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  #13  
Old 01-28-2015, 01:04 PM
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Re: Best snow driving techniques and modes

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Originally Posted by MAXGroup View Post
..
I take my overland wherever I want and it never let me down. Now my snow driving technique is simple - Don't laugh!
I go out of my drive way to the unplowed street and immediately put the pedal to the metal. This is my way of getting to feel the snow, as we all know every snow day is different. .
That's with the stock Latitudes?

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  #14  
Old 01-28-2015, 01:09 PM
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Re: Best snow driving techniques and modes

Good info, thanks
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  #15  
Old 01-28-2015, 02:20 PM
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Re: Best snow driving techniques and modes

I have no idea how people prefer mechanical LSD over electronics for snow driving. That's their choice anyways. Now, admittedly both, working together, are better. But on their own merits, for snow AND ice driving, I think the electronic solutions are better. For rock crawling, maybe not but snow and ice, yes. If you are ever in a skid or any other situation that involves traction and/or stability control, the electronics can shut down power or redirect brake pressure to the wheels as to avoid a hazardous condition or accident.

I know purists are going to argue. My daily driver is a Subaru Legacy GT with front, center and rear LSD, and manual gearbox. No traction or stability control. It's a driver's car. Before I upgraded the transmission, there was always a tendency to spin and overseer. Following the upgrade, the handling on ice or snow is almost neutral but I can still get into trouble easily - though it is far less adventurous to recover. I much prefer the Jeep and it's aggressive control of any skidding or traction issues.

And also, when parked on a street sloped towards the sidewalk, it is very easy for the Subaru to dig it's way towards the curb. Similarly, a more aggressive start would send the rear end sideways a few inches until the differentials ... make a difference. You just don't get that excitement with electronics. And I am not 18 to like it sideways anymore.

Our Jeeps do quite well in snow, even the wife figured out that snow mode is preferred in the unplowed alleys or parking lots.
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  #16  
Old 01-28-2015, 02:27 PM
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Re: Best snow driving techniques and modes

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Originally Posted by Stevm65 View Post
Thanks for all the input. It's very helpful. I took another ride later and performance was much better. I didn't realize that snow mode also made the power split to the axles 50/50. Maybe I underestimated it's value.
I've found snow mode to be of somewhat limited use in really deep snow.
It seems to help on ice, slush, or the deadly snow on top of ice mainly by reducing wheelspin at launch... possibly by changing the power distribution but some of us may be too used to powerful RWD vehicles to benefit much from that.

It does raise the vehicle [don't recall if above normal mode or not], which I guess could give you an inch or so of clearance when running on deep wet snow. I find that of limited benefit on the high mountain roads where the snow is faster than the plows, part of that may be because the snow tends to be much colder since the mountains are in the 8K to 10K foot range rather than wet coastal snow.

In wet snow, I just set it to OR-2 to get max height and hope the studs can bite enough to keep me moving, as it can be a real drag if the snow packs deep enough underneath to lift all 4 wheels. Even chains can't fix that.

I dunno why they disable ECO mode in snow mode, I've never noticed the transitions from 8 to 4 cylinder mode, but I guess it could happen, and possibly they just didn't want to drop power...

If the snow is nice mountain powder with temps near or below zero, the GC can handle snow deep enough to flow over the top of the hood. I wouldn't expect the V8 to be much superior to the V6 for this, as a 95ZJ 4.0 could do the same thing--enough that the snow busted a windshield wiper blade off, but still keep going.

Biggest problem is on new or highly drifted deep snow where there are no plow lines or reflective markers. Those mountain roads I love tend to have places where there is a whole lot of nothing off to either side, and no guard rails. But, I hate staying home in bad weather...
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Old 01-28-2015, 02:31 PM
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Re: Best snow driving techniques and modes

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Originally Posted by AquaForester View Post
That's with the stock Latitudes?
They do suck, but when growing up in northwest Montana in the 50's, few folks ever bothered with winter/snow tires. If it was bad enough you needed them, it was bad enough to just put on the chains and live with the racket/vibrations.

