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  #37  
Old 07-25-2011, 09:32 PM
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Re: WK2 SRT Brembo brake kit on an Overland

I did the test one day apart, same time, same exact weather on the exact spot on the road. I found two light poles, measured the distance between them etc. It was just about as good as any non-scientific person could do. I dont know what else I can add or say.
The difference is huge in the jeep as well. I challenge you to find a jeep wk with srt wheels and a jeep srt8 and see for yoursself. In documented tests by various magazines and websites...the SRT8 stopped a good 20-25ft less from 60 mph.
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  #38  
Old 07-25-2011, 10:02 PM
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Re: WK2 SRT Brembo brake kit on an Overland

In addition to some good Brembo info herein, this thread also has:





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  #39  
Old 07-26-2011, 08:44 AM
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Re: WK2 SRT Brembo brake kit on an Overland

heres a close up of the wk2 SRT8 front brembos. Notice how close the caliper is to the spokes of the wheel. Also notice the design of the wheel to accomodate the brembos...
[IMG][/IMG]
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  #40  
Old 07-26-2011, 09:08 AM
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I was looking at same clearances on the 2011 Overland WK2, will post photos later this morning. The Overland HD brakes and rotors clear the 20" Overland wheels with plenty of room both laterally to spokes and to diameter of wheel. If anything, my first thought was bigger rotors would help a ton. The Brembos definitely look beefier/wider/taller than the HD calipers as Scott and Moneen have said..
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  #41  
Old 07-26-2011, 09:15 AM
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Re: WK2 SRT Brembo brake kit on an Overland

Quote:
Originally Posted by moosehead View Post
I was looking at same clearances on the 2011 Overland WK2, will post photos later this morning. The Overland HD brakes and rotors clear the 20" Overland wheels with plenty of room both laterally to spokes and to diameter of wheel. If anything, my first thought was bigger rotors would help a ton. The Brembos definitely look beefier/wider/taller than the HD calipers as Scott and Moneen have said..
That's because they are. And enforcers logic is all over the place. What you're saying is that they will work better when really being worked, while running performance tires etc. Which is exactly what I'm saying.. I don't understand how someone can say they are zero improvement over stock? That's bullshit ad it doesn't take a scientist to figure that out.

I'll take the Brembos off your car (I'm assuming LX?) since you don't appreciate the difference they make.

Anywayssss I think I made my point. I do not agree that in exact scenario but one with and one without brembos that there is zero difference. It's just plain not possible. And I believe Scotts experience, I remember reading his posts years ago about it. And I believe my own experience going from mine with 22" toyos to stock SRT with runflats. Even the SRT with shitty run flats dominated my braking distance. It's not hard to tell if one is better than the other.

As for overland wheel fitment on WK2 SRT8 Brembos, I hope it works out for those planing a swap. Check where we've told you to check. That's all.

Enforcer: agree to disagree. I can't bring myself to accept your response.
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  #42  
Old 07-26-2011, 09:38 AM
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The same brake upgrade technology and results apply towards Mountain Biking (MTB), with critical handling and safety benefits to the pilot.

Presuming rubber and suspension are optimized, big braking improvements can be had with: beefier larger/multi pot calipers, larger diameter rotors, composite materials, braided hoses, sintered pads, complex master cylinders, and tight tolerance seals/valves/orings. Combined, the above help provide for increased stopping power, heat dissapation, and efficiencies in variable and crappy conditions. Better systems stay airtight and need less re-bleeding. Improved modulation, power, and less fade creates confidence, handling benefits, and speed.

Interestingly, MTB also has an Italian Brake Manufacturer with leading market performance - Formula Brakes.

There's good reason Brembos show up on many high performance and track vehicles, both OEM and aftermarket.

I would suggest the only legit con to the Brembos is the high price of entry.

YMMV.
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Old 07-26-2011, 09:44 AM
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Re: WK2 SRT Brembo brake kit on an Overland

Quote:
Originally Posted by moosehead View Post
The same brake upgrade technology and results apply towards Mountain Biking (MTB), with critical handling and safety benefits to the pilot.

Presuming rubber and suspension are optimized, big braking improvements can be had with: beefier larger/multi pot calipers, larger diameter rotors, composite materials, braided hoses, sintered pads, complex master cylinders, and tight tolerance seals/valves/orings. Combined, the above help provide for increased stopping power, heat dissapation, and efficiencies in variable and crappy conditions. Better systems stay airtight and need less re-bleeding. Improved modulation, power, and less fade creates confidence, handling benefits, and speed.

Interestingly, MTB also has an Italian Brake Manufacturer with leading market performance - Formula Brakes.

There's good reason Brembos show up on many high performance and track vehicles, both OEM and aftermarket.

I would suggest the only legit con to the Brembos is the high price of entry.

YMMV.

