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Grand Willys project

383K views 2K replies 163 participants last post by  CNY_WK2 
#1 · (Edited)
This project has been brewing in my head for many years and been slowing gather parts and building a workshop and sheds to be able to do it.

The plan is to build a bit of a hotrod from using all the running gear, wiring, instruments, seats etc for one donor vehicle as much as possible.


Back in December 2007 I bought a Willys Pickup off eBay but it was a year before I got it home as had nowhere to store it. After much jumping through hoops with the council I built my workshop to house it.



After much looking and watching insurance auctions I was finally able to get a donor for the project. Ended up with a 2008 WH/WK Grand Cherokee with a 5.7 Hemi. It was first registered in 2009 and 12 months later T boned by a Harley rider doing a 100 mph! Hit it so hard that the foot well locked the throttle and he steered off the road into a paddock until he hit a tree.


One day these two will become one.


Getting the Grand into the workshop.


The Grand is in place ready for lots of measurements and then the strip down can begin!


Got a start on the project this week. Started by taking every measurement I could think of so I can setup all the suspension under the Willys when it gets transferred across. Also been labeling every wiring plug that I have found so far. Done the whole engine bay and have it all disconnected ready for removing once I can get to the others ends of the harness under the dash. Also unbolted every panel that can come off and removed the seats.


Being careful not to damage any of the trim when taking it apart in case I can sell any that I don't use.


Still go a few more things like the chrome roof bars, rear bumper and tail-lights to go outside.


Airbag under the dash cover was quite fiddly to get out.


What it looks like under the dash with the top cover off. Going to be fun getting all that into my Willys Pickup later.
 
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#1,410 ·
Some pictures to go with the video.


All the contenders lined up in a row! Left to right and just out of shot is Dark Amber by DNA paints and is a candy. 2016-2018 Jeep Tank Green. A green I saw on a 32 Ford Roadster. Jeep Sting-Gray, ( also know as Ceramic Gray or Destroyer Gray ). Nissan Dark Green Pearl. Jeep Eco Green Pearl. House of Kolor Pagan Gold over Black. And the winner is Harley Davidson Olive Gold Pearl.


Plastic mini bonnet to see how HD Olive Gold looks on a flatter plane.


Light coming though the clear roofing panel. More of the gold pearl showing. Shows up the defects in the plastic bonnet too, so will have to be done over very good prep work.


Direct sunlight.


Evening light.


Finally got the steering wheel back on! Got rid of the tan lower half and airbag centre and matched it to the stock black top leather. Never liked the look of a modern steering wheel in a older car, but works out alright when all the interior matches with it.


Factory electric leather and heated seats bolted down to the donor floor for the first time. Exactly the right amount of room for my 191cm or 6'3" frame. I adjusted the seats to where I was comfortable before pulling down the donor and marked the floor to how long I wanted to make the cab. Seat height to top of the windscreen is the same as my KK Cherokee daily driver.


Console bolted right back into the factory mounts. The modules that were mounted under the donor back seats, I fitted inside the back of the console where the optional rear seat DVD player went.
 
#1,411 ·

A couple of years ago some may remember me fitting the West Coast Jr. mirrors. Now that I have had a chance to actually sit in the vehicle and see how much I can see from the drivers seat, I realise I can use a mirror that is closer to the body. I found they look better on a stock width Willys than on a wide body one that I have made.


After much searching a few years ago I actually wanted these, so went and bought them this week. They are stainless and made by West Coast Metric and are a reproduction of the Type 2 and 3 VW bus mirrors.


I bought some half nuts in a matching 16x1.5mm thread to the mirror bases. The threaded section is not very long on the mirrors so I machined a step in the back of the nuts to sit flush with the front face of the stainless mounting plate. I noticed that the Totally Stainless version have a longer threaded mount and would be easier.


The reason I mounted them to a plate was so it would not only make for a stiffer mount, but so I could use a two part epoxy to hold the nuts in position so and can take the mirrors off and on later without any disassembly. Very awkward to hold the nut and had to move the window channel out of the way to get it in place.


I think these are better proportioned to the lower and wider cab than what I had. Less truck like and more custom as well.


This is a very strong area of the door too and there is no flex in the mount which will help against vibration.


Passenger side done the same.


Great to see the doors back on again after all this time too. :)
 
#1,412 ·
Dam thats one good custom looking Willys. (y)
Nice job.

