Go Back   Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum > Jeep Platform Discussion > Grand Cherokee - WK2 - > Suspension/Driveline/Brakes/Wheels/Tires

Join Jeep Garage Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
  #61  
Old 08-09-2011, 07:34 AM
Red G8R's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2011 5.7L WK2
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Whitby, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 904
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 2459
Red G8R has a reputation beyond reputeRed G8R has a reputation beyond reputeRed G8R has a reputation beyond reputeRed G8R has a reputation beyond reputeRed G8R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why little to no confirmed info on 2012 6sp auto?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xcespwr View Post
Just got back from the dealer. I can confirm it does show 1 through 6 on the EVIC (see attached picture).
Thanks so much for the confirmation.
Now I know positively that my 2011 still has a 5 speed post update (as I thought) and the 2012 has a new 6 speed as advertised.
__________________

__________________
Peter
2011 GC Overland, 4x4, 5.7L, Q-L, 730N, White/Beige. :thumbsup:
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 08-09-2011, 07:39 AM
Member
My Jeep: 2011 5.7L WK2
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chicago
Posts: 175
Thanks: 8
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 1460
capitalst is on a distinguished road
Re: Why little to no confirmed info on 2012 6sp auto?

I'm wondering how the new tranny feels and also what RPM's your at in 6th gear at around 60 mph compared to the 2011.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 08-09-2011, 08:17 AM
sined240's Avatar
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 358
Thanks: 7
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 1964
sined240 has a reputation beyond reputesined240 has a reputation beyond reputesined240 has a reputation beyond reputesined240 has a reputation beyond reputesined240 has a reputation beyond reputesined240 has a reputation beyond reputesined240 has a reputation beyond reputesined240 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why little to no confirmed info on 2012 6sp auto?

correct me if i am wrong but the 2011s have the same setup, the only difference being that the evic displays D instead of 6. its not that 2011 is a 5spd vs 6spd on the 2012.
__________________
2011 Grand Cherokee Overland Summit 4x4
5.7 V8 MDS HEMI
Mineral Gray Ext / Saddle Int

2012 Town & Country Touring-L
3.6 V6 VVT Pentastar
Dark Charcoal Ext / Black Int
Driver Conv / Sunroof / Dual DVD / 730N RHR

Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 08-09-2011, 09:00 AM
ColdCase's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,446
Thanks: 0
Thanked 27 Times in 26 Posts
Rep Power: 26467
ColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why little to no confirmed info on 2012 6sp auto?

The short answer is that you can manually select five ratios (or gears) with the 2011 and six with the 2012.

The 011 and 012 are the same transmission mechanically. They differ in software and torque converter. They both use the same six ratios (3.00 - 1.76 - 1.50 - 1.00 - 0.75 - 0.67) plus reverse.

The 2012 is programmed to shift through six ratios and you can select any of the six. => marketed as a six speed

The 2011 is programmed to shift through five ratios (but one ratio is different different depending on up or kick down so is actually uses the same six ratios as the 2012). You can select only 5 of the 6 ratios. => marketed as a multispeed or 5 speed depending on year. [correction, you can, in the end select all six ratios, but one set of 5 on the upshift, another set of 5 on the down shift]

There may be a difference in the marketing definitions, and the technology... so just think of "six speed" as simply a name for a certain transmission configuration.

Manual control doesn't allow you to specify a specific gear, just the top gear limit the transmission uses. Otherwise the transmission shifts as usual.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 08-09-2011, 09:28 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 182
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 1494
vikingdave is on a distinguished road
Re: Why little to no confirmed info on 2012 6sp auto?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCase View Post
The short answer is that you can manually select five ratios (or gears) with the 2011 and six with the 2012.

The 011 and 012 are the same transmission mechanically. They differ in software and torque converter. They both use the same six ratios (3.00 - 1.76 - 1.50 - 1.00 - 0.75 - 0.67) plus reverse.

