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  #13  
Old 11-11-2015, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesla30 View Post
So you're recommending the Nokians eh? Are they just as quiet as the stock Forteras? I like the snow traction ability, but honestly I drive way more on pavement and will regret my decision if they are a bit noisy/annoying on a 2000 mile roadtrip...
The Nokians are not a noisy tire but will be slightly noisier than the Michelins which are very quiet, i discussed this with Nokian several months ago in emails and they actually referred me to the consumer reports noise ratings on the two tires. But the Nokian will be better on snow if that is your priority. Check the Mopar coupons they have on line, they do have buy 4 get one free deals if you have the tires done at the dealer. I had my dealer work me up a quote on the defenders and it was like $840 with the buy 4 get one free,

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  #14  
Old 11-11-2015, 07:08 PM
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Re: Michelin Defender LTX M/S vs Nokian WRG3 SUV

I trolled eBay for a few weeks. I found a Jeep/Dodge dealer that was selling new 2015 18" rims with sensors and Michelin rubber for $650 shipped. I quickly jumped all over that. Michelin for Summer on newer rims and Saharas on the original 2011 rims.

Of course if you are running with 20" rims and tires you are pretty limited. A grand may be a very decent price. I was having a hard time finding 18" tires for under $205/tire.

If you drive slow and smart with physics on your side Winter and snow doesn't necessarily mean your all seasons won't work well. Slow to stop and start remembering to keep your distances farther. We live in the Lake Ontario snowmelt. 2 miles from its South shore. It amazes me each year that so many people forget how to drive in snow. The first few storms see almost 10% of the cars knocked out either getting totaled or needing heavy collision repair. I take my time. I once was going about 15 miles an hour on the benches of the Wasatch mountain range in Salt Lake City. Very cold but sunny. Then the sun disappeared behind a cloud and some brutal cold wind blew by. I was in a Land Rover discovery as the road surface went to a sheet of solid ice. The antilock breaks just pulsed doing absolutely nothing. The down grade wasn't that steep, but I had just crossed over the ridge so all momentum going straight down. A full 90 curve was at the bottom. My speed started to increase as I futilely struggled with breaks and trying to downshift. My rover just kept going straight up and over grass and through a rod iron fence into a backyard. I was very upset as I approached the homeowners front door.

They weren't pissed. It happened at least one per Winter over the 6 years they lived there. Finally the HOA granted permission to place large barrier boulders, but no angling the road better. I was ticket doing 15 because of weather conditions. Sadly they were just fine before the sun disappeared and a wind colder than 15F de solved any impact previous salt had made. An expensive mistake. With only a $500/ deductible it was still about $8500 in body work and grill/headlight assembly and right fog lamp.

Slow and careful is the only way to drive in bad Winter areas. I'm sure the Colorado guy knows this all to well. Luckily it's pretty flat here until you get near the Finger Lakes further South. In those hills dedicated snow tires is a must.
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  #15  
Old 11-15-2015, 09:33 PM
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Re: Michelin Defender LTX M/S vs Nokian WRG3 SUV

Quote:
Originally Posted by silvermax04 View Post
The Nokians are not a noisy tire but will be slightly noisier than the Michelins which are very quiet, i discussed this with Nokian several months ago in emails and they actually referred me to the consumer reports noise ratings on the two tires. But the Nokian will be better on snow if that is your priority. Check the Mopar coupons they have on line, they do have buy 4 get one free deals if you have the tires done at the dealer. I had my dealer work me up a quote on the defenders and it was like $840 with the buy 4 get one free,
Thanks I will definitely check that out.
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Old 11-15-2015, 09:36 PM
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Re: Michelin Defender LTX M/S vs Nokian WRG3 SUV

Quote:
Originally Posted by champagneinhand View Post
I trolled eBay for a few weeks. I found a Jeep/Dodge dealer that was selling new 2015 18" rims with sensors and Michelin rubber for $650 shipped. I quickly jumped all over that. Michelin for Summer on newer rims and Saharas on the original 2011 rims.

Of course if you are running with 20" rims and tires you are pretty limited. A grand may be a very decent price. I was having a hard time finding 18" tires for under $205/tire.

If you drive slow and smart with physics on your side Winter and snow doesn't necessarily mean your all seasons won't work well. Slow to stop and start remembering to keep your distances farther. We live in the Lake Ontario snowmelt. 2 miles from its South shore. It amazes me each year that so many people forget how to drive in snow. The first few storms see almost 10% of the cars knocked out either getting totaled or needing heavy collision repair. I take my time. I once was going about 15 miles an hour on the benches of the Wasatch mountain range in Salt Lake City. Very cold but sunny. Then the sun disappeared behind a cloud and some brutal cold wind blew by. I was in a Land Rover discovery as the road surface went to a sheet of solid ice. The antilock breaks just pulsed doing absolutely nothing. The down grade wasn't that steep, but I had just crossed over the ridge so all momentum going straight down. A full 90 curve was at the bottom. My speed started to increase as I futilely struggled with breaks and trying to downshift. My rover just kept going straight up and over grass and through a rod iron fence into a backyard. I was very upset as I approached the homeowners front door.