Having done the headliner on my XJ which was a royal PITA, your headliner would of been10 times worse with all those corners.
By the way Marcus, you do know you put the steering wheel on the wrong side of the dash. haha!:)
 
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#1,414 ·
Hit a snag. Suddenly the central locking has stopped working via the door switches or the fobs.
Lights flash and can hear the relay clicking when using the fobs, but power does not come back into the doors.
Happened after I was testing programming new fobs and also working on the door ajar wires. Not sure which may be the cause. Was working perfectly via the original fob and the switches before that, but wont work off anything now.
Fuses have all been checked and cannot find a single related DTC.
WH/WK 2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee donor.
 
#1,415 ·
I'll take a wild guess at it.
What where relay is clicking?
Does lock/unlock work manually but not with the remote?

If you hear the motor (or solenoid) click inside the doors themselves, i'd think its got something to do with the mechanical lock/unlock mechanism.

On the other hand if you don't hear the clicking in the doors or the lock/unlock door buttons don't move up/down then the issue has got to be upstream or the adjar wiring problem.

After all the great work you've accomplished with the build, i'm sure you'll get this sorted out.
 
#1,416 ·
Door switches also stopped working at the same time. No power is coming back into the doors with the switches or remotes. The relays on these are part of the circuit board and cannot be replaced. They are not accessible as are on the backside of the fuse box under the dash. The whole fuse/relay box must be changed if there is a fault.
I'd rather setup a stand alone central locking/alarm system that uses the original fobs, as I still need them to start the engine, than pull all that out, unless I am positive it is the cause.
I wasted two days trying to solve this so far.
 
#1,417 ·
So the clicking you hear is the relay in the door's power control PCB and not in the doors.
Could be something is/was grounding the relay's output contacts or there's an open circuit somewhere from the relay's output power. But if it was a short, i'd think a fuse somewhere would of blown sooner or later.

Connectors would be the first thing i'd check but sure you did that already.
Assuming you have detailed schematics (at least connector pin outs), have you checked the power output right at that PCB's connector pin?

Another thing to check is the driver's side window/lock door pod. It controls and funnels a lot of functions including locking/unlocking and window ups/downs.

Unless the relay's energizing coil is open circuit or its control circuitry failed or the relay contacts got welded from a short circuit which i'd think would have different symptoms i'd go on the assumption there's something more simpler going on.
Hope it turns out its not that control PCB.
 
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#1,418 ·
With CANBUS systems, so much harder to know exactly what is going on and what could have caused it. :(
I had every plug apart several times already seeing if that might be it. For it to affect everything like it has, it is high up in the command chain and most likely part of the instrument panel.
Not going to screw around with pulling that all out as everything else is working.
Still wondering if the new fobs caused it as found out after successfully programming them, the supplied dealer fitted batteries had dropped a little voltage. They still start the engine, just didn't open the doors. Putting new batteries in them suddenly made the headlights flash etc, like they should when opening the doors, but didn't move the locks. Been trying to solve it ever since. Strangely the original fob stopped all together at the same time, so replaced the battery there too, but wont even flash the headlights when pressing the buttons.
 
#1,419 ·
Sometimes when i'm stumped going in circles with an unsolvable problem, people firing 'dumb' questions can jar the brain cells out of the trouble shooting circle sparking an UHuH inspirational moment (which might of or might not of had nothing to do the questions) that goes on to solve the problem.
Been there experienced that.
So here goes the dumb questions.

The original fob stopped working at the same time even with a new battery.
Are the new fobs after market or Mopar OEM?
Were the new fobs programmed by a 3rd party or a Jeep dealership?
Did the donor have an alarm system?
Fob dropping the battery voltage can be a weak battery or a problematic fob?
For kicks have you tried undoing the door adjar wiring?
Verified the door grounds?
Where in the Jeep is the fob's transmitter's receiver located?

You also mentioned you were working on the door adjar wiring.
Was the adjar wiring done before testing the new and original fob crash?

From what you've just described, it does seem to have something to do with the newly programmed fob but the door adjar wiring and mysterious death of the original fob is also lurking as the root cause.

If not tried already and nothing to lose, a PCM and fob resets with a new battery.
Replacing a fob battery should automatically reset its circuitry but let it sit a few minutes after removing the old battery then insert the new battery just to be sure.
Might try again to get the original fob working, might of had something to do with replacing its battery.

If everything else seems to be working including the gauges and can scan the OBD-II port it would seem the CANbus is healthy.
 
