sensor. I'd also guess that checking the OBDII knock data should tell the tale
__________________
2007 WK Limited 5.7L
2014 WK2 Overland 5.7L !!
And a few past Durangos
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to tomk For This Useful Post:
  #43  
Old 09-30-2016, 09:18 AM
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,728
Thanks: 39
Thanked 187 Times in 146 Posts
Rep Power: 76203
mswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New 2017 pinging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Plummer View Post
And for any stock unmodified vehicle it should be. Once heavy modifications begins or improperly maintained the chance for detonation increases if proper engine management aka tune isn't met and the vehicle isn't maintained properly.


The ECU will adjust total timing based off of load, if the vehicle has a mass air meter. If the vehicle is speed density based, load aka VE table is calculated from inputs from certain sensors. In both cases, you basically have a spark advance table and the ECU will adjust total timing based on load. If the vehicle isn't equipped with a knock sensor, it has no idea if it's detonating and it's going to assume you have the correct octane for your needs. The ECU has no way to determine octane rating. It relies on sensors like a knock sensor to tell it what's going on.



Correct and I believe that's why myself and others were recommending it because it was easy enough to try. Its tough to troubleshoot a vehicle online. You have to assume the information you're getting is accurate and the vehicle is in good running condition. Seeing that the vehicle is new, it's likely it's in good running condition. Next variable, is the noise the owner is hearing detonation? Hence, the advice to try higher octane gasoline as a test to verify.



If the engine management system is the same in both vehicles, then the refinement you speak of is not associated with the ECU. Now that's not to say it doesn't drive better or feel more refined because it could be associated with improvements in Noise, Vibration and Harshness (NVH) components.

I hope this helps
Michael Plummer
I never said it was ECU or anything. I just said it's more refined. Could be different shift points for all I know. It's just more refined.
__________________
07-24-2017 Summit 3.6L Velvet Red W/Black & Brown Int
Tires: OEM 20"/Nokian 18"
Situational awareness: Valentine One with V1Driver on IOS
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 09-30-2016, 02:19 PM
vnbWK2's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 534
Thanks: 10
Thanked 20 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 2805
vnbWK2 is on a distinguished road
Re: New 2017 pinging?

I was definitely planning on bringing this up to my dealership at my first free oil change visit. I only have 1200 miles so it may not be until a few more weeks.

Just to update: My pinging is 99% gone. It's not 100% because I did still barely noitced a hint of a slight ping on a couple of occassions. Probably due to the fact that my octane level is still barely at 89 (due to the mix of 87/89/93 in my tank right now in order to bring up the octane level). I can't duplicate it, so that's good.

Fill up history: (Note - tank has a 24.6 gallon capacity)
Topped off with 16 gallons of Sunoco 89 when I had 1/4 tank left of Shell 87 (66/33 ratio equates to 87.45 octane). Still pinging.
Drove a couple of days then topped off with 6.6 gallons of Sunoco 93 (75/25 ratio equates to 88.8375 octane). Pinging mostly gone.

My plan is refill as much as I can (at less than 1/4 left) with Sunoco 89 at my next fill up in hopes that this would do the trick. If all goes well and no pinging on 89, I will then refill with Sunoco 87 again as much as I can to see if the pinging returns. If no pinging on 87 this time around then I'm thinking the pinging I had experienced before on the 87 octane was bad gas (i.e., from either some water in the gas or octane rating was below 87). If it does return then I have something to bring up with the dealership which may be a faulty knock sensor. Question: Would a faulty knock sensor throw a warning light or code?
__________________
2017 WK2 Limited 3.6L - Billet Silver/Black

(O||||||||O)
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 09-30-2016, 05:51 PM
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,728
Thanks: 39
Thanked 187 Times in 146 Posts
Rep Power: 76203
mswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond reputemswlogo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New 2017 pinging?

One other thing OP might check is the oil.

I highly doubt it, but if it had insufficient oil in there or the wrong oil it *might* have some odd side effects. Or for that matter too much oil might cause issues.

Sometimes it is worth digging into things a little before running to the dealer because sometimes a dealer can make a problem worse. Or they might possibly mask it and not get to the root of it.

