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Trans oil change?

67K views 77 replies 28 participants last post by  jgcrp1 
#1 ·
I have about 37k miles. I have been searching here with no luck. Should i do a trans oil change? What do u guys recommend? Should i do this a the dealership? Or try it out myself? Would I need to change the trans oil filter too?

Thanks


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#2 ·
What year? The 14's+ are sealed for life and are supposed to be maintenance free. If you don't have a sealed unit there's nothing wrong with swapping the filter and 4 or 5qts in your driveway but that's pretty low milegage to be thinking about it. I'd say diffs and transfer case would be before the trans.
 
#3 ·
theres been quite a bit of debate here and elsewhere on that topic...quite a few youtube vids on the process if you're so inclined. the pan/filter are several hundred bucks.

"lifetime" trans fluid doesn't necessarily mean lifetime, it just means "out of warranty".

No mechanical component lasts a lifetime. Metal wears, synthetic lubricants break down, and filters fill up. I will be changing mine at 40k.
 
#4 · (Edited)
For the 8 speed, in Australia they are recommending fluid change at 100,000kms/60,000miles. I'd be taking it to a ZF transmission specialist.

An interesting youtube clip, 47 mins in is looking at the condition of the filter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI6D1xUOEKQ
 
#5 ·
Subscribed.
 
#6 ·
Glad I read this thread. I'm too new to this to know about the trans and that's what the stealership told me.

In the NAG1 it was cheap and super easy to change the stuff out and a nice earls 19 row dropped the trans temps like mad. Anyone know if this trans benefits in the same manner?
 
#7 ·
I found this on another Jeep site. It seems the V6 guys got the short end of the corporate pokey stick here

".the ZF tranny that comes in V6 equipped rigs has the 845RE version of the 8 spd tranny, V8's get the 8HP70 version. The difference being that the V8's ZF 8HP70 is made in Germany by ZF, whereas, the V6's ZF 845RE is made by Chrysler "under license" from ZF. There seem to be issues like this with the V6/Chrysler manufactured unit and nothing to speak of coming from the V8/ZF sourced units other than programming break-in. It was one of the reasons I opted for the Hemi."
 
#10 · (Edited)
I have about 37k miles. I have been searching here with no luck. Should i do a trans oil change? What do u guys recommend? Should i do this a the dealership? Or try it out myself? Would I need to change the trans oil filter too?
What's going to scare you off on anything involving servicing this transmission, (ZF 8-Speed), is cost. First off is the cost of the fluid. You can only purchase it at Chrysler dealerships and it costs $40.00 A QUART, and it requires 10 QUARTS.

Next is the "filter". It is part of the transmission oil pan. In order to change out the filter you have to replace the entire oil pan / filter combo. Cost?....... $270.00+. So, in just parts and fluid you're looking at over $670.00. That is providing you do it yourself. If not you have to add labor at $90.00+ per hour. Bottom line, it's going to cost you as much or more to service this thing, than it will to rebuild most older automatic transmissions.

Also, if you use ANY other fluid other than factory recommended fluid, it will void your warranty. Chrysler has got us by the balls. At least until someone produces a cheaper fluid and filter combo that doesn't take a second mortgage to buy.

As silly as this sounds, you're better off buying the Lifetime Max Care Warranty, and just drive it until it fails. And just hope it does so walking distance from your house or dealer, and not when you're towing your boat or R.V. on vacation.
 
#11 ·
What's going to scare you off on anything involving servicing this transmission, (ZF 8-Speed), is cost. First off is the cost of the fluid. You can only purchase it at Chrysler dealerships and it costs $40.00 A QUART, and it requires 10 quarts.

Next is the "filter". It is part of the transmission oil pan. In order to change out the filter you have to replace the entire oil pan / filter combo. Cost?....... $270.00+. So, in just parts and fluid you're looking at over $670.00. That is providing you do it yourself. If not you have to add labor at $90.00+ per hour. Bottom line, it's going to cost you as much or more to service this thing, than it will to rebuild most older automatic transmissions.

Also, if you use ANY other fluid other than factory recommended fluid, it will void your warranty. Chrysler has got us by the balls, at least until someone produces a cheaper fluid and filter combo that doesn't take a second mortgage to buy.