#1,420 ·
Original fob stopped working at the same time.
Returned ajar wiring back to when it was working.
Fobs are Mopar programmed by me using the Beta version of Appcar DiagFCA software. Contacted them with the problem but they have not replied on it even though they have with other question in the past.
Donor does have an alarm.
Scan shows no codes at all related to the problem.
Receiver is in the instrument cluster which is un changed. You know it is working as the light flash when you press either of the new fobs and then hear the relay under the dash clicking.
Might try reprogramming a remote and see what happens.
Original fob was working the doors after programming new fobs.
I didn't know the dealer installed batteries were low in the new fobs at the time and so they showed no activity via their buttons, but would start the engine.
I then worked on the ajar wiring and next day replaced the batteries in the new fobs to see if that would fix the new fobs buttons. That is when I noticed they flashed the lights for the first time, but didn't open the doors. Tried the original fob and the door switches and discovered they had stopped at the same time. Original fob doesn't even flash the lights. So swapped its battery with one from the new remotes and made no difference. Remove the wire for the door ajar wire completely and still no change.
Maybe it just needs a programming done by a proper Star scanner.
Just want to make sure I have not over looked something simple before paying for a auto electrician or dealer to look at it. Would actually be cheaper to install a stand alone alarm/remote locking aftermarket unit. I want one that uses the original fobs though. Viper have some units but not sure if they will work with these fobs and be a stand alone system.

 
#1,421 ·
FOBS have been tested using a live data check via the scanning software and reports are showing signal being received.
More testing done and power is at the lock only when the meter is grounded to the body. Switch them and power works on the other wire depending if lock or unlock is depressed. But not showing power when tested between the two lock wires, regardless if the lock or unlock button is used.
Thought a ground issue but that ground wire is shared with the power windows which are still working.
So must be at the junction block under the dash which has all the fuses and relays for the body controls, or the instrument cluster where the fault is. Neither serviceable and have to be replaced!
 
#1,423 · (Edited)
FOBS have been tested using a live data check via the scanning software and reports are showing signal being received.
More testing done and power is at the lock only when the meter is grounded to the body. Switch them and power works on the other wire depending if lock or unlock is depressed. But not showing power when tested between the two lock wires, regardless if the lock or unlock button is used.
Thought a ground issue but that ground wire is shared with the power windows which are still working.
So must be at the junction block under the dash which has all the fuses and relays for the body controls, or the instrument cluster where the fault is. Neither serviceable and have to be replaced!
Seems like a grounding return problem to me.
One thing to keep in mind both the windows and locks have reversible motors meaning they both 'could' have separate returns to what ever module is controlling them.
In order for a DC motor to reverse direction its applied voltage source has to reverse polarity.

In other words one or both might have separate returns to their respective modules that are not directly grounded to the chassis ground.
I had a similar issue trying to jury rig my ATV's reversible winch motor's switch by trying to add a relay instead of having the motor power go through the complicated switch which failed a few years ago and had to be replaced.
The winch motor is not referenced to chassis ground but is isolated from it in order to have reverse polarity to reverse the motor's armature direction.

Based on what you've said so far and if this were my deal, i'd concentrate on grounding returns until that effort is exhausted or uncovers the problem.

Man this has got to be frustration and a half.
 
#1,422 ·
I'm thinking the fault I have is from the original accident as the frame that the junction block sits in was twisted. I had to repair it just get get the junction block out originally when stripping down the donor. Maybe the printed circuit board got cracked and when I started using it it burnt right through an already damage trace.
 
#1,424 ·
Very frustrating indeed!
I have looked at maybe using a double throw double pole relay to solve the issue?
Cross the outer pins like he shows here?

Only thing is my original lock positive is still moving from one wire to the other, so maybe combine them and ground the other side of the two middle pins of the relay for the power supply wires?
 
#1,430 ·
I found my original diagram of my ATV's mechanical switch i drew up and its not worth showing here.
The throwing of the switch contacts are all mechanically sychronized, very complicated switch.

Yeah the easiest method to try is using a momentary on/off/on switch and a double pole double throw relay:
Might be able to get away with not using Fuse F2 depending on the amperage draw of the motor.
Like you mentioned two cheaper and easier to find single pole double throw relays can also work.

But this is all useless since you mentioned in your last post the manual lock switches work.

Handwriting Rectangle Font Pattern Parallel
 
#1,426 ·
The problem of reversing a DC motor's armature's direction with a single battery of which its Neg. post is directly connected to the vehicle's chassis ground requires complex reversing switching along with an isolated motor from chassis ground which i think you're already aware of.

