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What's the deal with BWoody Performance?

6K views 28 replies 12 participants last post by  Jpeyatt 
#1 ·
I'm interested in a set of the BWoody performance sway bar end links. Their website says that they come with hardware, but not much else product information. There's a detailed installation "tutorial" on this website, that states the holes in the GC's control arms have to be enlarged, in order to install these links.

Since my GC is all of 8 months old, I don't really want to be making irreversible modifications, like drilling out holes in major components.

So, I decide to contact BWoody Performance, to verify the details on these parts, and find.....

A) they don't appear to have an e-mail address, to answer potential customer's questions;

B) they don't have a toll free phone line, to serve their customers.

OK, I'm not poor, so I bite the bullet, and call their long distance phone number, at my expense. Someone answers the phone promptly, I tell them that I'm looking for some product information, and they tell me that "they'll be right with me", and put me on hold. Again, I'm on MY dime, here. After 7-8 minutes on hold, I hung up.


Is this typical of their customer service?
 
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#2 ·
Get the blackops autoworks endlinks. Why put solid links in an independent suspension jeep? The blackops keeps the sway bars in stock height for better performance.
 
#6 ·
Get the blackops autoworks endlinks. Why put solid links in an independent suspension jeep? The blackops keeps the sway bars in stock height for better performance.

I did a search on the black-ops links, several days ago, and found someone who showed that their "ball end sockets" could easily be popped out of their sockets by simple hand twisting of the link. Secondly, this person also showed how when you torque the black-ops links according to their specified torque, 90 ft/lbs, I believe, the threads of the studs distort.

As a side note, if that torque spec is indeed correct, I don't understand it. There are cars whose lug nuts aren't tightened to that degree. IIRC, BMWs tighten their lugnuts to 75 ft./lbs. My wife's Jag's lugnut torque spec is only 92 ft./lbs.

Furthermore, the object of eliminating the ball socket style of end link, is to quicken the reaction of the sway bar to input. The ball socket has a certain amount of inherent movement, before it reacts to input. The "solid" bushing of the BWoody link eliminates that initial deflection. In all honesty, if I wasn't driving my Jeep in the winter, I'd be looking at a heim joint type of sway bar link. I have them on my Corvette, and they work just fine. I doubt that they'd enjoy the road salt, however.






You actually pay for long distance service?

I was wondering the same thing... :confused:

What does my telephone service have to do with my comments? I'm discussing questionable customer service. Think YOUR long distance is actually free? I would be willing to bet that you indeed are paying for it, it's just buried off in some "bundle" that you subscribe to. And back to my original sentiments, shuffling a potential customer off on hold, for 7-8 minutes, without AT LEAST checking back, to tell you that you haven't been forgotten, is kind of rude.
 
#4 ·
I have Bwoody end links on my 09. Never had an issue when ordering. I'm probably going with black ops links for my 15 altitude.


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#7 ·
If you believe that video that was done by bwoody...then so be it. Me and hundreds others have had both and the bwoodys are the ones that fail, squeak and rust. Not gonna argue the other points you make as the blackops links were tested and engineered by a suspension engineer.
 
#9 ·
I meant that video was done by bwoody......
Its widely known. Also...the stock links have "ball end sockets" for a reason....just like the blackops links. Just trying to help u avoid heartache.....
 
#10 ·
I meant that video was done by bwoody......
Its widely known. Also...the stock links have "ball end sockets" for a reason....just like the blackops links. Just trying to help u avoid heartache.....

OK, I wasn't aware of that.....

Although I've been an "automotive hobbyist" for well over 40 years, Jeeps are quite new to me. My expertise is more with sports/muscle cars, and because they, by nature, are lower and lighter, they tend to handle much better than my GC. Before purchasing my Jeep, I had only taken a 10-15 minute test ride, and I knew going in, it wasn't a "corner carver", but I didn't realize exactly how ponderous it was. I previously owned a couple of 4WD pickups, but they were smaller and lighter that the GC, hence more nimble and fun to drive.

I'm trying to make some improvements to my GC, so it drives better, and I'm researching the available upgrades. My original question in this topic, revolved around a particular supplier's customer service, or to me, my perceived lack of it. I would think if they were truly interested in maintaining a successful business, they would be somewhat more customer oriented. I was attempting to find out if this is their "normal", before I considered doing business with them.
 
#11 ·
It is from my experience. Multiple shops, phone numbers.....disappearing then reappearing. Ive been in the jeep srt game since 2006.
I can recommend the road magnet springs....mid drop or hybrid. They really improve the GC SRT and you can read more on that.
 
#14 ·
leadfoot4 said:
What does my telephone service have to do with my comments? I'm discussing questionable customer service. Think YOUR long distance is actually free? I would be willing to bet that you indeed are paying for it, it's just buried off in some "bundle" that you subscribe to. And back to my original sentiments, shuffling a potential customer off on hold, for 7-8 minutes, without AT LEAST checking back, to tell you that you haven't been forgotten, is kind of rude.
A little off topic, but...
If you already have high speed internet, check out Ooma VOIP phone service.
I've been using it for over a year now with no issues, I even have 2 lines for when the wife and I both work from home and have conference calls.
 
