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  #37  
Old 03-11-2014, 04:26 PM
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Re: Supercharger for 3.6 V6 in development

What pieces of the factory warranty could be voided by installing the supercharger?
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  #38  
Old 03-11-2014, 04:36 PM
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Re: Supercharger for 3.6 V6 in development

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Originally Posted by SRT69 View Post
Since our Jeeps are only intended to handle the power that they have from the factory, adding the extra power of a supercharger could put your engine and drivetrain warranty in jeopardy.
Thanks, I was just watching a video RIPP did of a Wrangler JK supercharger installation - sounds pretty inspiring to me. I will definitely be checking into this more, thanks for the feedback.
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  #39  
Old 03-11-2014, 04:37 PM
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Re: Supercharger for 3.6 V6 in development

I'm pretty anxious for this kit to be released!
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  #40  
Old 03-11-2014, 05:01 PM
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You can kiss your warranty goodbye! The v6 tranny is only marginally stronger than the motor and will be the first thing to fail if left stock. If the blower is a positive displacement type (roots blower) then the low end torque gains will be huge and the tranny will last about 1/4 mile.

If its a centrifugal type (procharger style) then it will build boost more like a turbo and *may* be better on the tranny.

Beefing up the tranny will be required if its anything more than a modest gain. Also, real forced induction motors are purpose built. They have lower static compression and beefed up bottom ends. Adding a supercharger can lead to real issues with detonation, high cylinder head temps, blown head gaskets, head bolts stretching, main bearing and crank failure....research it. There's a lot of info in the subject.

I'm all for it....when done right!
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  #41  
Old 03-11-2014, 05:16 PM
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Re: Supercharger for 3.6 V6 in development

agreed with having to be done right and that one cannot simply bolt on a supercharger on an N/A ENGINE and expect reliability without inner engine re-works for compression.

However, trying to portray the power train on the 3.6 V6 as fragile is not true. But fine, I rest assured that given its fragility, it is over-engineered in all other respects: suspension, brakes etc. Or maybe it is properly matched to other drivetrain components and it is your mighty mega fuel efficient diesel that has all of its components, apart from transmission , under-engineered for how capable the engine really is.
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:00 PM
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Most manufacturers match drive line components in ratings. The larger ZF 8 speed used for the Hemi, Diesel, and SRT is beefier but not "over engineered" any more than the v6's drive line...its matched.

What I said would hold true for the Hemi as well if supercharged. Supercharging, depending on the method, can turn the v6 Pentastar into a torque monster! That's great...but I fear the lighter duty ZF won't hold it any more than the larger ZF would survive behind a supercharged Hemi.

Sorry if I sounded like the v6 isn't well built...it is. I think the motor can take more than the tranny....time will tell.
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  #43  
Old 03-11-2014, 06:13 PM
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I personally would do some tranny upgrading if available with a supercharger install. But that's me. I'm sure the stock unit can handle a few pounds of boost. Although boost from a turbo, centrifugal, roots and positive displacement act differently and cause stresses as different times and rates.

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  #44  
Old 03-11-2014, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scjeep4.7HO View Post
I personally would do some tranny upgrading if available with a supercharger install. But that's me. I'm sure the stock unit can handle a few pounds of boost. Although boost from a turbo, centrifugal, roots and positive displacement act differently and cause stresses as different times and rates. Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk
Check out the other thread from RIPP.. In the process of testing the Boost on the SRT and a little info on the other kits

RIPP Superchargers 2012-2014 SRT Stage 1 Testing results
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  #45  
Old 03-12-2014, 06:36 AM
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Re: Supercharger for 3.6 V6 in development

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExcursionDiesel View Post
Most manufacturers match drive line components in ratings. The larger ZF 8 speed used for the Hemi, Diesel, and SRT is beefier but not "over engineered" any more than the v6's drive line...its matched.

What I said would hold true for the Hemi as well if supercharged. Supercharging, depending on the method, can turn the v6 Pentastar into a torque monster! That's great...but I fear the lighter duty ZF won't hold it any more than the larger ZF would survive behind a supercharged Hemi.

Sorry if I sounded like the v6 isn't well built...it is. I think the motor can take more than the tranny....time will tell.
You know, I agree with you. It makes sense in theory and it makes sense in practice. But then again, in practice hings are different from theory and my experience with Subaru dictates otherwise.

The 2005 Subaru Legacy GT (5 speed manual or 5 speed auto) came rated 250 hp / 250 lb-ft at the crank which translated into about 190-200 whp and 210-220 wlb-ft at the wheels. The vast majority of enthusiasts go Stage II which means stock turbo, exhaust mods (up-pipe, down-pipe), custom tune. That in itself is a massive power gain.

