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Old 03-18-2015, 12:52 PM
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Pro tip from a Dyno guy & Volant CAI install

Pro tip from a guy who ran a Dyno shop for a few years....

Intakes (when designed properly) absolutely DO work. DO make power. MAY increase mileage.

Dyno results can be tricky. When you first install an intake, you are introducing more air to the engine than the stock box. This in turn leans out the air/fuel ratio of the vehicle. leaner=more power. This is temporary, as PCMs learn/adjust to maintain a preset a/f ratio as closely as possible to parameters. In many cases, companies will dyno a stock car (while its warmed up from ride over), then let it cool, then install intake, then make a couple more runs. This is a fairly basic dyno trick to show pretty numbers.

back in 2005 we were building our own intakes for late model trucks. So we used my 2003 5.3 Silverado to test ours vs others. We took painstaking efforts to recreate exact conditions including ambient temps, density altitude measurements, vehicle temps, and also gave the PCM time to adjust the a/f between tests. We literally did eveything overnight where weather conditions remained the same all night. We did:
Dyno stock,
dyno brand A.
back to stock and dyno again
Dyno brand B.
Over and over. Yes, it was an incredible pain in the ass to prove a point.

You also cannot truly acct for power added to a CAI vehicle on a stationary dyno. We always used a very large heavy duty industrial fan to simulate at least some actual air movement.

At the end of the test almost all CAIs made more power. some, very little. Others including Volant/airaid/and ours made fairly significant gains. By significant, I mean 8-11 HP on the big end and 4-7ft/lbs. Seriously, if you expect more out of a CAI you are really fooling yourself. However, in most cases...the power was seen across the rpm range. For 200-300 bucks you are getting something that looks and sounds cool and adds in most cases, a few extra ponies. Its a fair deal.

All that being said, I installed a Volant on my Hemi 2012 last night and after 50 miles or so I can say I am very happy. Install was a BREEZE! fit and finish is very good compared to others ive used in the past. Sound...well, hell...I have an x pipe and flowmaster 40s. Hard to hear over that . Butt dyno says theres somethin there though...and past experience backs that up.

Thanks for reading!

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Old 03-18-2015, 12:57 PM
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Re: Pro tip from a Dyno guy & Volant CAI install

Awesome!

I was a member of a Tahoe forum, and BlackBear did some side-by-side comparisons of different CAI. Their conclusions were about the same. IIRC, Volant did very good. I'm hoping to put one on our Hemi very soon.
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Old 03-18-2015, 09:55 PM
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Re: Pro tip from a Dyno guy & Volant CAI install

You can't compare factory air intakes systems of ten years ago to current models. Most new vehicles on the market today have great intake set ups just to squeeze efficiency out of them.
As far as dyno runs, they are not what I would call very accurate, an engine dyno cell where everything from temp and humidity is controlled would be.
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Old 03-18-2015, 10:55 PM
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Re: Pro tip from a Dyno guy & Volant CAI install

Another thing to note.... Many new vehicles, ours included, do not have sensors to detect the increased air flow...

New cars use either a mass airflow sensor (MAF) or a Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor (MAP). (Well some use both but it's rare).


Ours uses a MAP sensor and calculates the proper timing & air/fuel ratio based on a Speed Density calculation...


Speed density systems calculate the density of the air first by measuring the temperature of the inlet air and manifold pressure.


With the density of air known the engine controller then looks up how much air it expects to be moving at a specific engine speed and manifold pressure.


This is done in the Volumetric Efficiency table or VE table. Traditionally the VE table is 3D and has two axes Engine Speed (RPM) and Manifold Pressure or % Load.


This is why (for our vehicle) a larger Air intake (and/or better flowing filter) does little for performance. The IAT doesn't change so the timing is still based on the EXPECTED amount of air flow coming in based on that table.

Again, this has nothing to do with letting the computer get used to it or adjust for it over time.... It doesn't "see" the extra air so it has nothing to adjust.

A TRUE CAI (truly colder air.... Colder AND more air is even better) would help, but most "CAI" still pull in hot air from the engine bay.

I believe the Volant is sealed from engine heat correct? So in theory it should help, I don't pretend to know for sure, but saying they all help would be a bit presumptuous...

The bottom line key is more the air temp than the amount of air...

