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Grand Willys project

383K views 2K replies 163 participants last post by  CNY_WK2 
#1 · (Edited)
This project has been brewing in my head for many years and been slowing gather parts and building a workshop and sheds to be able to do it.

The plan is to build a bit of a hotrod from using all the running gear, wiring, instruments, seats etc for one donor vehicle as much as possible.


Back in December 2007 I bought a Willys Pickup off eBay but it was a year before I got it home as had nowhere to store it. After much jumping through hoops with the council I built my workshop to house it.



After much looking and watching insurance auctions I was finally able to get a donor for the project. Ended up with a 2008 WH/WK Grand Cherokee with a 5.7 Hemi. It was first registered in 2009 and 12 months later T boned by a Harley rider doing a 100 mph! Hit it so hard that the foot well locked the throttle and he steered off the road into a paddock until he hit a tree.


One day these two will become one.


Getting the Grand into the workshop.


The Grand is in place ready for lots of measurements and then the strip down can begin!


Got a start on the project this week. Started by taking every measurement I could think of so I can setup all the suspension under the Willys when it gets transferred across. Also been labeling every wiring plug that I have found so far. Done the whole engine bay and have it all disconnected ready for removing once I can get to the others ends of the harness under the dash. Also unbolted every panel that can come off and removed the seats.


Being careful not to damage any of the trim when taking it apart in case I can sell any that I don't use.


Still go a few more things like the chrome roof bars, rear bumper and tail-lights to go outside.


Airbag under the dash cover was quite fiddly to get out.


What it looks like under the dash with the top cover off. Going to be fun getting all that into my Willys Pickup later.
 
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#1,445 ·
Unfortunately only some of the relays are removeable and the ones that I need are moulded into the case and soldered directly to the circuit board.
Spare ones can be for on board DVD player and Satellite Radio etc which mine had the wiring for, but were never offered on the Australian market.
I found a 2007 WH Limited which might have the same module as it is the same trim level and only $50.
Unfortunately it is an hour away and they wont even tell me if it is still in the Jeep as it is a pull it yourself yard!
Planning to go anyway with the wife and make a day of it as not far from the beach and it going to be hot again tomorrow at 32*C.
 
#1,446 ·
Was looking at the module in that link you posted, either the donor's module must be a different style or that picture in the link is misleading.
Good luck, it'd be great if that fixes it.
 
#1,447 ·
I'm just going by what the factory service manual says if the relays that control the door locks are faulty. Non replaceable and whole junction block must be replaced.
I will pick up a door module as well as I had to cut that free from the crushed door.
 
#1,448 ·
At this point its a moot issue but have you tried unplugging some of those relays as shown in that new replacement module from the link....no biggy just curious if nothing else.

Wow you have the factory service manual.
If the replacement module don't fix the problem can you then scan and post a schematic for the door lock circuitry?
But i sort of get this feeling the replacement module will fix the locki issue.
This is really an interesting problem as you already know so do post an update.
 
#1,449 ·
FSM is over 9100 pages! I have just on PDF.
My wife printed out the 60 pages on trouble shotting the door lock alone, but they are all based on, "if you have this code check such and such etc" Doesn't help if you dont have any related codes. They all seen to concentrate on the positive of CANBUS signals which the tests have all shown work! It is the grounds that it the problem. I even tried yesterday some different software which has a demo version for free, but information was even less.


I have just found the relative ground diagram related!

Schematic Font Rectangle Slope Parallel

Remember that windows are working just fine so has to be something tied into the locks only. Not sure if the memory seats are working or not?
 
#1,450 ·
Sorry about the focus as for some reason print screen is doing it?

Passenger side.

Schematic Font Parallel Rectangle Engineering


You can clearly hear the relay clicking under the dash in the junction block either via the FOBs or the window switches. Power moves from one lock wire to the other when going from unlock to lock if you have the meter grounded to the body. Meter wont read anything if probed to the lock wires only showing the non powered lock wire has no ground and therefore no voltage can be read between them all of a sudden.
 