As silly as this sounds, you're better off buying the Lifetime Max Care Warranty, and just drive it until it fails. And just hope it does so walking distance from your house or dealer, and not when you're towing your boat or R.V. on vacation.
I agree with you, i have always been an avid changer of trans fluid prior to this vehicle but if you do 30-40k changes on this one by 150k you have about paid the price of a new transmission in fluid change cost which is rediculous. They say it is fill for life with no recommended change interval, so follow the manual dont change it and let maxcare cover it if fails because we would be following the recommended maintenance right lol. In reality i may just do 1 change around the 80k mark, if i remember right i think that is where they recommend on the australian maintenance schedule which is the same trans not sure why they have a different maintenance schedule. Previous cars $75 for a drain and fill every 30k in my driveway was easy and cheap, times change.
I think this depends a lot on how long someone plans to keep the jeep, if you keep less than 100k just leave it who cares and dont change, if you plan on keeping for the long haul way in excess of 100k than 1 change may be a good idea. Just my opinion
 
#16 ·
With all the components necessary that they show, you're looking at $284.70. Add to that the "reduced cost" fluid at $22.90 a quart X 10 quarts, and you're looking at a grand total of $284.70 + 10 quarts of fluid at $229.00 = $513.00 for a single transmission service. And that is not including shipping, and it requires you do all the work yourself.

No matter how you look at it, the cost involved to do a simple fluid and filter change with this transmission is completely insane.
 
#17 ·
If the manual says not to worry about it, then there you have it folks...don't worry about it. No reason to complicate life by worrying about doing an unnecessary 530 dollar fluid change. Plus, chances are the Jeep will be totaled by then, or in a junk yard due to age, or on its 7th owner before a failure due to fluid would occur.
 
#18 ·
Thanks for all the expert opinions. Amsoil has fluid meeting ZF/Chrysler's requirement of Shell ML 12108 for $50/gallon (http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g3110.pdf). Just need to replace the pan filter once after the initial break-in. It's been shown there are significant metal shavings caught by the magnets and filters during this period, but not so much afterwards. Hence, future service of the trans is just the cost of the fluid. Yeah, some of us keep our vehicles.


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#19 · (Edited)
Yes

I am going to change the fluid and panat around 40K.

Have spoken to my pal at the dealer and we will throw the jeep on the lift and open the drain hole in the pan and leave over the weekend to see how much comes out. Will measure. Then drop the pan and see how much comes out with the pan drop Then see how much can initially added, then go thru the process to get the fluid up to temp to get to the correct level and compare that amount to the total that initially came out and then what came out when the pan/filter was removed.

I can then judge and down the road and simply drain x out and replenish periodically without changing the filter/pan.

The issue with these tranmissions there is no dipstick, so one must go 1 for 1 for any fluid removed.

I also assume as time goes by the cost of the fluid will trend lower. I will use the ZF fluid since I have the lifetime warranty.
 
#20 ·
Yes

I am going to change the fluid and panat around 40K.

Have spoken to my pal at the dealer and we will throw the jeep on the lift and open the drain hole in the pan and leave over the weekend to see how much comes out. Will measure. Then drop the pan and see how much comes out with the pan drop Then see how much can initially added, then go thru the process to get the fluid up to temp to get to the correct level and compare that amount to the total that initially came out and then what came out when the pan/filter was removed.

I can then judge and down the road and simply drain x out and replenish periodically without changing the filter/pan.

The issue with these tranmissions there is no dipstick, so one must go 1 for 1 for any fluid removed.

I also assume as time goes by the cost of the fluid will trend lower. I will use the ZF fluid since I have the lifetime warranty.
The only thing that concerns me about that type of servicing is the drain plug. It makes a horrible sound as it's being removed. I'm not sure if it's designed to be removed and replaced like most other drain plugs are. The entire pan is designed to be "disposable".

This video shows a detailed look at servicing one of these transmissions. You can watch and hear him removing the drain plug at 14:10 in the video. Everything involved with it is a royal pain in the ass. It is very temperature critical on fluid. There is no dipstick, so it's difficult if not impossible to check the fluid level. The whole bottom pan is plastic. I love the performance of this transmission. But the guy who designed it's serviceability should be stood up against a wall and shot without a blindfold. It's to the point of being totally ridiculous, from both a cost and mechanical standpoint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI6D1xUOEKQ
 
#21 · (Edited)
That is why I am curious if one simply removed the plug, drained all the fluid out and then refilled if one can get the same amount back in without it pouring out of the pan fill/drain plug.

I will change the pan the first time and determine what issues one might have with the plug, will ask my pal. he has done a few of the ZF 9spd in the cherokees to replace valve bodies but has told me the zf 8spd are bullet proof, no issues, he has never had to open one up and this dealer sells a lot of trucks and Grands.

per the design, that is the German way, make everything ultra complex LOL
 
#22 ·
looks like it is actually cheaper to buy this zf-lifeguard8 by the case which takes it down to $17.46 per bottle. still expensive but a little better than the $40+ per bottle the dealers want for it. Best I have seen on the 68225344AA pan/filter is $227. definitely an expensive fluid change.

I don't believe in fill for life fluids. one of my past vehicles had a "fill for life transmission" It had a 5 year 60000 mile powertrain warranty on it. massive transmission failures began to happen on many of those vehicles around 70k and up. upon closer examination it was found that sticky solenoids were to blame in the valve body and they were sticky due to fouled transmission fluid, imagine that. lots of angry owners as many of the failures were just out side of the 60k powertrain warranty. mine never failed as I had drained and filled the trans fluid a couple times on my own which was only about $75.

