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  #13  
Old 02-19-2016, 07:56 PM
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Re: 2014 GC ELSD Fluid Black

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Originally Posted by beepbeepimajeep View Post
Stupid question. For ps fluid does that need to be bled for air bubbles?
See evil twins diy ps flush in the diy section, has pics.

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  #14  
Old 02-20-2016, 08:45 AM
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Re: 2014 GC ELSD Fluid Black

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Originally Posted by silvermax04 View Post
Anyway I used the OEM ZF ELSD fluids as required per the manual, fluids are clear when new. front differential fluid looked new, transfer case fluid looked new and the rear ELSD fluid was black. As with any oils black doesn't necessarily mean fouled fluid but it still surprised me a bit at only 30k miles. I have changed several diff fluids in my time and never really seen it that dark before even much later in mileage. so I waited another 2k miles and changed it again today and again it came out black. so now I'm wondering if the clutch packs are operating properly in the ELSD. It drives fine and I don't tow or drive like a maniac. Has anyone else noticed or experienced this?
Yep, mine was the same. It's completely normal. Especially when you consider the heavy assembly lube left on the R&P from the factory. The clutches in the diff wear nearly continuously. Unless you live in Florida or Nebraska Any time one wheel moves slower than the other (curves, turns, donuts) the packs wear. It will get a little better with regular service.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beepbeepimajeep View Post
Stupid question. For ps fluid does that need to be bled for air bubbles?
Nope. the pump will do that for you. The fluid circulates, like the engine oil does. It isn't a stagnant hydraulic system like brakes. Turning the wheel lock-to-lock to expedite the process.
Also, don't fill it to the FULL mark if it's fairly cold. Fill it to the low mark and drive until the engine oil reaches operating temp. Then check it again. The expansion of the fluid should be taken into consideration. Mine is in the middle when cold but at the top mark when hot.
*the engine oil temp has no correlation to PS fluid temp but is indicative of how long it takes to fully warm up your fluids.
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  #15  
Old 02-20-2016, 01:02 PM
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Re: 2014 GC ELSD Fluid Black

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Originally Posted by The Evil Twin View Post
Yep, mine was the same. It's completely normal. Especially when you consider the heavy assembly lube left on the R&P from the factory. The clutches in the diff wear nearly continuously. Unless you live in Florida or Nebraska Any time one wheel moves slower than the other (curves, turns, donuts) the packs wear. It will get a little better with regular service..
So why is the front still clear wouldn't they use assembly lube on that one also. are the elsd clutch packs tearing up the fluid faster than a non elsd would? and would that necessitate elsd needing changed more frequently than non elsd? or is the unnaturally black color in this case not related at all to fluid condition. motor oil can be black and still be fine but once its jet black and viscosity different wel you start to think time to change. can a blackstone analysis be done on gear oil or is that only motor oil they do that?
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Old 02-20-2016, 05:05 PM
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Re: 2014 GC ELSD Fluid Black

Blackstone can analyze gear oils.

Might want to talk to them and ask what kind of tests they can run for the analysis.

BITOG forum has section on gear oil test results.
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Old 02-20-2016, 06:32 PM
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Re: 2014 GC ELSD Fluid Black

Sometimes being an elsd can turn fluid darker than if it is a normal gear


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Old 02-21-2016, 11:36 AM
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Re: 2014 GC ELSD Fluid Black

Quote:
Originally Posted by silvermax04 View Post
So why is the front still clear wouldn't they use assembly lube on that one also. are the elsd clutch packs tearing up the fluid faster than a non elsd would? and would that necessitate elsd needing changed more frequently than non elsd? or is the unnaturally black color in this case not related at all to fluid condition. motor oil can be black and still be fine but once its jet black and viscosity different wel you start to think time to change. can a blackstone analysis be done on gear oil or is that only motor oil they do that?
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that the front did not. Just that when you add that, friction modifier and the clutch wear to the mix it is not surprising that it is much darker.
Color doesn't really tell you much. Debris from the clutch plates will make it look "worse" than it is. The wear is not something to be concerned with, since that is supposed to happen. Blackstone will be able to tell you the condition of gear oil
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  #19  
Old 02-21-2016, 12:06 PM
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Re: 2014 GC ELSD Fluid Black

Quote:
Originally Posted by silvermax04 View Post
So why is the front still clear wouldn't they use assembly lube on that one also. are the elsd clutch packs tearing up the fluid faster than a non elsd would? and would that necessitate elsd needing changed more frequently than non elsd? or is the unnaturally black color in this case not related at all to fluid condition. motor oil can be black and still be fine but once its jet black and viscosity different wel you start to think time to change. can a blackstone analysis be done on gear oil or is that only motor oil they do that?
Any enclosed case that contains clutch material like our ELSD or a motorcycle clutch case will always go dark from the clutch material grinding away from use. The more the clutches are engaged the more debris in the oil to discolor it. The rear ELSD will always be more active on that front.