#1,451 ·
If you can hear a relay clicking plus the fact the windows work i think you're right in that the modules are at least receiving commands.
And if the fob can cause the clicking with a lock command that could be a sign the fobs are working. Just might be something between the lock module and the lock actuator or a bad module.

Looking at those diagrams they're basic ground paths to the modules which are needed for their electronics to work.
Whats needed is a detailed wiring diagram from the module to the lock actuator.
Maybe if you search the manual for the lock actuator electrical diagram hopefully it'll include the module and door switches which could shed some light on whats going on.

I'd think if all the wiring and harnesses used are from the donor with no deviations, its starting to look more and more like the module's lock output relays whether they used mechanical or solid state relays could be blown either from the Harley impact or accidentally grounding something that should not have been grounded.
Or possibly a broken wire or connector issue which you've already gone over.....all it would take is one open circuit actuator wire somewhere.

The clicking you hear could either be bad output relay contacts or a smaller signal relay to kick start the module to do something.
I know its not possible but i'd like to see that module's internal circuitry schematic.
 
#1,452 ·
I looked at the two modules and the drivers and passenger side were the same part number even though the passenger harness only plugs into two of the three ports. So I swapped them to see if there was any difference. None. :(

I do thank you for continuing to take an interest in helping me figure what has happen. :)

Schematic Building Rectangle Font Parallel


The relays you could see on the back of the junction block were not for the door locks unfortunately.

Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Pattern


Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Schematic
Font Rectangle Parallel Slope Pattern


Trying still to find a common wire that is shared by both the passenger and drivers side that is not working. I have power at the locks on both power wires depending on switch position.
 
#1,453 ·
Marcus, those are the diagrams i was looking for although ! hate the way FCA splits a function up in different pages.
I'm used to seeing schematics showing the whole entire picture at a single glance.

Unfortunately just got home after visiting the local bar so i'll take a good look at them tomorrow morning when i'm a little more clear headed. haha

How is the replacement module coming along although its starting to look like there's more to the power locks than said module.
 
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#1,454 ·
I didn't end up going to the wrecking yard as found out that changed the bus speed changed between 07 and 08 to a higher one, so it would not have been the right one. So far I have only found that part number on 08 SRT's or Limited's only, regardless of engine type.
 
#1,457 ·
Took a quick look at the diagrams and Mopar_guy pointed out the first thing to check.
From what i can tell ground G-100 does look like it affects both the passenger and driver's lock relays.
Connector S-136 whatever that one is, should be the first one to check thoroughly for spread or unseated pins.
Its not clear where that connector is getting its ground, could be a wire bolted to the chassis?

Let us know what you find Marcus.
 
#1,458 ·
The S-136 is a splice. FYI, S numbers are splices and C numbers are connectors. Yes, you're correct that is connected to the chassis someplace. There's a diagram that shows where ground G 100 is. That might be his problem if he missed hooking it up. We'll see when he grounds that pin in the connector. ;)
 
#1,461 ·
Thanks for that info Mopar_guy.
I'm sure Marcus is glad there's at least two of us here trying to solve the power lock issue.

Without diagram symbol definitions listed i guessed (wrongly) it could be a connector or possibly a wire Identifier.
Since its a spice of some kind that or others could of been over looked when installing the donor's dash assembly.
Wire splices depending on how well they're secured and/or mishandled could of broken loose during the dash swap creating an open ground or other circuit.
 
#1,459 ·
Yes, I will check to make sure the ground goes into the connector. If it is not there, it could be a loose connection as it was working before. That would be the best result!
If the ground goes into the junction block, we know the fault is inside as know it is not coming out.
Least I am learning a lot through all this. :)
 
#1,460 ·
Looking at the diagrams the G100 is in the left side engine compartment and also feeds the starter, light, turn signals, markers, horn as well and all are working perfectly. Must be up stream from there.
The wire is Z387 going to connector C1 pin 14. It is the only ground going into the whole block controlling all the functions of the junction block its fuses and relays.
Safe to say the fault is inside the junction box going to the relay for the locking only.
 