My own numbers when I went Stage II were 250 whp and 300 lb-ft. And that was in 2008. It is the dyno graph from P&L Motorsports. I will admit, within a year I needed a new clutch but that is because I went to the racetrack; gas was cheap and I enjoyed AWD starts. I know plenty of people on stock clucthes. That was the weak link in the drivetrain.

But over the years I added a better turbo, Mitsubishi EVO 16G, a fuel pump, an electronic boost controller, an intercooler. I went once more on the dyno, just before I sold my Cobb Accessport (the tuning programmer) as Open Source (RomRaider/OpenECU) tuning was becoming more evolved and I still needed some adjustments. My last known numbers were 278 whp and 323 lb-ft at the wheels and the dyno graph was probably in the folder with the Cobb Accessport which I deleted years ago. I still have those mods on the car and I still drive it, aggressively at times. It's been in this state of power for 36,000 smiles. I went Stage 2 a 21,000 miles. I went Stage 3 (the turbo upgrade) at 69,000 miles. I have 106,000 miles on the car now.

I attached a graph with identical mods: BNR 16G (for Legacy, there are just a handful of popular turbos Mitsubishi EVO16G, Subaru Impreza's VF-52, 18G) TMIC (Top Mounted Inter Cooler, the choice is either a Perrin unit or an AVO unit, same size, most people in USA have a Perrin) Pump (Walbro 255 no exceptions, later Deutshwerks and STI pumps become popular) up-pipe; down-pipe. There's still power left for me to get (replace injectors, new tune) but I am done with modifying the Legacy, I am in long term support mode. And in case you are wondering why my numbers are lower, well I am running peak boost 19 psi; most people on this setup go 21 psi. I wanted reliability, not squeezing every "torque" out of the engine.

For all the calculations back to engine values, use 0.25% for drivetrain losses.

So...at my current power levels I would be destroying the light duty 8 Speed ZF. And I should have grenaded my transmission with the nearly 50% power improvement long ago. So, while I agree with the fact that something might give up following the addition of a supercharger to the Jeep, I think the drivetrain will take it. By the way, 5 speed auto Subaru gearboxes take the abuse much better than the 5 speed manual, and are known to last up to about 400 lb-ft at the wheels when a valve body is needed.

The last point I want to make is that the supercharger might not necessarily add that much top power, though it will, no doubt. But if you look at the dyno graphs (the colored one) which shows the difference between two turbos, for most people it will be enough if the supercharger can shift the power/torque curves to the left ensuring availability of stock power of 290 hp/260 lb-ft from 2500-5500 and tapering at the high end. It is the area under the curve that makes most difference, not the outright values. Even looking at my obsolete dyno, look at how much wheel torque I had available from 3000 rpm to 6000 rpm. You know that was fun to drive.

According to the ZF brochure, the lighter duty ZF 8HP45 is good for about 450 N-m torque. Assuming 85-90% efficiency (10-15% drivetrain losses), the V6 Jeep should have around 220 - 235 lb/ft at the wheels. On the other hand, 260 lb-ft of torque is about 350 N-m so, on paper there is about 100 N-m or 70 lb-ft of torque to be reclaimed by the Supercharger and still keep it within the scope of the light duty transmission. I think it is not only possible to add 70 lb-ft to the truck using a supercharger, but it is possible to make this power increase available over much of the power band.

I am looking forward to this product.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2005.Subaru.Legacy.GT.dyno_Mon.12.May.2008__Large_.jpg (84.9 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg IHI VF40 vs BNR 16G dyno graph.jpg (164.4 KB, 19 views)
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  #46  
Old 03-12-2014, 11:22 AM
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Re: Supercharger for 3.6 V6 in development

shot a email out to rippmods mainly because i live 2 miles from them apparently. Hope they would look at my 2014 Durango R/T
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  #47  
Old 03-12-2014, 01:05 PM
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I hope the ZF is like your Subaru and can take the punishment. The early adopters will pay the price to find out. There are examples of stock tranny designs that die at normal usage levels and others that live at twice their rating. In the absence of any testing, we have no way of knowing. We'll soon see.

I hope you are correct. My diesel has a tuner and is right at the 700nm capacity today.
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Old 03-12-2014, 01:24 PM
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Re: Supercharger for 3.6 V6 in development

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Originally Posted by ExcursionDiesel View Post
I hope the ZF is like your Subaru and can take the punishment. The early adopters will pay the price to find out. There are examples of stock tranny designs that die at normal usage levels and others that live at twice their rating. In the absence of any testing, we have no way of knowing. We'll soon see.

I hope you are correct. My diesel has a tuner and is right at the 700nm capacity today.
the only good thing is the ZF in the v8 is actually made by ZF

Driving my 2014 Durango R/T over to Ripp tomorrow.
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