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Old 02-18-2016, 06:45 PM
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2014 GC ELSD Fluid Black

Thought id pass this on to see if anyone else has noticed this. As I plan on keeping this jeep for the long term I changed the differentials and T case fluid at 30k on my 5.7L with ELSD. a bit early yes but it doesn't hurt to get breakin metals out and the ease that it is to change the fluid in the ZF differentials with these drain plugs makes it ultra quick and easy, even easier than changing motor oil.

Anyway I used the OEM ZF ELSD fluids as required per the manual, fluids are clear when new. front differential fluid looked new, transfer case fluid looked new and the rear ELSD fluid was black. As with any oils black doesn't necessarily mean fouled fluid but it still surprised me a bit at only 30k miles. I have changed several diff fluids in my time and never really seen it that dark before even much later in mileage. so I waited another 2k miles and changed it again today and again it came out black. so now I'm wondering if the clutch packs are operating properly in the ELSD. It drives fine and I don't tow or drive like a maniac. Has anyone else noticed or experienced this?

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Old 02-19-2016, 08:03 AM
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Re: 2014 GC ELSD Fluid Black

My 2015 GC Limited is my first Jeep. Prior to this, most of my personal experience, 40 years worth, has been with GM cars and trucks. Having said that, I'm big on maintenance, and consider changing the differential lube a regular maintenance thing. On one hand I might wind up keeping the vehicle for an extended time, on the other, I'm maintaining it for the next owner. Nonetheless, I regularly change the axle lube.

In my experience, I think that GM used some sort of moly based lubricant in assembling their rear axles, along with the normal gear oil. When the two mixed, it turned the oil dark grey/black. I would change the oil when my vehicles were a year old, and the lube was indeed black. Changing it a second time, the next year, showed it to be "less black, and after a third change, the oil stayed pretty much it's natural golden color, and at that point, I pretty much left it alone, for the duration of my ownership, unless I continued to own it for a longer period of time, in which case I might change it one more time.

Just my $0.02 worth.....
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Old 02-19-2016, 10:50 AM
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Re: 2014 GC ELSD Fluid Black

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Originally Posted by leadfoot4 View Post
My 2015 GC Limited is my first Jeep. Prior to this, most of my personal experience, 40 years worth, has been with GM cars and trucks. Having said that, I'm big on maintenance, and consider changing the differential lube a regular maintenance thing. On one hand I might wind up keeping the vehicle for an extended time, on the other, I'm maintaining it for the next owner. Nonetheless, I regularly change the axle lube.

In my experience, I think that GM used some sort of moly based lubricant in assembling their rear axles, along with the normal gear oil. When the two mixed, it turned the oil dark grey/black. I would change the oil when my vehicles were a year old, and the lube was indeed black. Changing it a second time, the next year, showed it to be "less black, and after a third change, the oil stayed pretty much it's natural golden color, and at that point, I pretty much left it alone, for the duration of my ownership, unless I continued to own it for a longer period of time, in which case I might change it one more time.

Just my $0.02 worth.....
Thanks that is a definite possibility. The thing that throws me a little is that the front diff fluid was still clear at 30k which is kinda what you would expect at 30k unless you are working it hard. maybe different assemble process on the rear ELSD involving what you suggested above. At $40 a quart for the ELSD fluid I wont be changing it again for a while so whatever it is, it is at this point unless it starts running bad. Im sure its probably fine, under normal use the diffs don't even have a recommended change interval at all and the Tcase is not until 120k. kudos again to ZF on those drain plugs they turned what used to be a mess of a process I used to dread in removing the old style diff covers to a beyond easy, messless 10 minute fluid change. now they just got to work on their fluid prices, stamp German on anything and the price goes up 5x.
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Old 02-19-2016, 11:48 AM
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Re: 2014 GC ELSD Fluid Black

I can certainly understand what you're saying, regarding the cost of the MoPar fluids. I also found the same thing, if I was to buy GM's syn diff oil, as the manual called out for my previous GMC Canyon.

After I was out of the warranty period with the Canyon, and the final time that I changed the diff and transfer case lube, I went with Amsoil, as it was more reasonably priced. I had no issues with it.

I bought the lifetime warranty on my GC, and I certainly don't want to create any issues with either the GC or the warranty, but I seriously wonder if an issue arose, the dealer could say that the brand of gear oil was the cause of the problem.