The 2012 is programmed to shift through six ratios and you can select any of the six. => marketed as a six speed

The 2011 is programmed to shift through five ratios (but one ratio is different different depending on up or kick down so is actually uses the same six ratios as the 2012). You can select only 5 of the 6 ratios. => marketed as a multispeed or 5 speed depending on year.

There may be a difference in the marketing deffinitions, and the technology... so just think of "six speed" as simply a name for a certain transmission configuration.

Manual control doesn't allow you to specify a specific gear, just the top gear limit the transmission uses. Otherwise the transmission shifts as usual.
This is incorrect. I confirmed just last night that I can manually shift through all six gears on my updated 2011. "2" and "3" are very close together, but still manually selectable. I still don't know why the 2012 would show "6" after a downshift at highway speeds, I wonder if there is an RPM diference between what is labeled "6" and "D" on the 2012's ? If there isn't than I would just assume that the change was just to make things in-line with how it is marketed. I definitely have six manually selectable gears that all show different RPM's on my 2011 and have confirmed this several times.

My six manually selectable gears read "1,2,3,4,5,D" and all have different RPMs at the same speed.

Here's my theory on what is going on:

- 2011's and 2012's are mechanically identical (Confirmed by someone in this thread)
- Both allow for all six gears to be selected manually after the update (Confirmed by me)
- Updated 2011's immediately shift into 5th gear at highway speed when you downshift from "D", with an RPM increase (Confirmed by me)
- 2012's show a "6" and don't immediately show an RPM increase when you downshift from "D" because "6" is the highest gear (Can someone confirm this ?)

I think it's marketing trickery, in the end I could care less what the EVIC says, the real question is what are the ratios and how many gears are there ? I still don't know why in any six speed "6" and "D" would be different.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 08-09-2011, 09:49 AM
jgc4ever's Avatar
Senior Member
My Jeep: 2012 5.7L WK2
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,212
Thanks: 0
Thanked 78 Times in 69 Posts
Rep Power: 1160276
jgc4ever has a reputation beyond reputejgc4ever has a reputation beyond reputejgc4ever has a reputation beyond reputejgc4ever has a reputation beyond reputejgc4ever has a reputation beyond reputejgc4ever has a reputation beyond reputejgc4ever has a reputation beyond reputejgc4ever has a reputation beyond reputejgc4ever has a reputation beyond reputejgc4ever has a reputation beyond reputejgc4ever has a reputation beyond repute
Garage
Re: Why little to no confirmed info on 2012 6sp auto?

Manual (using the autostick) may be different than when left in Automatic mode. I think I read this before about the Grand Cherokee. Sorry, I don't know more nor can I confirm this.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 08-09-2011, 10:54 AM
ColdCase's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,446
Thanks: 0
Thanked 27 Times in 26 Posts
Rep Power: 26467
ColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why little to no confirmed info on 2012 6sp auto?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vikingdave View Post
This is incorrect. .
Have you confirmed yet that the shifts are selected differently pre and post update? The shift characteristics you observed are consistent with what you would expect to see see with the so called 5 speed. At highway speed in D, when you tap left, the transmission immediately downshifts.... but there is more to it.

The way the transmission shifts manually as compared to automatically and the gear labeling makes for easily misunderstanding which ratio actually being used and how it correlates to the indication. There is probably a good reason for it but easily misleading as sometime 5 indicated is actually gear 5, sometimes 5 indicated is actually what would otherwise be considered transmission gear 4.... In other words, what is displayed in the EVIC may not correlate to what you think is the gear currently in use.

After looking at the manual, it appears I was mistaken about not being able to select the extra underdrive gear (so called 2 prime in some descriptions).