#15 ·
I did plenty of research here on these forums about both brands and decided to go with the Black Ops. I received them a few weeks ago and their customer service was great. There was a delay and they let me know it was because they didn't like the quality of the bushings they had left, so they wanted to order a new production batch and verify quality control before assembling and shipping out my set. The fact that they delayed my order to send me quality parts means a lot to me. It keeps me from paying a shop twice when I have to take them out because of an issue.

I came across the video as well doing my research and that had me skeptical about the Black Ops links. However I found no complaints on any of the boards or forums about failures like the video. Yes when I received my Black Ops endlinks I tried the same procedure in the video with no such luck of separating the link from the bushing.

On the other end the BW endlinks had plenty of well documented complaints and issues, and helped make my decision easier. Just do a search and the most common issue that will come up is regular greasing required, bushing deterioration, bushing failure, etc. I drive a lot for work (Realtor) so reliability is more of a priority than performance. I almost placed an order for the BW endlinks until I searched on this forum and came across the Black Ops comparison thread. Thankfully I did see that in time before placing my order.

I have the Summit 4x4 Quadra lift as well. I'm planning on upgrading both front and rear sway bars + Black Ops endlinks, and throwing on Hawk rotors and HPS pads when I can schedule a shop date. I'm pretty sure I will be happy after that for an SUV. Not exactly the BMW 535 I gave up, but anything is an improvement over stock.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I did plenty of research here on these forums about both brands and decided to go with the Black Ops. I received them a few weeks ago and their customer service was great. There was a delay and they let me know it was because they didn't like the quality of the bushings they had left, so they wanted to order a new production batch and verify quality control before assembling and shipping out my set. The fact that they delayed my order to send me quality parts means a lot to me. It keeps me from paying a shop twice when I have to take them out because of an issue.

I came across the video as well doing my research and that had me skeptical about the Black Ops links. However I found no complaints on any of the boards or forums about failures like the video. Yes when I received my Black Ops endlinks I tried the same procedure in the video with no such luck of separating the link from the bushing.

On the other end the BW endlinks had plenty of well documented complaints and issues, and helped make my decision easier. Just do a search and the most common issue that will come up is regular greasing required, bushing deterioration, bushing failure, etc. I drive a lot for work (Realtor) so reliability is more of a priority than performance. I almost placed an order for the BW endlinks until I searched on this forum and came across the Black Ops comparison thread. Thankfully I did see that in time before placing my order.

I have the Summit 4x4 Quadra lift as well. I'm planning on upgrading both front and rear sway bars + Black Ops endlinks, and throwing on Hawk rotors and HPS pads when I can schedule a shop date. I'm pretty sure I will be happy after that for an SUV. Not exactly the BMW 535 I gave up, but anything is an improvement over stock.

Your comments are interesting, however they also raise a couple of questions in my mind, the first being if you've installed the BlackOps links on your vehicle. If so, was there a noticeable difference in the roll stiffness?

I have a GC Limited, with the Quadra-Lift suspension, which has a 23MM rear sway bar as standard equipment. I recently replaced it with an SRT rear bar, which is approximately 0.070" thicker in OD. The difference, while subtle, is noticeable.

I'm not cheap, by any means, but before I spend $300 for a set of endlinks, I really want to know if they're going to actually do more that just look "trick". My desire to improve the handling of my GC is also somewhat compromised, as it's primary usage will be as a "winter driver". Ultimate cornering force isn't necessarily needed on a snow covered road, but is nice for those times when the roads dry out.

I'm presently 63 years of age, and have been a die-hard "car enthusiast" all of my life. Over the years, I've spent a considerable amount of money on aftermarket parts, in an effort to "improve" my vehicles. As you can imagine, some of it was money well spent, and some of it was simply wasted. At this point in my life, I want to minimize the waste.....
 
#18 ·
I think your main problem with handling is the QL. The QL is awesome for what it is....but IMHO its not built for handling/cornering. Theres a give and take in its capabilities. Its made to lower in sport mode and raise up to like 12" clearance for offroading.
 
#19 ·
I think your main problem with handling is the QL. The QL is awesome for what it is....but IMHO its not built for handling/cornering. Theres a give and take in its capabilities. Its made to lower in sport mode and raise up to like 12" clearance for offroading.

Yeah, I realize that's part of my problem, as well as part of my frustration. I live in the snow belt, and as previously mentioned, am going to use this GC primarily in the winter. IMHO, a limited slip rear axle is a necessity, to insure maximum winter traction. In a GC, the only way to get the LSD, is to order the ORA II package......as well as either the diesel V-6 or the Hemi V-8. I don't plan on any "off-roading", at least not on purpose, but that package was the only way to get the rear axle.

I don't understand why it isn't a "stand alone" option on a GC. Every other car/truck that I've owned, and special ordered, over the last 40 years, had an LSD either as standard or as an option....
 
#27 ·
I think they're out of stock, maybe shoot Chad an email and ask I'd be interested in some too


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