However 89 Octane probably would not have improved it if oil was an issue. But that could be placebo at work.
__________________
07-24-2017 Summit 3.6L Velvet Red W/Black & Brown Int
Tires: OEM 20"/Nokian 18"
Situational awareness: Valentine One with V1Driver on IOS
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 09-30-2016, 06:21 PM
vnbWK2's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 534
Thanks: 10
Thanked 20 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 2805
vnbWK2 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by mswlogo View Post
One other thing OP might check is the oil.

I highly doubt it, but if it had insufficient oil in there or the wrong oil it *might* have some odd side effects. Or for that matter too much oil might cause issues.

Sometimes it is worth digging into things a little before running to the dealer because sometimes a dealer can make a problem worse. Or they might possibly mask it and not get to the root of it.

However 89 Octane probably would not have improved it if oil was an issue. But that could be placebo at work.
The oil level is fine I checked it several times. As far as the oil grade or weight I would have no idea what is in there since it's brand new. But I highly doubt that the noise I was experiencing was anything other than pinging. Since it has now been gone since I have switched to 89. Drove home today from work and the pinging was totally gone I never heard it again. So hopefully that was the issue, 87 octane, and switching to the next grade up fixed it. That does not mean that it should be pinging on 87 unless it really was bad gas or water in their tanks. It is the end of the season where they switch from summer blend to Winter Blend. So perhaps I did get the bottom of the barrel summer blend gas and it may have been less than 87 octane, who knows. But I am glad that switching to 89 fixed it but I do want to make one final test and fill up 100% with 87 octane just to see what happens. Like I said if I do not experience any more pinging with 87 then I would have to take an educated guess right now and say that it was bad gas. If it pings again with 87 then I would think I have a faulty knock sensor, I or some other faulty sensor since I doubt I would run into another tank of bad gas ,what are the odds. Anyway I will report back in a week or so when I fill up with Sunoco 87 and let you guys know. Thank you for all your help it's much appreciated.
__________________
2017 WK2 Limited 3.6L - Billet Silver/Black

(O||||||||O)
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 09-30-2016, 09:16 PM
nookie's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 314
Thanks: 3
Thanked 47 Times in 34 Posts
Rep Power: 6703
nookie has a reputation beyond reputenookie has a reputation beyond reputenookie has a reputation beyond reputenookie has a reputation beyond reputenookie has a reputation beyond reputenookie has a reputation beyond reputenookie has a reputation beyond reputenookie has a reputation beyond reputenookie has a reputation beyond reputenookie has a reputation beyond reputenookie has a reputation beyond repute
Garage
Re: New 2017 pinging?

When's the movie coming out??😎
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 10-01-2016, 07:37 AM
hdrolling's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2017 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Grays Creek, NC
Posts: 236
Thanks: 2
Thanked 45 Times in 39 Posts
Rep Power: 334
hdrolling is on a distinguished road
Garage
Re: New 2017 pinging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vnbWK2 View Post
I was definitely planning on bringing this up to my dealership at my first free oil change visit. I only have 1200 miles so it may not be until a few more weeks.
Our dealer has us getting oil changes every 5000 miles, is that what your's does or is it 3000?

I had to go check our paperwork, definitely says 5000 first oil change.
__________________
2017 WK2 Summit, 4WD, 3.6 L, Rear DVD, Velvet Red, Dark Sienna Brown/Black Interior. Tazer, SB
Retired Army, Airborne Infantry (NH Native)
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to hdrolling For This Useful Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2017 Cherokee - What's New Milous 2014+ Cherokee-KL 35 10-28-2016 03:46 PM
Gave up waiting for MY 2017 Car Play and Bought a 2017 Summit Today mswlogo Grand Cherokee - WK2 - 48 09-07-2016 04:25 PM
New Member - Looking at ordering a 2017 JGC Overland 4x4 diesel monstersinc1 New Members - Welcome! 2 08-13-2016 06:57 AM
Buying a used 2014 Range Rover Sport HSE V6 versus a new 2017 JGC Summit Sleestak Grand Cherokee - WK2 - 21 05-22-2016 08:04 PM
2012 3.6L pinging/knocking mixer440 Trouble Shooting/Problems/Service 2 11-09-2012 04:42 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 - JeepGarage.Org
The Jeep Grand Cherokee Owners Community

JeepGarage.org is in no way associated with or endorsed by FCA US LLC. Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram, Mopar and SRT are registered trademarks of FCA US LLC.