"On vehicles equipped with the 5.7L engine, use of ERS also enables an additional underdrive gear which is not normally used during throughgear accelerations. .. ERS 1, 2, and 3 are underdrive gears; ERS 4 is direct drive. ERS 5 (Overdrive) is the same as the normal 4th gear. [note here that normal through drive accelerations use two underdrive ratios, one direct and two overdrive ratios/gears]

When in the DRIVE position in fifth gear [highway speeds], the first tap to the left (-) will downshift the transmission and display 5 (ERS 5 is the same as normal fourth gear). Another tap to the left (-) will shift the transmission down to ERS 4 (direct gear)." It continues down from there... (ending up using one over drive, one direct and three underdrive ratios, one of those underdrives not used otherwise )"

Note that when in drive and the transmission is operating any of the other 4 so called normal through-gears the first tap to the left does not downshift, it simply displays the current gear. It is only when you tap at a speed where the transmission has already shifted to its top gear that you get the down shift.

So the gear the transmission selects when you tap the ERS will depend on the starting condition... which explains why you are seeing a rpm increase when you tap left at highway speeds. You are actually shifting to what normally would be 4, but it will be displayed as 5 in the EVIC..

nice and simple... not

Maybe we've had a seven speed all along ...

Anyone know what the 2012 owners manual say in its corresponding section? The 2012 manual doesn't appear to be available for download yet.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 08-09-2011, 11:02 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 182
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 1494
vikingdave is on a distinguished road
Re: Why little to no confirmed info on 2012 6sp auto?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCase View Post
Have you confirmed yet that the shifts are selected differently pre and post update?

The way the transmission shifts manually as compared to automatically and the gear labeling makes for misunderstanding which ratio you are actually using. Sometime 5 displayed is 5 , sometimes 5 displayed is actually 4....

After looking at the manual, it appears I was mistaken about not being able to select the extra underdrive gear (so called 2 prime in some descriptions).

"On vehicles equipped with the 5.7L engine, use of ERS also enables an additional underdrive gear which is not normally used during throughgear
accelerations. .. ERS 1, 2, and 3 are underdrive gears; ERS 4 is direct drive. ERS 5 (Overdrive) is the same as the normal 4th gear.

When in the DRIVE position (transmission operating) in fifth gear, the first tap to the left (-) will downshift the transmission and display 5 (ERS 5 is the same as normal fourth gear). Another tap to the left (-) will shift the transmission down to ERS 4 (direct gear)." It continues down from there.

Note that when in drive and any of the other 4 so called gear the first tap to the left does not downshift, it simply displays the current gear. It is only when you tap at a speed where the transmission has already shifted to its top gear.

So the gear the transmission selects when you tap the ERS will depend on the starting condition... which explains why you are seeing a rpm increase when you tap left at highway speeds. You are actually shifting to what normally would be 4, but it will be displayed as 5 in the EVIC..

nice and simple... not

Maybe we've had a seven speed all along ...

Anyone know what the 2012 owners manual say in its corresponding section? The 2012 manual doesn't appear to be available for download yet.
Six gears on updated 2011 labeled as 1,2,3,4,5,D all manually selectable with unique RPMs at any given speed, I understand everything else that you mentioned. I don't think that they were all selectable before the upgrade but I could be wrong. Definitely not seven gears though, just six.

From your post ...

"Note that when in drive and any of the other 4 so called gear the first tap to the left does not downshift, it simply displays the current gear. It is only when you tap at a speed where the transmission has already shifted to its top gear."

When I am in "D" at 65MPH on the highway and tap to the left I do get a different gear, a "5" is displayed and my RPMs increase.

I suspect that 2012's just show a "6" and stay in the same gear, where my 2011 shows a "5" and downshifts. I want my transmission to downshift on the first click to the left, when it wont put me in an over-RPM condition.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 08-09-2011, 11:45 AM
ColdCase's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,446
Thanks: 0
Thanked 27 Times in 26 Posts
Rep Power: 26467
ColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond reputeColdCase has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why little to no confirmed info on 2012 6sp auto?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vikingdave View Post

When I am in "D" at 65MPH on the highway and tap to the left I do get a different gear, a "5" is displayed and my RPMs increase.
Just saying that tapping the selector to the left at highways speed and seeing the transmission downshift is the same for all 2011 5.7 JGCs regardless of TSB level. What the transmission does is shifts out of second overdrive to first OD (otherwise known as 4th gear) and displays 5, perhaps because its the 5th gear for the downshift sequencing. So if the transmission is in second overdrive (D), and you use ERS on the downshift you can use all six transmission speeds by continuing to tap to the left.... but that's the same as all 2011s and probably years before.