#1,462 · (Edited)
Marcus, double check any dangling wire terminals or loose terminal lugs and make sure the entire dash swap and their modules are grounded.
Based on what Mopar_guy's explanation of the diagram's where S id's are splices tied to ground, make sure each and every splice you spot is indeed tied to ground

Based on the pic of that new module you were gonna buy, it appears to have plastic case.
Which means it needs a good solid ground for the electronics to work.

We're rooting to get that great custom Willys of yours wheeling in the outback!(y)
 
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#1,464 ·
Very grateful to you both. :)
I am going to ring around more wrecking yards here locally as would get it here quicker than via eBay global shipping which get sent to their freight centre in the US before getting sent here. They are quoting around a month. Everything I have found with the matching part number, 56048366AE , is from a 2008 Limited or SRT, regardless of engine.
You have to remember that here most 4wd's are Toyota Landcruiser's and few Jeeps by comparison, so finding one of the same year and trim level has been hard.
 
#1,466 ·
I just now tested the plug side of pin 14 and it showed continuity to ground. As windows etc are also off the same ground in the fuse box, no real surprise.
What did surprise me is I tested via the door switches once plugged back in and locks worked in both directions!!!

and then not again no matter what I tried. :(

Really sounds like a loose connection to the relays inside the box as windows etc still work fine even when the locks are not. Maybe heats up and looses contact. Could try and see if I can find the connection by pulling the box apart. Might try it as soon as I finish up anything that can't be done with it out of the vehicle.
 
#1,469 ·
I just now tested the plug side of pin 14 and it showed continuity to ground. As windows etc are also off the same ground in the fuse box, no real surprise.
What did surprise me is I tested via the door switches once plugged back in and locks worked in both directions!!!

and then not again no matter what I tried. :(


Really sounds like a loose connection to the relays inside the box as windows etc still work fine even when the locks are not. Maybe heats up and looses contact. Could try and see if I can find the connection by pulling the box apart. Might try it as soon as I finish up anything that can't be done with it out of the vehicle.
H'mm! Think you said way back when during that first test the original fob worked only once and never again same with the new fobs?

I agree with Mopar_guy and as i also said earlier in that this could be a flaky spread, corroded, unseated pin or burnt connector contact pin issue.
If this were my deal, i'd look at each and every connector pin with bright light and magnifying glass.
You could also have a helper work the switches while you jiggle, pull and tug on the harnesses and connectors.
I found and fixed many intermittent problems with that jiggle technique.

Had this happen before on my XJ's heater blower resistor pack which had an intermittent problem.
A slightly spread or corroded connector pin will work initially (or sometimes) until its poor conductivity provides a high impedance across the contact pins which results in heat which results in further spreading and burning of the contact pins snow balling to an eventual complete failure.
With my XJ's blower motor i not only had to replace the resistor pack but also its burnt melted connector.

Of course it could also be a power module issue with maybe an 'on the verge' cold solder joint that got worse from the accident's impact.
I've run across a lot of cold solder joint problems in the past, they can act intermittently with no rhyme or reason, vibration or start working once the PCB heats up with the heat expanding the metals in the solder joint.
 
#1,467 ·
Well it sounds like you're on the right track. Did you pull the connector out from the JB? Did you inspect the terminal pin and connector? I assume you tested the circuit with an ohm meter but did not hook a jumper wire to it?
Here's the thing with meters, they can lie to you. All it takes is one strand of wire to make it show the circuit is good but the the circuit cannot handle any load. That's why I use a regular bulb style test light because if you pay attention to the brightness of the bulb, a dim bulb will show a high resistance circuit. That's also why I said to use a jumper wire to ground so you know that the issue would not be that circuit. It's a way to bypass it to see if it stays working. IMO, you have need to recheck that because you haven't ruled out that ground circuit possibly being bad yet.
 
