2011 Alpine simple make over - Page 5 - Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum

Go Back   Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum > Jeep Platform Discussion > Grand Cherokee - WK2 - > Audio/Visual/Navigation

Join Jeep Garage Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
  #49  
Old 09-18-2016, 06:58 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: South Florida
Posts: 73
Thanks: 38
Thanked 11 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 228
made_in_murica is on a distinguished road
Re: 2011 Alpine simple make over

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stJeepGC View Post
Greetings,

After thinking about your question since it was first time anybody asked me if I would do it over again the same way, it still a very good question.

The most important speaker that I can not stress enough about for a surround sound sound quality mobile audio system is the tweeter. In our situation we need only a single pair for the tweeter in the vehicle. A ribbon tweeter is out of the question with is axis problems as of now. The beryllium tweeter is another fine option. But the ring radiator tweeter from HAT and it's price point was the perfect solution for me. The L1 Pro R2 tweeter controls off axis response better than previous tweeters of this type for mobile audio. Even Polk gave up on it years ago.

Equally important speaker was the L3SE from HAT that is my center and rear pillar. This was a total surprise in the detail of the sound. This is a wide band full range speaker that can serve many different purposes. As I mentioned in my writeup, the proper crossover setting is the key. My recommendation is to setup as band-pass type if the aftermarket DSP has that function. HAT drivers are the same as home audio hi-end drivers.

So the answer to the speakers is, YES, I would use HAT again.

Thank you SO MUCH for the thoughtful response. All of your posts I have seen always have quality information as well as well thought out responses. It's nice to have someone that actually knows what they are talking about that is willing to help others.

I am very much liking all of the reviews of the HATs. I am going to check out a local dealer for those, I actually emailed HAT themselves and suggested a few other dealers in my area for them to contact in efforts to carry their product line as there are not many places to go in south east florida (Only one near Miami but a few in the Tampa area). They were very responsive and actually happy to contact a few local shops I suggested that would be good partners, hoping to hear back some good news in the next week or so.

Back to the speakers themselves, I am wondering, in your opinion what is the quality difference for their Stage V and Stage VI speakers? I noticed you used the Stage VI Lagatia SE, as they are about twice the price, are they noticeably better than the standard Stage V Lagatia's? Also does that JL Audio stealth box actually hit hard as it is only a 10"? I like a lot of 80's and 90's rock, but I like to hear the drums hit pretty hard.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stJeepGC View Post
As for the amps, Pioneer does not make that line any longer and it is a shame. The amps are incredible. The JL Audio amps would be the replacement. However, HAT amps are coming to the market and my feeling is that are going to a major impact on the market. Just as Focal speakers and amps are. Personally, I am fine with Class D amps.

The big question for amps today is whether to go with a combo unit consisting of DSP/AMP. This has steadily been available from manufactures at all different price points and grades. The big advantage is the signal path is digital within and thus you have a much better output. As oppose from going from digital to analog back to digital and out to analog.


So the answer to the amps is, reserved decision.

With regards, to the DSP's the JBL MS-8 is done as far as I know, but you can still find it. Harman blew it with that. Their was no reason in the world they could not make another version with no internal amps and 10 channels of full processing access. The only other unit is the Alpine geared only for 5.1 with access to processing with limitation in the setup. But, Audiofrog is suppose to come out with a product better than the MS-8.

Audiofrog Debuts Multiseat Stereo | ceoutlook.com

As my writeup indicates that I have 2 DSP's, the 3.sixty.3 is used for my fine tuning were the MS-8 fails in that respect for me. The 3.sixty.3 for me, did not live up to expectations and has problems. So the question becomes do I replace with the Helix DSP PRO, a combo unit or wait for the Audiofrog and redo it again?

