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  #109  
Old 05-02-2011, 04:49 PM
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Re: Off-Road Adventure II Package Tires

These tires are terrible in anything beyond a gravel road. I just had them out in about a foot of snow and got completely stuck. I had to spend about an hour digging the car out and cutting down trees and the rear end kept trying to slid down the hill. It was extremely lame for what is suppose to be a "trail rated jeep" I think I will have to get some silent armors or something similar that will actually handle in an off road situation.
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  #110  
Old 05-03-2011, 12:28 AM
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Re: Off-Road Adventure II Package Tires

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Originally Posted by 77rednecktruck View Post
sure it can, we have been debating it for a while now.

I consider anything other than a racing slick and on/off road tire. It's not a mud tire, rock crawling tire, desert tire, etc... It is simply a tire that can be taken off road and by Jeep getting the "Trail Rated" badge using this tire, I am sure it is suitable for off road use. Is it the best tire for mud, no. Is it the best tire for snow, no. Is it a capable tire than can handle 90% of the uses a Jeep Grand Cherokee driver will use it for, absolutely.

I have taken mine out in the mud and didn't get stuck and had it during 8" of snow last winter and the jeep performed good in both situations. I am sure there are tires out there that are strictly off road tires that would be better but they will also be gone in 20K miles. I have the Hemi, ORII, and the Latitudes and am happy. Well, I wish they looked a little better but they perform well enough for me.
Heck - I've taken a sedan in street tires "off road" (very carefully). Doesn't really prove much. Obviously I couldn't go places a higher clearance vehicle could, nor was it something I'd do a lot of.

The issue in this part of the country isn't really mud, it's rocks - and I'm not talking "rock-crawling" - just hard, sharp rocks on trails that require tire designed for that. The Latitudes are not (per Michelin.)

Regarding wear: The LTX A/T2 will wear almost as long as the Latitude Tour - really no issue there.

Regarding the debate: The facts that should not be in dispute are:

1) Chrysler stated the ORA II package includes an "On-Road/Off-Road" tire

2) They did not deliver one (as confirmed by the tire manufacturer)

It boggles my mind that anyone disputes the above. What is more interesting to debate is: What should the buyer's response be?

Responses have ranged all the way from people not caring to those who vow never to buy a Jeep again ... and so forth.

I think everyone knows my position ... thanks to this forum, I knew about the tire issue in advance, so I wasn't blindsided (Note: I did not know about this when I ordered - I really expected to get Off-Road tires, since that is what Jeep had given me with my previous JGCs).

Anyway... the choices for me were to either walk away from a vehicle that I had been waiting for patiently for three months, or make arrangements to change the tires. It ended up being $460 out of pocket, but I did get road hazard with the new tires - approx $100 value. So it really cost me $360 plus a mild hassle.

I was certainly not about to "throw the baby out with the bathwater" - In most other ways, I am quite satisfied with my new WK2 and with my buying experience.

Mostly it just saddens me. Building and maintaining a "brand" is really important and it can mean a lot to a company. Jeep, as a brand, has stood for certain things over the years. I fully understand that 95% of the JGCs sold will never leave the pavement -- but the mystique of Jeep was that they could.

Jeep's historical practice of offering an "up country" or "off road" package for the JGC was really smart. That way they could offer the quieter (and higher EPA rated) street tires on the majority of the models and let those of us who planned to take the JGC off road "self-select".

So in the end, more than anything it's a "head-scratcher". I really don't see why Jeep didn't just put on off-road tires. If they needed to raise the price of the ORA II package, I doubt anyone would have made an issue of it.

I'd like to think that some idiot bean counter made the decision (as opposed to real "Jeep people") and that Jeep will learn from this. That's why I called Jeep and lodged a (polite) complaint. If they don't hear from us, they have no feedback to get it right next time.
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  #111  
Old 05-03-2011, 11:11 AM
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Re: Off-Road Adventure II Package Tires

Well written, netcoolery.
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  #112  
Old 05-03-2011, 01:20 PM
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Re: Off-Road Adventure II Package Tires

^agreed
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  #113  
Old 05-05-2011, 09:24 PM
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Re: Off-Road Adventure II Package Tires

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Originally Posted by VermontHobbit View Post
Our Overland with the ORA II package was delivered with Michelin Latitude Tour tires, which are characterized by Michelin as an All Season SUV/Crossover tire.

The Jeep info, and the window sticker clearly state "P265/60R18 OWL On/Off Road Tires". I was expecting something like the LTX A/T 2, which is a much more expensive tire.

Are the Latitude Tours what everyone else with the ORA II package received? I'll be following up with the dealer Monday.
I'm currently in communications with Chrysler on this exact problem. I too have the Trail Rated package (one of the few people that will wind up actually taking my new Jeep deep off road) and wound up with Michelin Latitude Tour tires supplied by Chrysler as "on/off road" tires as described in the product description of the Trail Rated package. I have also contacted Michelin directly and have documentation directly from them stating that this particular tire (regardless of tire size) is definitely NOT an off road tire and designed STRICTLY for highway road use. I am taking legal action against Chrysler for contract failure. No matter what THEY call them, Michelin is the OEM and design holder for these tires and they are being incorrectly used. If I in my off road adventures attempt to climb a rock faced hill (as intended by Jeep and the Trail Rating) and these tires loose traction.. which they will with no aggressive tread design.. and I become injured, Michelin will testify that these tires were not intended for anything other than road use and Chrysler will become liable. My legal firm is looking into a Class Action suite against Chrysler for this to prevent potential serious injury to users. I will keep you informed
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  #114  
Old 05-06-2011, 10:29 AM
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Re: Off-Road Adventure II Package Tires

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Originally Posted by netcoolery View Post
So in the end, more than anything it's a "head-scratcher". I really don't see why Jeep didn't just put on off-road tires. If they needed to raise the price of the ORA II package, I doubt anyone would have made an issue of it.