#1,470 ·
I removed the big clamp style connector from the fuse box to test it. There is no access to the terminals any other way and tested the plug with an ohm meter. Every plug is like new on this harness as the vehicle was only 12 months old when written off and has been in a dry plastic box in my shed for 10 years before being installed into the Willys.
I can't see how it can be a connector issue when it feeds all the other components in the same fuse box, which work perfectly every time?
 
#1,471 ·
I'm not sure what style connector you're dealing with so one way to try this is to slide a paper clip beside the wire through the weatherpack seal so the paper clip will contact the terminal. Hook a ground jumper to it and try it.
To verify that you have a good connection is to hook a test lights clip to battery voltage and ground the point. Note the brightness of the bulb. Now touch the point to the paper clip and see if it lights up and what the brightness is. Don't poke the wire though.
It seems odd to me that you unhooked the connector and hooked it back up and they worked a few times. That sounds like it could be a bad connection.

There is a possibility that Moparado brought up of a cold soldier joint. I've torn apart a couple of GM juction blocks and soldiered the contacts in them to fix bad connections. Most of them are put together pretty crappy.
 
#1,473 ·
Found a photo of what the connector plug looks like for you and why I can't jumper it with it connector. This is the connector on the back of the fuse box, but all three are the same with a lever that rotates over the back of it and pulls the connector into the plug socket when installing it.

 
#1,475 ·
I just looked up the part number you gave and found several on eBay for $150 US. You could cut that ground wire just past the plug where you can get to it, strip it and hook it to a ground just be sure and splice it back together when done. If that was mine, I'd opening that box up and doing some repairs. There's no pc board in there I'll bet. I'd start tracing that ground circuit back and start soldering connections. :geek: 😂
 
#1,476 ·
This is the cheapest I can find and will run me $200US once freight and duties are added.
Wife wants me to buy this regardless in case something should go wrong in the future and have a replacement ready to go. Might be hard to find one in another 10-20 years time and why I have a spare brand new WIN as well.
I'll see if I can pull it today some time and see if I can see what's wrong.
I still wondering that I may have done it when I was grounding violet coloured wires of the door ajar switches finding which one did what as there were some with the same coloured traces as well.
 
#1,477 ·
Yeah thats what i meant if some circuit got grounded accidentally or by trouble shooting that shouldn't of been grounded.

Got an iffy theory why the locks seem to work sometimes with the first try and then not after.
The motors need a flip flop polarity reversal from the module to reverse the motor's direction already covered here.
If whatever is driving the motor power along with the last state of the motor voltage polarity it could be that last polarity was in the correct state for the first lock command to work.
Once the polarity flip flops for the next lock command either B+ or likely ground is missing from whatever module supplies power to the motor.

I'd make sure both motors are absolutely isolated from chassis ground by removing their connectors then check the harness and connectors from the motor to its controlling module carefully.
Since both door locks don't work, i'd think think the problem is located near or in the module.

Once a new module(s) is installed that should either cut the problem in half or fix it.

Marcus, i'll bet you want to get beyond this issue and get back to metal fabricating.
 
#1,479 ·
I swapped the door modules left to right as they are the same to see if there was any change. There was none. They only send the message via the CANBUS and don't send power or ground anyway. Live feed shows the messages coming through from the switches and the RKE's.
I have been doing the testing without the lock solenoids connected, so are not part of the problem. The power is always switching, just the ground is not present when not working.
I just checked my wipers which also run off a relay in the same fuse box and share the same ground, work perfectly still.
I even thought maybe it worked only briefly while the computer was in 'sleep' mode, so checked it first thing this morning and locks still didn't work.

Yes I can't wait to get back to doing something you can actually see too! Been doing some things while trying to work this out though.
Just found a wrecking yard that has an 08 Limited with a HEMI and he will check the number on its fuse box when he pulls the engine out of it today for me. The problem I have been finding is they wont pull a fuse box here unless they have sold it! Does help me if I don't know it is the right one or not first and you cannot read the number unless using a small mirror and hold a harness out of the way while using a torch to light it up!
 
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