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  #37  
Old 05-03-2011, 10:31 PM
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Re: SCANDALOUS!!! 20" Wheels AND Trail Rated?!?!

I find the inclusion of the word "articulation" laughable...... THERE IS VIRTUALLY NONE!
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  #38  
Old 05-03-2011, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan JGC View Post
No, it's not just a fancy sticker. Trail Rated is a certification by Jeep that it meets certain off-road capabilities.
Give me a break. I am a serious offroader and this "badge" means nothing to me. Let's look at what you get with the "Trail Rated" Jeep.
1.Tow Hooks up front. A useful item I must admit, but these do not add a

performance benefit to the Jeep.

2. Skid plates. Again a useful item that adds no performance benefit.

3. 18" wheels and "offroad tires". No performance benefit as the tires are no more " offroad" tires then the 20" goodyears on my Overland. And please don't say 18" wheels are better offroad then 20" wheels. That's a losing argument on your side.

A " Trail Rated" Grand has no different or upgraded suspension, axle, or transfer case components from a non trail rated Grand. With no upgraded parts it is impossible to claim it has better articulation, maneuverability, water-fording, or anything else you claim a " Trail Rated" Jeep to have.

I present that any 4 wheel drive Grand Cherokee is just as capable as any other.
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  #39  
Old 05-03-2011, 10:50 PM
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Re: SCANDALOUS!!! 20" Wheels AND Trail Rated?!?!

Hey Frank TJ. Jeep set the criteria not me. I am just holding them to their own standard.

With that said, you can NOT seriously tell me that skid plates aren't necessary for going out on extreme trails??? Sure if you want to incur thousands of dollars in damages and get stuck somewhere out in the middle of nowhere...sorry, but skid plates add to trail capability, plan and simple as that.
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Old 05-03-2011, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan JGC View Post
Hey Frank TJ. Jeep set the criteria not me. I am just holding them to their own standard.

With that said, you can NOT seriously tell me that skid plates aren't necessary for going out on extreme trails??? Sure if you want to incur thousands of dollars in damages and get stuck somewhere out in the middle of nowhere...sorry, but skid plates add to trail capability, plan and simple as that.
Which performance category does a skid plate fit into?? Traction, articulation, ground clearance, maneuverability, water-fording???

By the way Extreme trails in a $50k SUV??? Your kidding right?? And don't say the Rubicon or Moab is extreme.
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  #41  
Old 05-03-2011, 11:07 PM
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Re: SCANDALOUS!!! 20" Wheels AND Trail Rated?!?!

^^^

That's the point, not ALL Grand Cherokees are Trail Rated. So what. You don't need to be on extreme trails to need skid plates...hit a side rut with a rock in the middle of the trail or run over some branches and have one stick jam up into your GC. I think you limit the definition of "capability"...skid plates add to off road capability, period.
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  #42  
Old 05-03-2011, 11:14 PM
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Re: SCANDALOUS!!! 20" Wheels AND Trail Rated?!?!

So we've gone from this being a wheel issue to a skid plate issue..?
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  #43  
Old 05-03-2011, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan JGC View Post
^^^

That's the point, not ALL Grand Cherokees are Trail Rated. So what. You don't need to be on extreme trails to need skid plates...hit a side rut with a rock in the middle of the trail or run over some branches and have one stick jam up into your GC. I think you limit the definition of "capability"...skid plates add to off road capability, period.
No your still wrong. Skid plates add protection, not capability. My Overland is just as capable as yours.
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  #44  
Old 05-03-2011, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWK View Post
So we've gone from this being a wheel issue to a skid plate issue..?
I have never seen anyone with such a $ard on for a $3.00 stick on badge.
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  #45  
Old 05-03-2011, 11:18 PM
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Re: SCANDALOUS!!! 20" Wheels AND Trail Rated?!?!

Some people are just more succeptable to marketing I guess........
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  #46  
Old 05-04-2011, 02:41 PM
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Re: SCANDALOUS!!! 20" Wheels AND Trail Rated?!?!