I'd like to think that some idiot bean counter made the decision (as opposed to real "Jeep people") and that Jeep will learn from this. That's why I called Jeep and lodged a (polite) complaint. If they don't hear from us, they have no feedback to get it right next time.
Well stated, netcoolery, and I agree it was handled poorly. Having worked in the auto business at central office levels I am certain that it was a communication failure between engineering, marketing, materials purchasing and product planning teams. Somebody did not do their job, and this issue was overlooked or, if it was known, became ignored in the rush to market. The marketing people and the responsible executives who sign off should take the brunt of blame because they are the people who tie everything together to pitch it to consumers.

It is the rush to market that was most probably due to someone with executive power who was not a "car guy" and made the decision to forge ahead without attending to details; unfortunately there are many such people in ALL the auto manufacturing companies....far too many, believe me. On a positive note, I do have faith that Sergio Marchionne will make corrections to prevent these kinds of errors in the future. He is certainly a "car guy" and we can thank him for ensuring the WK2 received the wonderful interior has to name just one example.
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  #115  
Old 05-19-2011, 09:16 PM
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Re: Off-Road Adventure II Package Tires

Finally gave up on Chrysler Customer Care. My original case manager apparently got sick and my case ended up in limbo. I called to get an update after a few weeks. Found out I had a new case manager but she never bothered to call. When I finally reached her, she was less than helpful (I'm being polite).

To make a long story short, she has never called back let me know the final disposition of my complaint. To make matters worse, she's blown off the Service Manager at my dealership as well. I can understand if the final determination was not to provide assistance, but the fact that Chrysler Customer Care couldn't "Care" less and doesn't even have the courtesy to respond???

So here's the good news! The Service Manager at my dealership, Faricy Boys Jeep - Aaron Captain has been great. I can highly recommend him and my Service Advisor, Michael Cope, to anyone in or near the Colorado Springs area.

After giving up on Chrysler Customer Care, Aaron made me a deal I couldn't refuse on a set of Michelin LTX M/S 2s. I was leaning toward the Goodyear Wrangler SilentArmor, but wary of the very mixed reviews. I have the M/S 2s on my Liberty and they are MUCH BETTER in snow than the Latitude Tours. I've also had the M/S 2s on some pretty rugged 4wd trails in Colorado and they did fine. Also, as I said, the Service Manager made me a deal I couldn't refuse and I'm glad he was on my side!!!

Kudos to Faricy Boys Jeep and the Service Department! A big PHHFFT to Chrysler Customer Care!
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  #116  
Old 06-04-2011, 12:55 PM
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Re: Off-Road Adventure II Package Tires

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Originally Posted by vikingdave View Post
Even something like an LTX M/S2 is much better off road that the latitude, but easily good for 60,000 miles, and extremely quiet. The Latitude is a silly choice with an Offroad package. I'm trying to come up with a good analogy, but nothing I can come up with sounds any crazier than a minivan tire on a "Trail Rated" 4x4 Jeep with skid plates.

OK, maybe putting a "Heavy Duty Tow Package" on a Prius would be a good comparison ..
I have the MS 2's on my 06 RAM 4X4 works great in snow and mud and is quiet on the pavement. When my latitudes wear out this will be the tire of choice. Had our Overland up to Tahoe several times including some back roads - had zero issues - the tires have performed fine.
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  #117  
Old 06-06-2011, 09:43 PM
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Re: Off-Road Adventure II Package Tires

Please keep all these postings going.... I got the ORA II package because I wanted tires similar to my previous jeeps...not the 20" rims that om standard! I'm not an off-roader by any means, but I ski a lot, so winter performance is obviously important to me. This season I must have lucked out, since I never drove through anything more than light snow. now I'm concerned about the performance I'll have when I hit weather next season.

How deep does the snow need o get to notice a performance issue?
Does anyone have any knowledge of the X-ice versions of the latitudes?
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  #118  
Old 06-16-2011, 08:00 PM
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Re: Off-Road Adventure II Package Tires

My Overland arrived and I switched out the tires to BFG All Terrain KO size LT265-65R-18 and they fit beautifully. No rubbing whatsoever, even with the steering wheel hard over. Boy, do they look great!
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  #119  
Old 06-17-2011, 07:07 PM
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Re: Off-Road Adventure II Package Tires

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Originally Posted by mhansen2 View Post
My Overland arrived and I switched out the tires to BFG All Terrain KO size LT265-65R-18 and they fit beautifully. No rubbing whatsoever, even with the steering wheel hard over. Boy, do they look great!
Since I have never done a tire swap before, how do you recalibrate your odometer/ speedometer since you're going up a bit in circumference? You're speedometer will lie to you now and tell you you're going slower than you really are now....
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  #120  
Old 06-18-2011, 12:57 PM
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Re: Off-Road Adventure II Package Tires

I too was unhappy with the OEM tires, even with the "off road package." Figuring I wasn't going to get anywhere with Jeep/Chrysler, I bought Firestone Destination ATs (same as I have on my Dodge Dakota; I really like them as an everyday tire with the ability to go light offroading) for $800 and sold my OEM tires for $350 on Craigslist. Just chalking it up as a $450 'improvement' to my Jeep. Oh well.
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