One brand CAI that helps a lot on A MAF system may do nothing on ours...

With all that said....... UNLESS you also get a tune that changes that table to accommodate the increased air flow...

Get it tuned and you can toss all I said out the window though still MORE AND COLDER air is still going to be the best...
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Old 03-19-2015, 08:28 AM
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Question Re: Pro tip from a Dyno guy & Volant CAI install

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel454 View Post
A TRUE CAI (truly colder air.... Colder AND more air is even better) would help, but most "CAI" still pull in hot air from the engine bay.

I believe the Volant is sealed from engine heat correct? So in theory it should help, I don't pretend to know for sure, but saying they all help would be a bit presumptuous...

The bottom line key is more the air temp than the amount of air...

One brand CAI that helps a lot on A MAF system may do nothing on ours...

With all that said....... UNLESS you also get a tune that changes that table to accommodate the increased air flow...

Get it tuned and you can toss all I said out the window though still MORE AND COLDER air is still going to be the best...
So are you saying that once the Jeep is moving the air at the filter location is still much more hot than the air outside the Jeep? I could see it at idle but I'm not sure I buy the idea once moving.
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Old 03-19-2015, 09:00 AM
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Re: Pro tip from a Dyno guy & Volant CAI install

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckeyeSRT View Post
So are you saying that once the Jeep is moving the air at the filter location is still much more hot than the air outside the Jeep? I could see it at idle but I'm not sure I buy the idea once moving.
Yes.

On my 2012, I recorded an IAT temp of 8- 12 degrees above ambient, while moving, without removing the small block off plate, and a 4-8 degree variance with it removed.

That was even at a speed as high as 75MPH.

When I stopped, that shot up to 30+ degrees in less than 5 minutes!

What I don't know is how quickly the computer adjusts for the IAT temp. Since typically without a "CAI" it wouldn't see that large of a variance I believe it would not be programmed to make adjustments that quickly.

So at best you lose the power right off the line, at worse it could take 5 - 10 minutes before power is restored.

Again though, even at the driving temp around 8 degrees higher, the system doesn't recognize MORE air, so it assumes its the same amount but a higher temp so even with a low variance, it definitely isn't helping and likely hurting even if just a small amount.

Just in case anyone was wondering, the small block off plate I am referring to removing is:



That definitely helps, just not enough.
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Old 03-19-2015, 09:08 AM
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Re: Pro tip from a Dyno guy & Volant CAI install

I should note, that CAI I used has NO heat shield. I am sure those help. And my testing was nothing fancy, just curiosity and a quick check over a couple days during varied temps. Nothing scientific.

The day was also in the low 90s so it is possible the variance is more a % of the ambient temp more so than an actual number.

On the other hand, I did have a 180 degree TStat installed so the engine was a good 20 - 25 degrees cooler than normal original run temp too.

Bottom line, your mileage may vary. I just wanted to shed some light on how our vehicle operates versus the GMs referenced above.

Its just not as simple as it is with some vehicle manufacturers nor are the results what they were 10 - 15 years ago.

You CAN gain power with a CAI, either by getting one that truly pulls in LOTS of COLD AIR and/or by getting it tuned to recognize the increased volume of air.
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Old 03-20-2015, 05:14 PM
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Re: Pro tip from a Dyno guy & Volant CAI install

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel454 View Post
Yes.

On my 2012, I recorded an IAT temp of 8- 12 degrees above ambient, while moving, without removing the small block off plate, and a 4-8 degree variance with it removed.

That was even at a speed as high as 75MPH.

When I stopped, that shot up to 30+ degrees in less than 5 minutes!.
Even with your air filter out of the engine bay, once you stop moving the under hood temps climb and soak into the intake. That alone could give you the 30 degree spike.
How much Of a difference does the ten degree increase over ambient cost you as far as power goes?
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Old 03-20-2015, 05:22 PM
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Pro tip from a Dyno guy & Volant CAI install

I wouldn't think the filter down in the wheel well would see an increase from heat in the engine compartment, too far removed and heat rises.... But I don't have one of those to test that.

I wouldn't think 5-10 degrees would LOSE you much though the point I was really trying to make was more that you don't GAIN anything...

(Without colder air and/or a tune).

Of course this is speaking to a true performance gain... The gain in sound and tone is totally worth it in my book. :-)
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