I was doing a recall on a brand new 011 Ram 1500... putting it up in the air I noticed a flex fuel badge on the rear and when I saw it I had this weird feeling I had walked past a hemi badge on the side of the vehicle. I walked around the side of the vehicle and sure enough, I now have a brand new hemi badge for my tool box because the truck was equipped with a 4.7l not a hemi.

Badges get put on wrong, it happens.
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  #47  
Old 05-04-2011, 03:55 PM
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Re: SCANDALOUS!!! 20" Wheels AND Trail Rated?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank TJ View Post
1.Tow Hooks up front. A useful item I must admit, but these do not add a
performance benefit to the Jeep.

Why does the upgrade have to add a performance benefit to make it more trail capable? The tow hooks are to help if you get stuck - this ads the capability of being able to be rescued easily when/if that happens. Makes complete sense to me.

2. Skid plates. Again a useful item that adds no performance benefit.

In a non Trail Rated Jeep you could easily do catastrophic damage to a vital drivetrain componant without the skid plates. So adding skidplates makes the vehicle more capable to continue if you do bottom out rather than ending your day with a nice big repair bill.

3. 18" wheels and "offroad tires". No performance benefit as the tires are no more " offroad" tires then the 20" goodyears on my Overland. And please don't say 18" wheels are better offroad then 20" wheels. That's a losing argument on your side.

I agree 100% on the tires as clearly they are not dedicated off-road but am curious as to why you think a 20" wheel with far less sidewall would be more desireable on the trail?? With a larger sidewall there is less of a chance you are going to do damage to the wheel even if it is only cosmetic. You still need to drive home once your back on-road so why risk bending a larger rim or scratching the living hell out of it? Bottom line, a 20" wheel can be damaged much more easily than an 18".

A " Trail Rated" Grand has no different or upgraded suspension, axle, or transfer case components from a non trail rated Grand. With no upgraded parts it is impossible to claim it has better articulation, maneuverability, water-fording, or anything else you claim a " Trail Rated" Jeep to have.

I agree with you again here. Articulation/maneuverability does not change and Jeep should update the literature on the website.

That being said, I don't think people are saying that because it's trail rated it is all of a sudden unstoppable... it just has features and options more suited towards people who do venture off-road. In regards to water fording the Jeep site notes that trail rated jeeps have additional electrical sealing etc to help prevent water related issues. This could be as simple as additional coating/sleeving on some of the wire harnesses but it's still protection over and above that of a standard Jeep. Now a whole other argument can be had as to whether this is actually done on the new GC but until someone proves otherwise I'm going to assume it's there.

I present that any 4 wheel drive Grand Cherokee is just as capable as any other.

... until you get stuck or mangle parts because you have no skidplates. Then your non Trail Rated Jeep become as capable as a paperweight while the trail rated version can probably recover and continue.
By no means am I an extreme off-roader but IMO the package was well worth the fairly modest price tag.
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:07 AM
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Re: SCANDALOUS!!! 20" Wheels AND Trail Rated?!?!

Regarding the 18" vs 20" wheels .. it's not the absolute wheel size that's the issue, it's the tire aspect ratio. Remember, the total diameter of both setups is the same, you are just getting 1" more sidewall. This becomes important when you "air down" to avoid cutting tires on rocky trails.

For the skeptic who questioned taking an expensive JGC out to extreme trails - FWIW I took my 98 JGC to some pretty extreme stuff and it performed admirably. There's always limits to any setup and no one is arguing that a JGC is as capable as a Wrangler. But if the JGC can do the trail ... it sure gets you to the trail head a lot more comfortably than the Wrangler.

It remains to be seen what kind of stuff I'll take my Summit over - for one thing, taking the front air dam off sounds like a major PITA ... so that may limit my enthusiasm for stuff that requires a severe approach angle ... we'll see.
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