So the answer to the DSP's is, waiting to see what Audiofrog has to offer.
For the Helix combo Amp & DSP, are you referring to this unit:
Helix P SIX DSP MK2
Helix P SIX DSP MK2 6-channel car amplifier with digital signal processing — 120 watts RMS x 6 at Crutchfield.com

For the JL Audio amp, their current lineup only has these for 6 channel or 8 channel amps:

XD800/8v2
XD800/8v2 - Car Audio - Amplifiers - XD - JL Audio


XD600/6v2
XD600/6v2 - Car Audio - Amplifiers - XD - JL Audio


That looks pretty nice, although I saw on ebay the MS-8 used going for about $120 - $160, given the price for that and a JL Audio amp vs the Helix Amp & DSP combo, would you recommend the Helix combo or the used MS-8 and JL Audio amp? For the cost, the MS-8 and JL Audio route would be half the cost of the Helix, however if the Helix would result in a better sound and tuning ability to me it's worth it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stJeepGC View Post
The aftermarket headunit Pioneer AppRadio 3 is still working. But I still want to jump to CarPlay. As I posted in the CarPlay thread many times, until more 3rd party navi apps have to appear before I make the move. I might just go for the Pioneer 4200 Nex and run in the AppRadio Mode.

My personal opinion on dealing with the 8.4 Uconnect system is to have 2 or more DSP's for a surround sound 7.1 system. The first DSP is the JL Audio Flex 82 to clean up the signal in order to start fresh. From that point, their are many ways to process from here. The Audiofrog might be the answer when it gets released. Or find MS-8 and combine that with the combo unit of the DSP/AMP.

Hope this helps.

Best for now.
As for Android Auto experience, I'm thinking of going this route:
Uconnect 8.4 Android System | Sweden Car Performance

Otherwise I could just hold off a few months to see if FCA delivers on the promise to release the updated headunit with higher resolution and Android Auto ability.

Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #50  
Old 09-19-2016, 08:01 AM
1stJeepGC's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2011 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NYC Area
Posts: 1,549
Thanks: 222
Thanked 186 Times in 163 Posts
Rep Power: 27220
1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2011 Alpine simple make over

Greetings,

In my case, the JBL MS-8 is used for the steering logic for the surround sound. I do not use any of the processing for fine tuning the system. Currently, that is left to the RF 3.sixty.3., which iI am going to replaced it sometime in 2017. You can use the MS-8 for tuning purposes, they do offer the eq and you can set crossover frequencies. Time delay is automatic. I have it in the by-pass mode with just the LOGIC 7 on.

As I mentioned in a previous post here, I am very curious on the AudioFrog DSP due out sometime in 2017. According to the early press notes, it is going to be what the MS-8 should have been. The MS-8 failed on 2 counts, a weak internal amps and the lack of user fine tuning. Because of that, many auto installers were not recommending it and Crutchfield dumped it. After that, JBL gave up on it.

As for the combo DSP/AMP's, many manufactures are into this including AudioControl, Match, Audison and others. 2017 you will see more products. If you need to save space, this is the way to go. Which means in your case, if you use the MS-8, then the same way I have it configured, you will then be going into a combo for the fine tuning and amplification.

IMHO, i think the Stealthbox hits pretty dam hard for a 10inch sub. It gets down nice and low. The key for reproducing the sound of the drums is both the sub and mid bass driver. In my case the Stage VI 6 inch driver is the matching component for my application. And like you, I enjoy that music genre as well. The only Stage V drivers that I have are in the rear door, L3V2. When I heard the quality of the L3SE for the center, I had them installed in the rear pillar instead of the L3V2. It is a big jump in money, but if you have to say in budget, then the Stage V will work. Based on hearing the Stage II after my install, I feel that the Stage V will hold water. It is definitely worth getting for the tweeter the L1 Pro R2.

Based on the type of install you are looking at, I would for sure include the JL Audio Flex 82, the MS-8 and combo amps for space savings. The exact configuration can be determined later once you know the speakers that you will be using.

As always, any questions let me know.

Best for now.
__________________
Laredo X, Trail Rated, QTii, Sele-Terrian, Quadra Lift, Off-Road Adventure Package ii, Nokian Rotiva AT, Tow, AFE CAI, DiabloSport inTune 1000-DCX, Custom Sound System ( HAT speakers, JLAudio , Pioneer , JBL MS-8 & RF 3.sixty.3 -- see the writeup link below for more details)

http://www.jeepgarage.org/f155/2011-...ver-79121.html
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 1stJeepGC For This Useful Post:
  #51  
Old 09-19-2016, 09:09 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: South Florida
Posts: 73
Thanks: 38
Thanked 11 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 228
made_in_murica is on a distinguished road
Re: 2011 Alpine simple make over

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stJeepGC View Post
Greetings,

In my case, the JBL MS-8 is used for the steering logic for the surround sound. I do not use any of the processing for fine tuning the system. Currently, that is left to the RF 3.sixty.3., which iI am going to replaced it sometime in 2017. You can use the MS-8 for tuning purposes, they do offer the eq and you can set crossover frequencies. Time delay is automatic. I have it in the by-pass mode with just the LOGIC 7 on.