FWIW, both Amsoil and Red Line have a vehicle application chart on their websites, and both have recommendations for the differentials on the GC. The only variation in these charts is with transmission fluid, as Red Line doesn't offer a product that "cross references" to the MoPar tranny oil.
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Old 02-19-2016, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadfoot4 View Post
I can certainly understand what you're saying, regarding the cost of the MoPar fluids. I also found the same thing, if I was to buy GM's syn diff oil, as the manual called out for my previous GMC Canyon.

After I was out of the warranty period with the Canyon, and the final time that I changed the diff and transfer case lube, I went with Amsoil, as it was more reasonably priced. I had no issues with it.

I bought the lifetime warranty on my GC, and I certainly don't want to create any issues with either the GC or the warranty, but I seriously wonder if an issue arose, the dealer could say that the brand of gear oil was the cause of the problem.

FWIW, both Amsoil and Red Line have a vehicle application chart on their websites, and both have recommendations for the differentials on the GC. The only variation in these charts is with transmission fluid, as Red Line doesn't offer a product that "cross references" to the MoPar tranny oil.
As long as they meet the spec and same viscocity should be good i may try that. I have maxcare lifetime also and going to keep the jeep for the long term so i figure doing the first fluid changes a little early would be good for the long term. I saw a place on line that sells the ZF lifeguard 8 trans fluid for $17 which is a huge savings over the dealer $45. Now they just got to get that pan filter price down. Long way to go before a trans fluid change though.
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Old 02-19-2016, 01:30 PM
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Re: 2014 GC ELSD Fluid Black

I changed the diffs at 111 miles pic 1206 and again at 1600 miles pic at 1100 niles, used Redline 75W-90 GF5

Did the T-case at 200 and again at 1600. Refilled with Amsoil ATF

I always do early changes on diffs and t-cases, to much metal shedding.

Will do them again once it warms upm wife has about 10K on the Jeep now.

I do have the QD2 ELSD.

I have a 5 gallon pail of REdline 75W-90 GF5 I paid 75$ shipped to my door plus another pail of 75W-140.

I wouldnt want to leave all that metal circulating in the bearings and gears. Oil is cheap and these diffs are so easy to change fluid, it is criminal in my mind if you dont do it.

I have also sucked the fluid out of the PS system and repalced with Amsoil.
Will do that again in the spring.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Jeep Gearoil 1100miles2ndchange.jpg (45.9 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg JeepTcase1600miles2ndchange.jpg (73.2 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1206.jpg (110.5 KB, 8 views)
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Old 02-19-2016, 04:18 PM
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Re: 2014 GC ELSD Fluid Black

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Originally Posted by Turbozcs2003 View Post
I have also sucked the fluid out of the PS system and repalced with Amsoil.
Will do that again in the spring.
Stupid question. For ps fluid does that need to be bled for air bubbles?
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Old 02-19-2016, 04:44 PM
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Re: 2014 GC ELSD Fluid Black

Quote:
Originally Posted by silvermax04 View Post
....I saw a place on line that sells the ZF lifeguard 8 trans fluid for $17 which is a huge savings over the dealer $45. Now they just got to get that pan filter price down. Long way to go before a trans fluid change though.


I've always been diligent with transmission fluid and filter changes, too. However, the GC, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't have the usual dipstick, so you can't simply drop the pan and top off the fluid through the dipstick hole. If I understand the procedure correctly, you pump the new fluid through a "fill port" on the tranny case, warm the transmission, then continue to fill the transmission until the fluid starts to drip from the standpipe in the pan.... It's an ordeal.




Quote:
Originally Posted by beepbeepimajeep View Post
Stupid question. For ps fluid does that need to be bled for air bubbles?
Suck the old fluid out, the best you can, and refill the reservoir,. Lift the front of the vehicle with a floor jack, start the engine and turn the steering wheel lock-to-lock 2-3 times. Your system is bled.........
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Old 02-19-2016, 05:06 PM
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Re: 2014 GC ELSD Fluid Black

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbozcs2003 View Post
I changed the diffs at 111 miles pic 1206 and again at 1600 miles pic at 1100 niles, used Redline 75W-90 GF5

Did the T-case at 200 and again at 1600. Refilled with Amsoil ATF

I always do early changes on diffs and t-cases, to much metal shedding.