Now that said this trans has a ridiculous trans service cost, around $1000 for the dealer to do it. Just my opinion but If I planned to keep this vehicle less than 100k miles I would not service this transmission at all, the pan has a good filter and magnet setup and will likely get there just fine, its the 100k+ that needs to be considered. But since this vehicle will be kept for the long term and be in the 200k+ mile high club I will probably do service one time around 80k for the do it yourself $450. The other line of thinking is since it is "fill for life" and specifically goes as far as to say trans fluid changes are not necessary, then don't change it at all and when it fails maxcare life time can take care of it, as you would be following the recommended maintenance by not changing it, that's assuming normal non extreme use. guess ill see what mode I am in around 80k lol


ZF LifeGuard 8 - Case of 12 x 1L Container

Mopar TRANS PAN - 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee - 68225344AA
 
#24 ·
#27 ·
Has anyone looked at the physical side of removing the pan/filter from their Jeep?

I looked at this in October and found that the front edge near the engine interface is blocked by a cross member. I wasn't able to get a 1/4" drive with socket in there to remove the bolts. I tried a gear wrench with a torx bit but the cross member is in the way.
 
#29 ·
I just crawled under and looked myself. Yeah, it looks pretty tight. I wasn't able to take the sound deadening material off to get a good look. Guess I'll find out next weekend.

oh ok sounds good, so part number we need for the GCs is 68225344AA, so we are stuck with the expensive one. so $227 for that and $17.46 a bottle for the fluid if you buy the case.
That's what it looks like. Everything I pulled up on Mopar's part search only mentioned the 8HP45 with this filter. I could be wrong... only taking a semi educated guess here.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Okay, fluid and filter changed. Front 4 bolts are a PITA thanks to the crossmember just below them. I torched and bent a T45 L-key wrench to about 22 degrees. 45 degrees would have been too much and hit the crossmember.

Glad I did change it. Magnets were covered in in metallic sludge (see pics). Fluid was very dark too.

It's amazing how much smoother everything is shifting now. I just thought the last TSB made things worse.

Thanks for everyone's input. It wasn't too bad of a job. Took roughly 3 hours... with most of that for drain time. BTW... This was at 25k miles.

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#33 · (Edited)
How did you approach it, did you drain and measure exactly how much came out?

Also refilling how much could you pump back in before starting it to add the balance.

Watching the video of the Diesel Ram, the guy could of measured how much came out, claimed about 5 qts and it looked when he initially filled it, he poured 1 qt of Lucas into the pan and pumped another 2 qts of Amsoil Signature for total of 3 qts before it started coming out of the filler hole. He indicated he would top off doing the Factory procedure. I would use the Lifeguard 8 for warranty.

I would rather just do 1 for 1 knowing how much drained and then double check using the factory procedure but unclear when refilling wether one can simply pump the full amount into the trans with the engine off or wether your forced to puch some of the fluid forward into the rest of the trans with the engine running to finish the top off.

Can you provide details?

Thanks for the pics!

OH can one reinstall the drain plug into the pan if they want to do drain and fills and change some fluid without changing the pan?
 
#34 ·
If was approximately 5 quarts that came out. I followed the same procedures that ramecodiesel showed in his video. I got roughly 3 quarts in with the engine off before it started to weep out of the fill hole. Then I started the engine, placed it in drive for 5 seconds, then reverse for 5 seconds and park. Then I pumped the remaining fluid in with the engine running. Fluid just started to weep out again as I finished pumping in the last of the fluid. When I do it next time, I'll be sure to have 6 quarts on hand just to be safe. 5 quarts just got me there with nothing left.


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#35 ·
"OH can one reinstall the drain plug into the pan if they want to do drain and fills and change some fluid without changing the pan?"

I played around with my old pan and plug to check this myself. It is possible, but I would suggest having a spare on hand if you try this. The entire pan and drain plug is plastic. As I tightened the old drain plug back into the old pan by hand, the slot for the Allen key broke. This would make removing it to drain again very difficult. It was secure and probably wouldn't have leaked, but you just never know. If you attempt this, my advice would be to follow the torque requirements very strictly to ensure you don't break the plug. I do not believe it was designed to be reused and felt a little brittle, probably from the heat cycles. However, that is pure speculation on my part.


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#36 ·
I changed the filter and fluid today on my transmission at 47K miles.
I bought a Wiha T40 L-wrench bent it like suggested earlier in this thread. The job was about 3 hours with the biggest pita being the front 4 bolts. I recommend treating the new bolt with anti-seize. I saw corrosion on most of them that could prevent easy removal in the future or cause thread damage in the case. I have the factory fiber shield installed.
 
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