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  #25  
Old 07-24-2011, 05:55 PM
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Re: WK2 SRT Brembo brake kit on an Overland

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Originally Posted by Mako View Post
Yes thats true but I don't think wheel offset will be the issue, although until anyone has some hard facts on specs for OEM '12 parts it's all just speculation.

I still think that the '12 OEM Brembos should clear the Overland 20" wheels, (backspacing may be an issue), and I can't imagine why they wouldn't bolt right up to regular Overland spindles with both rigs running 20" OEM wheel packages.

its all guessing right now...but 6 pot brembos are pretty large. Joel is moneen. His point that the back of the wheels does have a bearing on fitting the brembos. I have seen wheels spoked with the bqack side hallowed out to save weight, I have seen them machined down etc. AND...the BREMBOS DEFINATELY do NOT bolt up to the non-SRT spindles.....that has already been confirmed by an SRT engineer. The spindles are different again because the wk2's and SRT's calipers have different bolt spacing just like last generations.
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  #26  
Old 07-25-2011, 01:40 AM
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Re: WK2 SRT Brembo brake kit on an Overland

The bigger brakes won't net you shorter stopping distances, I've had plenty of discussions about this time and time again over a span of several different cars. Big brake kits are typically only for race applications when you need to stop your vehicle on a track from 100-40-80-25-60-15 and so on... the larger brakes give you a larger surface area of which to dissapate the heat energy and prolong your system until the effects of brake fade start to errode performance.

The "mushy" feeling you have in your JGC are mostly attributed to rubber brake lines and OE brake pads. If you want to have better feeling brakes, the best cost effective way is to swap out for SS lines, upgraded pads, and some better fluid. oh also tires. Tires are in fact the only contact that your vehicle has with the road, crappy tires on a 16 pot 16" brake system won't do crap.

In short, until you feel the effects of brake fade, you don't need to upgrade your calipers/rotors. And even when you do, a simple pad upgrade will normally do the trick. If you're just doing it for aesthetic purposes then all my arguments are moot, and you can carry on.
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Old 07-25-2011, 02:28 AM
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Re: WK2 SRT Brembo brake kit on an Overland

^^^^so let me get this straight....put the same wheels/tires on two jeeps...but put brembos on one and keep the other stock and they will stop in the same distance? LOL....I had the exact scenario with my jeep. I switched to the 20" rims/performance tires...then I added the brembo conversion and now my jeep stops like 20' shorter than before......
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  #28  
Old 07-25-2011, 03:28 AM
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Re: WK2 SRT Brembo brake kit on an Overland

frydryce is correct.
2 stock JGC's with everything the same except one has performance brakes, they will both stop the same distance, however over several stops the performance brakes will start to win out purely due to better heat dissipation.
Tyres will make all the difference, not the brakes. This is one pet peeve I have with people who will upgrade the performance and braking, but buy $100 tyres. Without the good rubber the power and performance brakes will never see their potential.
A stock JGC with slicks will out brake a JGC with performance brakes and stock rubber.
I have also had this argument many times it is all about the laws of physics.
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Old 07-25-2011, 06:22 AM
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Re: WK2 SRT Brembo brake kit on an Overland

Lol ya... Brembos won't increase your braking performance... Right... This thread is officially a joke...
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Old 07-25-2011, 06:53 AM
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Re: WK2 SRT Brembo brake kit on an Overland

Did you even bother reading what was said ?
May be you should learn basic physics and do some research.
If you do not agree then tell us why you think you are correct, rather than calling the comments here a joke.
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Old 07-25-2011, 08:46 AM
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Re: WK2 SRT Brembo brake kit on an Overland

As a driver, I am not merely interested in stopping distances, but braking over elongated driving conditions, sometimes spirited, frequently on alpine highways, and sometimes trail and others with a 5k lb trailer load. Temps here range from well below zero to over 100 F.

Enhanced modulation and bite, and decreased fade are exactly what I'm seeking from a potential Brembo upgrade, which I agree should include less elastic lines, semi metallic pads, good bleed, and stickier rubber.

Carry on.
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  #32  
Old 07-25-2011, 09:25 AM
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Re: WK2 SRT Brembo brake kit on an Overland

If you believe that braking to the point of just before locking up the tires gives you shorter stopping distances, then upgraded brakes will give a skilled driver the feel of the edge and more consistent performance as they warm up that he could exploit. Otherwise better brakes will provide more consistent performance and feel, especially when used hard. Even one hard stop heats up the brakes as you slow down and may change the brake pressure/lock point.

When you guys switched to Brembo brakes, I'm sure you also use a different pad material. You can get a significant difference in look/feel and consistent performance just by simply swapping pads. There are endless arguments about whether drilling or slotting rotors for the street makes any difference. In any case, regardless of test data and theory, if you feel that it makes a difference, you won't be satisfied without.

The arguments are endless about the benefit the entire brembo rotor/caliber/pad is on the street for the average driver. Some will argue they make things worse. Certainly where fading is an issue, like when the driver is riding the brakes on a long downhill, larger brakes should be better. These jeeps come with decent brakes, so the panic stopping power difference between them and an upgrade is not as much as years ago and don’t forget that we are now in the realm of ABS... so if you just mash on the brakes hard enough to lock the tires up, where the rubber meets the road is where braking performance is defined, regardless of the brake calipers and rotors. If you are riding the brakes so much they get hot enough that they won't lock the tires, anything that improves heat dissipation will help.