Will do them again once it warms upm wife has about 10K on the Jeep now.

I do have the QD2 ELSD.

I have a 5 gallon pail of REdline 75W-90 GF5 I paid 75$ shipped to my door plus another pail of 75W-140.

I wouldnt want to leave all that metal circulating in the bearings and gears. Oil is cheap and these diffs are so easy to change fluid, it is criminal in my mind if you dont do it.

I have also sucked the fluid out of the PS system and repalced with Amsoil.
Will do that again in the spring.
Changing the differentials 4 times in 10k miles is a pretty highly aggressive schedule. do you tow at limits everyday? I get doing the first change early if intending to keep the vehicle for the long term but that sounds a little over kill maybe? is there any reason you go with the redline 75W90 GL-5 instead of the manual recommended 75W85 GL-5 for front and rear? I know the 90 is only slightly thicker but just wondering?

so what are you going to do with ridiculous cost of the trans fluid changes on your highly severe duty schedule? Jeep recommends no change which to me is irresponsible if you intend to keep the jeep very long term. For 2016 ZF also recommends no change for normal driving on the 8HP70 but recommends a 50K-75K change for severe service. I will probably do a 75K change on that since you can get the lifeguard 8 for $17 a quart which is not the insanity of the $45 a quart I was previously seeing.

See your ELSD fluid looks like I would expect kinda golden, mine was jet black coming out
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Old 02-19-2016, 05:12 PM
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Re: 2014 GC ELSD Fluid Black

Quote:
Originally Posted by leadfoot4 View Post
I've always been diligent with transmission fluid and filter changes, too. However, the GC, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't have the usual dipstick, so you can't simply drop the pan and top off the fluid through the dipstick hole. If I understand the procedure correctly, you pump the new fluid through a "fill port" on the tranny case, warm the transmission, then continue to fill the transmission until the fluid starts to drip from the standpipe in the pan.... It's an ordeal.
Yes I was reading that crazy fill procedure in the service manual also, raising the car spinning the wheels all this stuff, very "driveway change" unfriendly. I was hoping someone on here who has a lot of experience with ZF would come up with an alternate driveway friendly fill method that would be acceptable. I have dropped a lot trans pans in my day but never worked on ZF before so I'm learning on this one.
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Old 02-19-2016, 06:43 PM
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Re: 2014 GC ELSD Fluid Black

I changed the diff fluids twice, at 111 miles and 1600, T case at 200 and 1600.

I do it because I dont want the wear metals. The fluids both times were full of pearl.

Guy on a oil forum, did samples on his Tacoma diffs at 2000 and 5000, both times told him to change it due to the metal contamination which is normal from break in.

Note my front diff was under filled, recall had 24 ounces and takes 38 ounces, so another reason to change it.

Will change it again once it warms up outside before I put the Jeep away for the summer, has about 10 k miles now. Then I will go every 25k or so.



Amsoil has a good white technical paper on this, basically change it a few times early on and then you can do normal drain schedule.



Per the viscosity of 75w-85 vs 75w-90 GF5, dont think it will make any difference, especially a good top rated GRP V synthetic gear oil like Redline. Have 5 gallons sitting in the basement. At 4$ per qt, I change it a few times.

I keep my vehichles a long time so I dont mind doing these things, spending 50k on a jeep, a couple of qts of gear oil isnt going to break the bank.

Per the PS, I used my fluid pump, disconnect the reservoir low pressure line and sucked out/purged whole system. Evil Twin has thread in the DIY section, DIY Power Steering Flush.

Go buy a batch of Corks to plug the reservoir and a outboard lower unit pump at walmart.
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Old 02-19-2016, 06:50 PM
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Re: 2014 GC ELSD Fluid Black

per the transmission, will probably buy a pan/filter and the fluid.

Sounds like about 5qts will do the basic drain, pan drop and refill.

There is a site for the fluid at 17$ a qt for ZF LG8 vs what the dealer parts dept wants.

Looking at the pans and the amount of metal sticking to the magents will probably do it next year around 20K or so

Will sucker me pals at the dealership as a favor, want to see exactly how to refill it and also measure how much comes out. My friend wants me to help him rust proof his Charger he is ordering, so will barter a rustproofing for a trans service. A few Sam Adams will be in order for each job.
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