They weren't pissed. It happened at least one per Winter over the 6 years they lived there. Finally the HOA granted permission to place large barrier boulders, but no angling the road better. I was ticket doing 15 because of weather conditions. Sadly they were just fine before the sun disappeared and a wind colder than 15F de solved any impact previous salt had made. An expensive mistake. With only a $500/ deductible it was still about $8500 in body work and grill/headlight assembly and right fog lamp.

Slow and careful is the only way to drive in bad Winter areas. I'm sure the Colorado guy knows this all to well. Luckily it's pretty flat here until you get near the Finger Lakes further South. In those hills dedicated snow tires is a must.
I definitely know what you mean. I always laugh when the roads are iced and I see that idiot in his jacked up pickup blowing through going about 3 times as fast as everyone else. And I always cross my fingers I will see him in the ditch 10 minutes down the road because when he tried to stop he realized absolutely nothing helps you slow down on ice besides a slow speed. Tires and 4 wheel drive help you get going, but they don't do shit for slowing down. Some people are just not smart.
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  #17  
Old 11-15-2015, 10:27 PM
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Re: Michelin Defender LTX M/S vs Nokian WRG3 SUV

"Some people are just not smart."
And the real shame is that there's no cure for stupid.
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  #18  
Old 11-15-2015, 11:31 PM
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Re: Michelin Defender LTX M/S vs Nokian WRG3 SUV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesla30 View Post
I definitely know what you mean. I always laugh when the roads are iced and I see that idiot in his jacked up pickup blowing through going about 3 times as fast as everyone else. And I always cross my fingers I will see him in the ditch 10 minutes down the road because when he tried to stop he realized absolutely nothing helps you slow down on ice besides a slow speed. Tires and 4 wheel drive help you get going, but they don't do shit for slowing down. Some people are just not smart.

This is great fun. I used to see it constantly driving up to Tahoe as guy in jacked up Toyotas would pass everybody else. Around the next bend they would be off the road on ye trucks side. Standing there looking puzzled.

Around here it's amazing through the first few storms. I installed a dash camera over 3 years back to catch these treasured moments and to have evidence of my car happened to be hit or somebody got hurt because of the moronic actions of an idiot. I bought a newer camera this year. The State Troopers that monitor the stretch of highway I frequent seem to pull over people they see passing my rig. They know I try to drive defensively and use caution. In snow packed roads I don't change lanes because some idiot hit the snooze bar too many times and thinks everybody should accommodate his laziness and thoughtlessness. How do you explain or apologize for injuring or killing others because you can't drive the proper speeds given the conditions.

We all travel on four patches of moving fire not much bigger that your opened hand. All side forces, accelerations and braking rely on these four spots working correctly. I try to drive to stay alive and hope I can avoid the moronic behavior of others. Now I'm just more proactive because I have full HD video and GPS data, if I see dangerous drivers in the roads our families use as well.

Just saying for about $120, it a worthwhile investment. I put them in all our vehicles this year with my daughter starting to drive.
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  #19  
Old 11-18-2015, 07:45 PM
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Re: Michelin Defender LTX M/S vs Nokian WRG3 SUV

Quote:
Originally Posted by silvermax04 View Post
The Nokians are not a noisy tire but will be slightly noisier than the Michelins which are very quiet, i discussed this with Nokian several months ago in emails and they actually referred me to the consumer reports noise ratings on the two tires. But the Nokian will be better on snow if that is your priority. Check the Mopar coupons they have on line, they do have buy 4 get one free deals if you have the tires done at the dealer. I had my dealer work me up a quote on the defenders and it was like $840 with the buy 4 get one free,
Another option is the Toyo Celsius. Similar to the WRG3 with an M+S rating and 60K miles warranty. About $195 a tire for the 20".

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  #20  
Old 11-18-2015, 10:21 PM
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Re: Michelin Defender LTX M/S vs Nokian WRG3 SUV