This transmission has always had six speeds available and, for at least 10 years, used all six one form or another. (three under-drives, one direct, and two over-drives). Select tow haul, it turns the transmission into a 4 speed....
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 08-09-2011, 12:08 PM
Red G8R's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2011 5.7L WK2
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Whitby, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 904
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 2459
Red G8R has a reputation beyond reputeRed G8R has a reputation beyond reputeRed G8R has a reputation beyond reputeRed G8R has a reputation beyond reputeRed G8R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why little to no confirmed info on 2012 6sp auto?

I'm still not convinced.

So what you're you're saying is that with the "old" 5 speed, shifting from D to 5 changes rpm. Then with the "new" 6 speed, no change in rpm should be noted if they are the same. If any rpm change is noted with the 6 spd, then what's the reason?

Until that's confirmed, I feel they are different transmissions.
__________________
Peter
2011 GC Overland, 4x4, 5.7L, Q-L, 730N, White/Beige. :thumbsup:
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 08-09-2011, 05:00 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 182
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 1494
vikingdave is on a distinguished road
Re: Why little to no confirmed info on 2012 6sp auto?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red G8R View Post
I'm still not convinced.

So what you're you're saying is that with the "old" 5 speed, shifting from D to 5 changes rpm. Then with the "new" 6 speed, no change in rpm should be noted if they are the same. If any rpm change is noted with the 6 spd, then what's the reason?

Until that's confirmed, I feel they are different transmissions.
I'm saying that with the old one you absolutely do get an RPM increase and an indicated "5" when downshifting from "D" to "5" at highway speed.

I'm asking if someone that has a 2012 can see if an RPM drop comes when you go from "D" to "6". I just don't see how the 2012's would have unique ratios for 1,2,3,4,5,6,D that would be a seven speed.

My suspicion is that everything is the same except that the 2012's don't actually pick a different gear when downshifting from "D" to "6", and that it's just a difference that was put in to make people think that the transmission is different since they changed their marketing. If I'm right than the only difference (other than the pretty "6" on your dash) is that you have to downshift twice with the 2012's from "D" before it does anything.

I could be completely wrong about this, just wanting someone with a 2012 to confirm the behavior.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 08-09-2011, 05:04 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 182
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 1494
vikingdave is on a distinguished road
Re: Why little to no confirmed info on 2012 6sp auto?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCase View Post
Just saying that tapping the selector to the left at highways speed and seeing the transmission downshift is the same for all 2011 5.7 JGCs regardless of TSB level. What the transmission does is shifts out of second overdrive to first OD (otherwise known as 4th gear) and displays 5, perhaps because its the 5th gear for the downshift sequencing. So if the transmission is in second overdrive (D), and you use ERS on the downshift you can use all six transmission speeds by continuing to tap to the left.... but that's the same as all 2011s and probably years before.

This transmission has always had six speeds available and, for at least 10 years, used all six one form or another. (three under-drives, one direct, and two over-drives). Select tow haul, it turns the transmission into a 4 speed....
Sounds like your saying the same thing I am. I'm just making things a little more straight forward by referring to the available gears as 1-6, while I still don't really see how useful 2 and 3 are since they are almost exactly the same.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2012 Wrangler Info jeepin dave Wrangler-YJ, TJ & JK 18 10-02-2011 04:33 PM
I'm surprised we have no further info on the 2012 6 speed auto capitalst Suspension/Driveline/Brakes/Wheels/Tires 17 07-18-2011 01:48 AM
2012 WK2 Info jeepin dave Grand Cherokee - WK2 - 2 03-21-2011 08:27 PM
Good Auto Warranty Info. jeepgcoman Grand Cherokee - WK 0 12-28-2010 05:32 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 - JeepGarage.Org
The Jeep Grand Cherokee Owners Community