I do worry about the electronic helpers--for folks who never drove the old school type trucks/suvs and learned how to "feel" the road surface periodically and drive accordingly. I would be worried that the helpers let them get out into places where they can't get home..as they lack the true snow driving skills that take a while [and sometimes a few fenders] to learn.
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:03 PM
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Re: Best snow driving techniques and modes

Grew up driving old 4x4s with lockers, a Willys Jeep of dads and mostly rear wheel drive cars. My last car was an Acura TL Sh-AWD which was a monster in the snow. Actually plowed roads with its low front end.

Had the jeep out in the big storm yesterday in both hwy and back roads driving. It handled drifts on the hwy and deep snow on the back roads with ease. I have a 14 Hemi Limited with normal suspension and aggressive winter tires. I used snow mode as I wanted the higher level of stability control intervention due to the wife being on board. It was unstoppable. Snow coming over the hood and 4 wheel rooster tails. For fun in the snow I use sand mode. No traction control and way less stability control intervention so it can be a good time. For all around hooning I use sport mode.


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Old 01-29-2015, 10:59 AM
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Re: Best snow driving techniques and modes

This has all been very informative. I'm learning much and being open to all the different viewpoints. I've got a new appreciation for the snow mode, but I agree with some comments that deeper unplowed situations may need some variation. I go back and forth between ESC on and off. It's great until the snow gets deep and then it seems to bog things down, when some judicious wheelspin may get a bite. The owners manual states that it may be advisable to turn off in deep snow, and low range does in fact shut it off. Any tips on using it effectively? I'm still not sold on the BLD brake limited differential. I think that some of the members with really great performance may have the electronic locking differential, which I think would be more effective. Anyway please keep the opinions,tips, and stories coming. I'm sure that everyone benefits!
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Old 01-29-2015, 11:22 AM
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Re: Best snow driving techniques and modes

FWIW, you could have gotten another ELSD if you had opted for QD over QT. In that case you would have had a diff mid and rear and only the front would be open.

-john


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Old 01-29-2015, 11:56 AM
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Re: Best snow driving techniques and modes

I know now, but at the time the vehicle was on the lot and was exactly what I was looking for in all other respects. Things are probably too integrated to add one now.
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  #22  
Old 01-29-2015, 12:55 PM
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Re: Best snow driving techniques and modes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevm65 View Post
This has all been very informative. I'm learning much and being open to all the different viewpoints. I've got a new appreciation for the snow mode, but I agree with some comments that deeper unplowed situations may need some variation. I go back and forth between ESC on and off. It's great until the snow gets deep and then it seems to bog things down, when some judicious wheelspin may get a bite. The owners manual states that it may be advisable to turn off in deep snow, and low range does in fact shut it off. Any tips on using it effectively? I'm still not sold on the BLD brake limited differential. I think that some of the members with really great performance may have the electronic locking differential, which I think would be more effective. Anyway please keep the opinions,tips, and stories coming. I'm sure that everyone benefits!
It would be odd if ECO mode bogged anything down in deep snow, as with load on the engine, it should not be in 4 banger mode anyway. Just use snow mode, it also turns off ECO if it becomes too difficult to decide.

Positraction and limited slip rear ends have an ugly side in snow, if they latch up fully with a powerful engine, you can lose steering action. Been there, got the dings.

For controlling wheelspin, I don't see any difference between the elsd and a well adjusted mechanical limited slip, although I'd expect the elsd to maintain consistent behavior a bit better than mechanical.

Brake type isn't as effective, however if you'd driven in heavy snow, mud, etc. in a vehicle without limited slip, you've probably used mild brake or hand brake application as "poor man's positraction" before..
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  #23  
Old 01-29-2015, 02:06 PM
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Re: Best snow driving techniques and modes

It would be nice to get more detailed descriptions of the different modes. So far this is the best I've seen as a single write-up, but still is pretty high level.

http://www.wk2jeeps.com/wk2_selec-terrain.htm


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  #24  
Old 01-29-2015, 02:28 PM
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Re: Best snow driving techniques and modes

Been a few months but I seem to recall the owners manual going into pretty good detail on how the vehicle "changes" in each of the modes.
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