The solution is to have all the motor's electrical internals isolated from chassis ground.
Then through that complicated switching scheme reverse polarities can be applied to the motor's brushes.
The motor's case if made of metal can then be grounded to chassis ground for fuseable safety concerns.

When i was trying to use a relay(s) to prevent the majority of amperage going through my ATV's polarity reversing winch switch i drew up a schematic of the reversing polarity switch.
That project was shelved until next Spring, too much snow to plow to have my ATV down during the Winter.
I'll look through my notes for the schematic and if i didn't pitch it i'll post it here and you can correlate that to relay contacts.

One thing you can try for kicks is to see if the motor is indeed isolated from chassis ground with motor mounted in the door.
Disconnect its connector and measure each of its input pins to see if there's any continuity to chassis ground.
If there are more than two input pins one could be tied the the motor's metal case for safety purposes, check for continuity there too.

Another thing to keep in mind since the battery's power source's Neg. reference is tied to chassis ground, the motor's armature even if isolated from ground will be tied to chassis ground at each polarity swap just at opposite of each armature brushes.

The reason i keep thinking on returns, grounds and wiring.
But i'm thinking the issue can be resolved by going over the wiring to and from the control modules.
Paying careful attention to what wires are tied to chassis ground and what wires age going to the control modules.

Are you using the donor's original window switch pods and all the control modules?
Some of the door lock circuitry could be located in the window door pods.
 
#1,427 ·
Motors were used in the WH donor locks but I could not fit those in. I have other locks working of XJ door solenoids instead. Using the donor door modules and switches which also stopped at the same time. Still wondering if the key fob software is at fault, as was fine before that. I was hoping to hear from them as emailed them about it and only have asked for a few live data results so far, but nothing since.
 
#1,429 ·
Door locks work manually just fine, but only accessible from the inside. I have not been able to find a lock cylinder shallow enough to fit between the glass and the outside skin to use a key in, so can see it is very important to get the locks working via the fobs.
 
#1,433 ·
The manual lock is just the pull up push down pin in the window trim. The solenoid is connected to this as well.
The only problem I have since the programming is that the ground has disappeared from the switching circuit going back into the doors to the solenoids. Everything else works via the CANBUS signals to the instrument panel and BCM and the same ground path is working other components just fine. Some how the programming has affected the BCM and the ground path out of it to the switches. Maybe using a different software might fix it by reprogramming the FOBs?
If damaged has occurred to the BCM ground out path, then the double throw double pole solution to get the ground reintroduced to the solenoids
 
#1,435 ·
Marcus, are you saying the manual locks only work when physically pushing the top protruding door posts and also when using the door's electrical locking/unlocking switch?

Mopar_guy
has another good idea using a cable lock release to unlock the doors in an emergency for at least one door.
If the battery goes dead for whatever reason, the fobs won't work.

Another similar idea if you go the route of the relay polarity reversing thing is to have the weather proof switch hidden somewhere outside the Jeep.
But that will only work if the lock mechanism uses a motor instead of a solenoid unless they use a 'floating' solenoid capable of reversing direction per the polarity applied across it which i doubt.

Been thinking on the same cable thing for a backup hood release on my XJ in case the OEM hood release mechanism fails.

Dam this lock fubar has delayed the Willys from its final completion which i was looking forward to.
Marcus, sooner or later you'll get it all sorted one way or another.
 
#1,436 ·
Locks now only work via the door posts. They stopped working via the fobs and door switches at the same time. Fuses and the circuit breaker were the first things checked and it shows power to the solenoids, just not a ground.
No DTC's either!
 
#1,437 · (Edited)
I'd think if the locks don't work with the door switches they're probably not gonna work with the remote either.
As i think i said earlier if this were my deal, i'd concentrate on getting the lock to work with the door switch first and then tackle the remote issue if that still exists.

The ground might not be a ground in the true sense but returns back the TIPM if thats the module supplying power to the door locks.
Here's a slight 'possibility' of what could of happened...just brain storming at this point.
Take another look at the representative diagram i drew up for my ATV's winch but using relays instead of the complicated OEM mechanical switch.

In its quiescent state, the motor's electrical internals are isolated from chassis ground until the control module applies power to the motors inputs. One of the motor's inputs will be at ground potential while the other input will be at 12V potential depending on the motor's intended direction.
If a true chassis ground was accidentally applied to one of the motor's input wiring which happened to be at +12V potential that could of damaged the output driver in its control module.
Hopefully though that should of blown a fuse or a breaker somewhere.
Further, output drivers are typically designed to be short circuit proof but then again the Titanic was supposed to be unsinkable.