I agree with ya, Moose.
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  #44  
Old 07-26-2011, 01:40 PM
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Re: WK2 SRT Brembo brake kit on an Overland

speculation on the wheels......not the spindles
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  #45  
Old 07-26-2011, 02:13 PM
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Re: WK2 SRT Brembo brake kit on an Overland

Photos from 2011 Overland with HD Brakes and 20" Oland Wheel:

Front Wheel & Caliper


Front Caliper Clearance to Spoke


Front Caliper Clearance to Spoke = about a single finger width


Rear Caliper Clearance to Spoke = two finger width
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  #46  
Old 07-27-2011, 01:40 AM
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Re: WK2 SRT Brembo brake kit on an Overland

Amen man. I've driven 4 different cars, and had this discussion on plenty of forums, however Brembo has done a wonderful job at marketing to the mass public making them believe that more pots = shorter stopping distances. Anyone here who actually tracks their car (looks like its only Enforcer and myself on this thread) would know that big brakes do not help with the first or even 4th stop. It's when you get to the 10th stop coming down from 90mph into a downhill turn that you will thank yourself for the upgraded braking system.

As long as you have ABS, the real stopping variable is the only thing that actually makes contact with the earth and that is rubber and road. What you "feel" is just a function of bite which better brakes provide. If you upgraded OEM brakes up to Brembo's your shorter stopping distances may just be a function of quicker braking response time due to the SS lines and more aggressive pad material, has nothing to do with more pots. You will feel a much harder "tug" because of all this, also your "tug" will also be a function of the caliper grabbing at a further distance from the spindle (wiki torque formula). Again, read your stopping distances have nothing to do with how many pistons the brakes have or the size of them.

The data is out there - try listening to people who had modded their cars and tracked them for years, however if you still wish to remain brainwashed by brembo (which is NOT the best braking system out there) then so be it. I'd have more luck convincing a ricer that the color red does not add hp to the car. But like I said in my earlier post, if you're doing it for aesthetic purposes go for it. If you're looking for performance then all you need are SS lines and pads, maybe rotors (please don'e get crossdrilled and slotted - perhaps this is another schooling lesson as well).

From my experience with cars and forums it seems like brakes are some sort of holy grail. Everytime this discussion comes up cold hard facts are always fought with anecdotes and name calling. It's almost worse than criticizing someone's religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENFORCER View Post
Scott, while I do not doubt your figures, your testing would not be accurate, unless you could replicate the exact same conditions for both tests. This is road surface, weather and car. You should ask mythbusters to test it and you will find that I am right.
As for you moneen, I was very specific as to what I was saying, you are putting different scenarios into play, when I said ONE STOP with the exact same setup would result in the SAME STOPPING DISTANCES. The surface area on the brakes is negligible if the tires do not provide enough grip, why can you not understand this basic physics.
They tires is what will determine the stopping distances, as this is what is creating the grip.
I have the 6/4 Brembos on my car and they will not stop my car any shorter than if I had stock brakes, from a single stop from say 60mph if everything is equal. An before you ask why I have Brembos, they cam stock on my car, and I track it on a regular basis.
I will not bother having this discussion anymore, as you seem set in your beliefs. I also think you are the type of people who think the plane on a treadmill will not take off. http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=428718
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:56 AM
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Re: WK2 SRT Brembo brake kit on an Overland

Yeah here in Oz, I had a Ford XR6 Turbo (manual/stick)in 2004 that had 2piston performance brakes (PBR). They were fine for the road, but I used to track at least once a month. After less then 4 laps the brakes were cooked., then upgraded to a f6 Typhoon that was the same model, same weight, more power and had the optional (+$2700) 6/4 pot brembos. I now drive a FPV GT-E that is more like your AMG E55.

I could easily get 10 laps, but the car did not stop in any shorter distances than my xr6 turbo. This is because both cars ran the same tyres and both could exceed the grip level of the TYRES.
The ONLY difference the bigger brakes gave me was it would do it for longer. Usually the road tyres got shagged after 10 laps, as I used to run my road rubber, before the brakes did.

When I bolted a set of slicks and at race pace, the PBR's would last only 4 corners, and the brembos only 3 laps, this is because the TYRES gave the extra stopping power, putting extra heat into the brakes and they exceeded the performance of the brakes quickly. If I had a full race brake setup, I would get 20+ laps.
This is a practical example of what performance brakes will do for a car. If your brakes can exceed the traction of the tyres, performance brakes will not shorten the stopping distance, only better tyres.
Does this make it clear ?
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:28 AM
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Re: WK2 SRT Brembo brake kit on an Overland

This is the comment that led to this discussion and I will maintain my position on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ENFORCER View Post
2 stock JGC's with everything the same except one has performance brakes, they will both stop the same distance
You two have spun it into something else entirely. Nobody was ever questioning these types of situations, or questioning what tires/suspension upgrades that were going with the BB upgrade, Nobody said that Brembos were the best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENFORCER View Post
performance brakes will not shorten the stopping distance, only better tyres.
Does this make it clear ?
I think what you mean is, only performance brakes AND good tires will shorten your stopping distance. And nobody has ever disagreed with that.

And after looking at the pictures Moose posted, I doubt the '11 Overland wheels will clear the Brembos.
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