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  #13  
Old 12-09-2013, 12:29 PM
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Re: Snow!! Not so good...

3rd winter on Blizzaks on wife's Cayenne S and it still looks new. Outstanding handling on snow and ice. We drove our Cayenne on a frozen lake back in January and there is a huge difference between all-seasons and dedicated winter tires. Our Porsche dealer organized the event and it was super fun "drifting" an suv on ice. We got to drive other cars as well (audis and porsches).

If you are going to be driving in cold temperatures, get snow tires for traction and piece of mind. All seasons are a compromise I think but may work ok. I drive very defensively on snowy conditions and hence I did not get snow tires for my Jeep. Wife, on the other hand, shuttles the kid to daycare and goes to work. So, I prefer that she not worry about traction in her car (hence snow tires for her car).

For the Jeep, I got a set of JKU wheels/tires with Bridgestone Dueler ATs ($500 for 5). They have been great on snow and off-road. The OEM wheels and tires (Michelin Latitudes) are used in summer till first snow or so. I quickly found out that the OEM tires were kind of not so great in snow.

Cheers,
-A
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  #14  
Old 12-09-2013, 06:11 PM
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Re: Snow!! Not so good...

have you tried the obvious - lowering the tire pressures as to increase the footprint and the "bite" ?

on my Subaru, which lacks electronic nannies, lowering pressures is a time-tested rule. I go from 43 psi front and 40 psi rear to 40 psi front and 35-36 rear. Big difference even on exemplary tires like Continental Extreme Contact DWS with 12,000 smiles...over as many miles.
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Old 12-09-2013, 06:47 PM
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Re: Snow!! Not so good...

Did standard radials become less effective in snow over the years? And, does M+S no longer stand for mud and snow?

The reason I'm curious is that I am old enough to remember when radials started to show up as original equipment on cars. One of the benefits was supposed to be no more need for snow tires. I lived in NY at the time and, not knowing any better, routinely drove my Impala, Monte Carlo, and Caprice in snow up to 10" deep.

Today it seems that even with 4wd or AWD many people find they need special tires for winter. I can understand it in high snow areas, but not everywhere. Unless, today's radials aren't what they used to be.

I haven't purchased tires in over 20 years so haven't kept up.


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Old 12-09-2013, 07:28 PM
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Re: Snow!! Not so good...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill_de View Post
Did standard radials become less effective in snow over the years? And, does M+S no longer stand for mud and snow?

The reason I'm curious is that I am old enough to remember when radials started to show up as original equipment on cars. One of the benefits was supposed to be no more need for snow tires. I lived in NY at the time and, not knowing any better, routinely drove my Impala, Monte Carlo, and Caprice in snow up to 10" deep.

Today it seems that even with 4wd or AWD many people find they need special tires for winter. I can understand it in high snow areas, but not everywhere. Unless, today's radials aren't what they used to be.

I haven't purchased tires in over 20 years so haven't kept up.


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How can you not have purchased tires in over 20 years?

Today's all seasons are really no seasons. Can you get home in snow on no seasons yeah maybe but winter tires give you abetter chance especially with some of the knuckleheads out of the roads today texting and driving on snow and ice. AWd and 4wd dont help you turn or stop. The electronic nannies on today's vehicles are only so good they arent perfect.

Heck I used to have summer tires, track tires, and winter tires in my garage when I had a BMW.
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  #17  
Old 12-09-2013, 07:35 PM
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Re: Snow!! Not so good...

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Originally Posted by Setoutguy View Post
Not really. All season or no seasons dont have the tread compounds and tread design to handle that first two inches of snow.

I am on my second season on the Blizzaks and still have plenty of tread left. We will see how much tread is left in March. I only run my winter tires for approx 90 days.

The X5 maybe tougher on tires.

Tarpon Beach if you decide to get winter tires my tire guy in Silver Spring MD has beat Discount and Tire Rack prices for the last 25 years.
Thanks, If we keep getting snow, I will take you up on that. The X5 was tough on tires, although the following line in BMW instruction manuals echoes what you
said: "ESP and ABS still cannot defy the laws of physics."
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Old 12-09-2013, 07:44 PM
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Re: Snow!! Not so good...