Its not clear, are you using only the donor's lock hardware in the door or only parts of it?

By any chance do you have the complete shop manual's wiring diagram for the donor Jeep?
All this is guessing, surmising and not really trouble shooting.
An electrical wiring diagram will enable to see whats really going on with the power locks.
The electrical diagram could also come in handy if the locking system ultimately needs to be modified.
 
#1,438 ·
I agree that it is a control problem and not just a fob problem.
I have been working off the FSM, over 9100 pages, of the lock diagrams
None of the original lock or even switches are being used.
Switches are from a Dakota of the same year and even fits into the donor Jeep switch frame, just a 2 door setup instead of a 4 door for the electric windows.
Maybe grounding out the door ajar wires caused a short and damaged the body control module, or Junction Block as they call it in the FSM. There is 60 pages on just testing door lock faults in the FSM, but none show the exact fault without a code that should be there for it as well. Going to have to pull the whole instrument panel out to access the harness plug to test the most likely causes which could tell me if it is the instrument panel itself or the BCM.
If the instrument panel, I think I would just do a work around with the relays, but the BCM I'll see if I can find one that matches up, (must have the same options, engine, trim etc.), as they have not been made new for 6 years now from the dealer.
 
#1,441 ·
Gojeep,
a further complication could be if the door locks are tied in either directly with the CANbus or indirectly via the TIPM or other module. I think you eluded to this in an earlier post.
The remote sends an unlock/lock RF frequency code to the receiver antenna located somewhere in the Jeep and if the door locks are self locking at a certain low speed IMO its tied into the CANbus one way or another.
Do you know where the remote receiver module is located in the Jeep?

Since there are no active or stored CEL codes the last ditch option might be to do a custom power lock bypassing the OEM system altogether.
But the stickler is the original remote did work until it bit the dust or did the power locking system bite the dust?
Hell most everything you've done to the Willys so far is custom and at its best workmanship.

I forget once more, did you say earlier that the original remote or clones did or still are actually rolling the window up/down?
 
#1,442 ·
Not sure if your alarm module is in the passenger door like my wj rhd or if its aerial is in the roof evic, but when my fobs don't seem to be working good on my driver side I point it to the evic/passenger door and one usually works.
Not sure where either are in a 2008 though
 
#1,443 ·
The receiver is part of the instrument cluster. As far as all the testing shows so far by using a live feed over the OBDII port, the CANBUS is working perfectly and sending the signals on.
Looking more and more like it is the interior fuse box which also has the body module as part of it and controls everything affected after getting the message from the instrument panel. The frame it sits in was damaged when the donor was hit at a 100mph by a Harley Davidson bending the A pillar in so far that the accelerator pedal couldn't even come back up! I had to force the frame apart just to get the interior fuse panel out when I was pulling down the donor. Maybe a hairline crack accorded in one of the boards traces and using the locks while testing finally burnt it through?
Trying to find a replacement but has to be the right one for the model etc. Part number 56048366AE. Only found some in the US and Spain so far.

Cheapest I can find: 2008 JEEP COMMANDER INTERIOR CABIN FUSE JUNCTION RELAY CONTROL BOX ID 56048366AE | eBay
 
#1,444 ·
Holy crap! A Harley hit the A-pillar at a 100mph!o_O
The power lock plot thickens.

I noticed relays mounted on that module with 5 other up-populated relay sockets.
Of the relays plugged in and its hard to see their part numbers from the pic but the two smaller ones look to have the same P/N and the 3 larger ones also look to have the same P/N.
I'm sure you tried this already but just in case, have you tried rotating those relays around to see if it changes anything?

I'm also wondering what optional accessories those 5 un-populated relay sockets were intended for.

Far as the original module, is the case cracked or show any other signs of distress?
I'd guess with an impact like that its possible some internal electronic component leads could of broke loose from the PCB if the inside circuitry wasn't potted.

The relay internals also could of been jarred out of whack and a broken trace would not be out of the question especially if some electronic component lifted off its PCB solder connection from the impact.
But who knows what components live inside that case.

Before buying a new module i myself would verify the relays are good to go then open the case and have a look inside.
Relays can be replaced and if the inside is not potted or the PCB not conformal coated, broken PCB traces are extremely easy to fix.
Nothing to loose if you're already think'n on buying that new module.

The worst case and admittedly its a stretch is that the impact could of caused a relay contact(s) to close unintentionally possibly causing damage to the module or elsewhere.

Hope you have a bottle of champagne ready to go when you get this sorted and it will get sorted one way or another.
 
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