First, Live in Baltimore metro area. last winter we had a very severe storm roll in and dump a very quick 6-12" of fairly fluffy snow (temps dropping from 31 to 25). I had taken my wife to visit her mother in hospice when it started around noon. We left at 4pm and by that time the beltway (I-695) was a parking lot and all of Baltimore was gridlocked, it just came down that hard and fast. I had to drive back roads to get home, about 25 miles north where the storm was even worse. I still had the original Forterra's with about 30k on them. My V-6 Overland was an absolute TANK and in all aspects. It stopped great, turned great, started from a dead stop on steep icy hills that other 4wd had lost control and spun out or could not move on. Hell I even had to go through a shallow ditch and into a field to go around a snarl of idiots. In snow mode it reads your mind. Just so you know I work as a manager for I-95 here in Md and have plowed snow for over 25 years in Dumps, Oshkoshes, tractors, loaders and pickups, so I do have more experience driving in it than most. But I also am very qualified in rating a vehicle in the snow and this GC is by far the BEST. Now onto the Michelins... I had a set of LTX A/S on my 2000 Ram 4x4 quad and they were excellent in the snow, so when I went looking for tires for my 2012 Ram 2500 Crew 4x4 I ended up with LTX MS/2's. They were also very good in snow but much quieter than the original A/S's and transformed the wet and dry handling, braking and ride quality by miles. So with the Forterra's wearing down I naturally looked at Michelins. At the time (about 3 months ago) the DEFENDER LTX M/S were not available in our 20" size so the only choices were LATITUDE TOUR HP and the PREMIER LTX. I noticed that the 2016's were going to use the Pirelli SCORPION VERDE ALL SEASON PLUS so I wasn't really sure what I would buy. I ended up waiting and bought the DEFENDER LTX M/S and am very happy I did. It has greatly improved the handling; ride, dry and wet handling, stopping and steering feel as well as expansion joints and bumps by a vey wide margin. I've put about 5000 miles on them so far. I cannot report on the snow/ice aspect yet. however the tread design is very close to the MS/2's and they were very good in snow and ice in a light rearend pickup and the snow aspect of the tire is reported by Michelin to be 20% better due to newer sipe technology. I can't imagine they will be anything but very good in the snow on the jeep. I read a lot about the Nokian tires but have zero experience with them. There is no doubt dedicated snow tires will outperform all seasons. The type you are asking about does have a longer tread life and is more for keeping on all year. Personally unless I lived where snow was on the road 4-6 months of the year, I would go with the all seasons on the jeep. Of course if money grew on trees I'd probably have a set of winter rims and tires in the garage. Wishful thinking. Good luck!


PS. The one thing I would love to see on the GC's is heated windshields, wipers and wiper fluid ala Mercedes. It is the ONLY issue driving these SNOW TANKS, period!
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  #21  
Old 11-19-2015, 10:49 AM
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Re: Michelin Defender LTX M/S vs Nokian WRG3 SUV

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Originally Posted by Jamesla30 View Post
So you're recommending the Nokians eh? Are they just as quiet as the stock Forteras? I like the snow traction ability, but honestly I drive way more on pavement and will regret my decision if they are a bit noisy/annoying on a 2000 mile roadtrip...
No, they not as quiet as OEM tires as they are designed with a different objective. However the WK2 has enough sound proofing that you will not hear them unless you turn the radio off and try to hear them. My driving is over 90% pavement. I had the Michelin LTX M/S 2's on my 2011 WK2 and they are as quiet as OEM, but not good on hard packed snow or ice. I do, though, feel that the Michelin is a good tire.
The Toyo Celsius is a new tire aimed at the WR G3 market at a lower price. (Snowflake/mountain symbol, 12 month tire.) I look forward to comments as people buy and use them. I asked my high end sports car friend about Toyo tires on Monday and he would not buy a Toyo product based on what he has heard. However, that is only one person's opinion.
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  #22  
Old 11-19-2015, 11:47 AM
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Re: Michelin Defender LTX M/S vs Nokian WRG3 SUV

I have Michelin in during Warm months because when it rains it comes in microbursts. During Winter I switch wheels because of corrosion to the painted alloys(dumb call for a Jeep in the first place), but these inexpensive Kelly Saharas work great in the snow. Have used them the past 2 Winters in the Lake Ontario snow belt. Changing out wheels today as the first snow of the year while be hear in less than 12 hours.

As long as the all seasons have good tread depth and you drive according to the conditions your WK2 will be just fine.
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  #23  
Old 11-20-2015, 07:32 PM
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Re: Michelin Defender LTX M/S vs Nokian WRG3 SUV

Quote:
Originally Posted by newtoncd8 View Post
Another option is the Toyo Celsius. Similar to the WRG3 with an M+S rating and 60K miles warranty. About $195 a tire for the 20".

Thanks for pointing out those Toyos. They look very promising. I'm going to call around and inquire about them. Plus, they have a 500 mile return policy if you're not happy with them.
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Old 11-20-2015, 07:44 PM
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Re: Michelin Defender LTX M/S vs Nokian WRG3 SUV

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Originally Posted by 2014BB View Post
Thanks for pointing out those Toyos. They look very promising. I'm going to call around and inquire about them. Plus, they have a 500 mile return policy if you're not happy with them.

My son and wife run these on their Volvos. They have 17" wheels and the Toyo were the best tire in value/size and overall performance. Many run these on the Cherokees however not with 18" on WK2. They are a good low profile tire. If you have the Thaler side walls I would stick with Original choices or Continentals.
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