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Originally Posted by Setoutguy View Post
How can you not have purchased tires in over 20 years?

Today's all seasons are really no seasons.
To avoid buying tires, I just buy new cars. I do get pretty good mileage out of tires, even oem.


So have they downgraded all seasons over the years, or changed compounds to get more miles, but getting poorer results in snow?
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Old 12-09-2013, 07:56 PM
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Re: Snow!! Not so good...

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...or changed compounds to get more miles, but getting poorer results in snow?
Herein lies the rub...although not "universal", the quest for longer life and better fuel economy from tires may very well have a major effect on traction in messy weather as the tire material may be "harder" and less "sticky". And tread designs can have a major impact, too...what provides less rolling resistance for longer life and better fuel economy doesn't necessarily translate into great traction in snow, no matter that a tire might be considered "all weather".

The advice about not running them quite as firm inflation wise is good, too...I run at 38-39 psi in the warm months, but let them float down (due to cold air) at this time of year to something less than that. Mine are currently about 34-35, give or take.
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Old 12-09-2013, 08:12 PM
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Re: Snow!! Not so good...

I am certainly getting lots of ideas from everyone and thanks! Looks like tomorrow is going to be the "second test" for the Lattitudes here in Southeast Pa. I hope I am wrong but after having 4x4 trucks and SUV's with all types of tires, the last two sets being Mich.Ms/2's I gotta say these Lattitudes were not good on Saturday. At a dead stop on a hill, then accelerating like I had an egg under the gas pedal did not get it, then anything else I tried, even Sand Mode, made little difference. I thing the tread design although great on wet and dry surfaces just isn't gonna cut it in any type of snow. Try again tomorrow! Dave
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Old 12-09-2013, 08:19 PM
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Re: Snow!! Not so good...

My forteras so far have been great in snow. I only drove in about 6" but I'm confident I wont need snow tires.
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Old 12-09-2013, 08:22 PM
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Re: Snow!! Not so good...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_in_PA View Post
Herein lies the rub...although not "universal", the quest for longer life and better fuel economy from tires may very well have a major effect on traction in messy weather as the tire material may be "harder" and less "sticky". And tread designs can have a major impact, too...what provides less rolling resistance for longer life and better fuel economy doesn't necessarily translate into great traction in snow, no matter that a tire might be considered "all weather".

The advice about not running them quite as firm inflation wise is good, too...I run at 38-39 psi in the warm months, but let them float down (due to cold air) at this time of year to something less than that. Mine are currently about 34-35, give or take.
Thanks Jim. Like Dave, I think I'll be able to give the OEM's a try tomorrow. Since we don't get snow too often, and I'm retired, if they don't feel comfortable in the snow I'll just stay home when it happens. I set mine at 33 lbs cold year round as per the manual for the 18's.


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  #23  
Old 12-09-2013, 09:40 PM
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Re: Snow!! Not so good...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_in_PA View Post
Herein lies the rub...although not "universal", the quest for longer life and better fuel economy from tires may very well have a major effect on traction in messy weather as the tire material may be "harder" and less "sticky". And tread designs can have a major impact, too...what provides less rolling resistance for longer life and better fuel economy doesn't necessarily translate into great traction in snow, no matter that a tire might be considered "all weather".

The advice about not running them quite as firm inflation wise is good, too...I run at 38-39 psi in the warm months, but let them float down (due to cold air) at this time of year to something less than that. Mine are currently about 34-35, give or take.
I remember back in mid 70's and late 70's the Pirelli P3s and Michelin XZX's in 155 13 performed pretty well in snow. You could here them crunch the snow. Phoenix Strahlflex in 175 70 13 one of the first summer performance tires not so well in winter. XZX would maybe last 30K miles.

Jim is correct you now have low rolling resistance tires for fuel economy and tires that last 60K or 90K miles. This does effect their ability to perform in the snow.

Again all seaons are really no seasons.
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Old 12-10-2013, 12:49 PM
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Re: Snow!! Not so good...

Some pics of the Durango wheels and Nokian HK R2 SUV tires. Handled well again today!
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