So I can rationalize upgraded brakes being a benefit to a skilled driver, but perhaps not for the typical street situations.
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Old 07-25-2011, 09:26 AM
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Re: WK2 SRT Brembo brake kit on an Overland

Yes, I read you whole post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENFORCER View Post
2 stock JGC's with everything the same except one has performance brakes, they will both stop the same distance
This is incorrect. The difference between WK brakes and WKSRT8 brakes are CLEARLY noticeable the first time you touch the brake. To say otherwise makes me think you've never felt the difference. Its HUGE. Like Scott said, it took 20' off of his braking paired with performance tires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENFORCER View Post
however over several stops the performance brakes will start to win out purely due to better heat dissipation.
Well i'm pretty sure most people use the brakes more than once while driving... With that said, again.. they're better than stock just for their heat dissipation factor if nothing else, although unlikely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENFORCER View Post
A stock JGC with slicks will out brake a JGC with performance brakes and stock rubber.
Incorrect. If both tire sets stick the same, the performance brakes will bring you to a stop much sooner. But in that case you're comparing tires and brakes, not just brakes.

If you want an even field for testing tire grip, then put stock tires against performance tires with the same brake setup on the same vehicle

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENFORCER View Post
This is one pet peeve I have with people who will upgrade the performance and braking, but buy $100 tires.
Nobody was talking about $100 tires, and most of us have quality tires. If someone said, I want to upgrade my brakes but leave everything else stock, then I would agree with you. But lets just assume they're smart enough to know that suspension, tires, wheels all have a hand in braking improvements not just the brakes themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENFORCER View Post
May be you should learn basic physics and do some research.
Well physics tells me that a larger surface area with more pressure distributed across said surface area will perform better. But i'm not a physics professor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moosehead View Post
Enhanced modulation and bite, and decreased fade are exactly what I'm seeking from a potential Brembo upgrade, which I agree should include less elastic lines, semi metallic pads, good bleed, and stickier rubber.
With all of those factored in you will have a great upgrade. better than stock WK breaks with SS lines, good pads, and good tires.

Not to say that those wouldn't be better than a stock set with no upgrades.
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  #34  
Old 07-25-2011, 11:31 AM
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Re: WK2 SRT Brembo brake kit on an Overland

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENFORCER View Post
Did you even bother reading what was said ?
May be you should learn basic physics and do some research.
If you do not agree then tell us why you think you are correct, rather than calling the comments here a joke.

its no joke....when i switched to the brembo brakes...I did some pretty exact testing to see exactly what i was getting. EVERYTHING on my Jeep was the same for all tests except for the rotors, calipers and the rear pads. I had wagner thermoquiet pads on the fronts of both brembos and stock wk brakes...the only different was I used ceramic pads on the rear of the stock wk and stillen pads on the rear of the brembos. Both events I used the same technique...emergency braking. The stopping distance from 60 mph for the stock wk brakes was 145 ft(best of three) to 152 ft. The best stopping distance on the same road, same spot, same weather etc for the brembo equipped brakes was a best of 125 ft and was never above 130 ft even after 10-12 hard braking events.

This above test was on 2007 and JeepGarage wasnt even around then. My ytest was revealed on another forum that has since lost the info due to a software switch. Most people here know what forum Im speaking of.
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  #35  
Old 07-25-2011, 11:54 AM
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Re: WK2 SRT Brembo brake kit on an Overland

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
Why would the brembos not bolt right up to WK2 spindles? Keep in mind the WK2 Limiteds and Overlands are both running 20" wheels, same as the WK2 SRT8's. I don't see a clearance issue like you had with your WK w/ it's smaller non SRT8 wheels.

It wasnt just the smaller wheels with the wk. It was the bolt spacing on the brembos. It was larger than with the stock wk calipers. the wk2 uses what looks like the exact same calipers as the wk....and as last gen wk's....the 2012 Jeep SRT has different spindles/knuckles than the wk2 nonsrt because of the bolt spacing on the brembos. That has been confirmed by an SRt engineer on lxforums.
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  #36  
Old 07-25-2011, 07:49 PM
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Re: WK2 SRT Brembo brake kit on an Overland

Scott, while I do not doubt your figures, your testing would not be accurate, unless you could replicate the exact same conditions for both tests. This is road surface, weather and car. You should ask mythbusters to test it and you will find that I am right.
As for you moneen, I was very specific as to what I was saying, you are putting different scenarios into play, when I said ONE STOP with the exact same setup would result in the SAME STOPPING DISTANCES. The surface area on the brakes is negligible if the tires do not provide enough grip, why can you not understand this basic physics.
They tires is what will determine the stopping distances, as this is what is creating the grip.
I have the 6/4 Brembos on my car and they will not stop my car any shorter than if I had stock brakes, from a single stop from say 60mph if everything is equal. An before you ask why I have Brembos, they cam stock on my car, and I track it on a regular basis.
I will not bother having this discussion anymore, as you seem set in your beliefs. I also think you are the type of people who think the plane on a treadmill will not take off. http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=428718
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