You say you don't drive like a maniac but the important metric is the amount your ELSD uses the clutches. The more slippery conditions, ie ELSD clutches grinding clutch surfaces, the darker the fluid....in general. Two exact rigs, one driven in slippery northern winters, mud, etc... and the other a southern one mostly in dry great traction conditions, will have very different ELSD fluid colors, in general....this assumes the southern rig is not towing a boat.
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  #20  
Old 02-21-2016, 12:12 PM
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Re: 2014 GC ELSD Fluid Black

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Evil Twin View Post
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that the front did not. Just that when you add that, friction modifier and the clutch wear to the mix it is not surprising that it is much darker.
Color doesn't really tell you much. Debris from the clutch plates will make it look "worse" than it is. The wear is not something to be concerned with, since that is supposed to happen. Blackstone will be able to tell you the condition of gear oil
Sounds good as long as its normal, was just the first time I saw diff fluid that dark this early. thanks
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Old 02-21-2016, 12:17 PM
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Re: 2014 GC ELSD Fluid Black

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoPlzGo View Post
Any enclosed case that contains clutch material like our ELSD or a motorcycle clutch case will always go dark from the clutch material grinding away from use. The more the clutches are engaged the more debris in the oil to discolor it. The rear ELSD will always be more active on that front.

You say you don't drive like a maniac but the important metric is the amount your ELSD uses the clutches. The more slippery conditions, ie ELSD clutches grinding clutch surfaces, the darker the fluid....in general. Two exact rigs, one driven in slippery northern winters, mud, etc... and the other a southern one mostly in dry great traction conditions, will have very different ELSD fluid colors, in general....this assumes the southern rig is not towing a boat.
So with an active ELSD environment how much more often would that equate to changing the rear ELSD fluid than the front non elsd fluid? I have changed many a diff fluid but my first time dealing with ELSD
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Old 02-21-2016, 12:37 PM
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Re: 2014 GC ELSD Fluid Black

Quote:
Originally Posted by silvermax04 View Post
So with an active ELSD environment how much more often would that equate to changing the rear ELSD fluid than the front non elsd fluid? I have changed many a diff fluid but my first time dealing with ELSD
I always follow severe duty schedules as I drive my vehicles harder than average, operate them in all climates with big temp swings, many short trips, etc...sooo, I think the manual says every 20 inspect/replace front/rear with no severe schedule for diffs so maybe for you every 20k ish for rear and 40k for front until front "speaks" to you for a severe schedule.

I am an Amsoil snob and their GL-5 rated Severe Gear 75W-90 Synthetic EP Lub is only $11/qt, use in both diffs, vs the Mopar $35-50/qt "gold" so it is easier for me to be very generous with diff fluids.
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  #23  
Old 02-21-2016, 12:55 PM
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Re: 2014 GC ELSD Fluid Black

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoPlzGo View Post
I always follow severe duty schedules as I drive my vehicles harder than average, operate them in all climates with big temp swings, many short trips, etc...sooo, I think the manual says every 20 inspect/replace front/rear with no severe schedule for diffs so maybe for you every 20k ish for rear and 40k for front until front "speaks" to you for a severe schedule.

I am an Amsoil snob and their GL-5 rated Severe Gear 75W-90 Synthetic EP Lub is only $11/qt, use in both diffs, vs the Mopar $35-50/qt "gold" so it is easier for me to be very generous with diff fluids.
For trailer towing or taxi/police use they recommend a change every 20k. For non severe its just a check every 20k.

Given the ease it is to change these with the drain plugs ill probably do the rear at 30 and front well we will see. I already did the front, rear and Tcase once at 30 so I'm good for a while. The rear is an easy 10 minute job the front I got to drop skip plates for so a little more but still easy with the drain plugs they got on them.
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  #24  
Old 02-21-2016, 01:01 PM
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