As I mentioned in a previous post here, I am very curious on the AudioFrog DSP due out sometime in 2017. According to the early press notes, it is going to be what the MS-8 should have been. The MS-8 failed on 2 counts, a weak internal amps and the lack of user fine tuning. Because of that, many auto installers were not recommending it and Crutchfield dumped it. After that, JBL gave up on it.

As for the combo DSP/AMP's, many manufactures are into this including AudioControl, Match, Audison and others. 2017 you will see more products. If you need to save space, this is the way to go. Which means in your case, if you use the MS-8, then the same way I have it configured, you will then be going into a combo for the fine tuning and amplification.

IMHO, i think the Stealthbox hits pretty dam hard for a 10inch sub. It gets down nice and low. The key for reproducing the sound of the drums is both the sub and mid bass driver. In my case the Stage VI 6 inch driver is the matching component for my application. And like you, I enjoy that music genre as well. The only Stage V drivers that I have are in the rear door, L3V2. When I heard the quality of the L3SE for the center, I had them installed in the rear pillar instead of the L3V2. It is a big jump in money, but if you have to say in budget, then the Stage V will work. Based on hearing the Stage II after my install, I feel that the Stage V will hold water. It is definitely worth getting for the tweeter the L1 Pro R2.

Based on the type of install you are looking at, I would for sure include the JL Audio Flex 82, the MS-8 and combo amps for space savings. The exact configuration can be determined later once you know the speakers that you will be using.

As always, any questions let me know.

Best for now.
Thank you again!

About the Speakers:

I'm looking to follow your lead with the speaker setup,

The L1 Pro R2 along with a set of L6SE will run about $1,379.98 on 12ve:
Legatia L1 Pro R2 Tweeters - Silver - 12v Electronics
Legatia L6SE Speaker Set - 12v Electronics

I can certainly handle that, while also going with a set of L3SE for the rear doors at about $529.99:
Legatia L3SE Speaker Set - 12v Electronics

Where you able to purchase a single speaker for the center speaker or did you have to buy the set and just keep the other as a spare?


About the DSP & Amps:

OK, so I'm guessing waiting for the Audiofrog would be the wisest solution, in the mean time I can purchase the speakers and get them setup. You had mentioned in your OP that the stock speakers wiring was pretty good actually so I won't mess with that.

OK so I would be in a holding pattern waiting for the Audiofrog DSP & Amp, if I were to purchase the speakers first, would it be a good idea or not to replace the stock speakers in place with no additional DSP or Amp?

Does the Alpine system have enough to push them and sound any bit better than the stock system while I wait for the external DSP & Amp to be released?

For the cheap cost of a used JBL MS-8, I could grab one of those for now to tie me over for the next few months until the AudioFrog comes out, would that help with using the speakers in the mean time while waiting on the Audiofrog?

I guess the bottom line is I am looking to get the best DSP & Amp, but as mentioned the Audiofrog is that item, but it won't be released until sometime around Q1 or Q2 of '17.

Until then, what is a cost effective way to get those speakers going this month even if it is not as good of a solution, for example going with the JBL MS-8 for DSP & what lower cost amp that I wouldn't mind reselling or shelving would you recommend?
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 09-19-2016, 10:34 AM
1stJeepGC's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2011 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NYC Area
Posts: 1,549
Thanks: 222
Thanked 186 Times in 163 Posts
Rep Power: 27220
1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2011 Alpine simple make over

Greetings,

You can run the HAT speakers off the Alpine amp, but do remember that they will not come to life because of the preset DSP and the lack of power. I remember this from my install when I could wait to hear the HAT's. So we ran the factory amp for quick demo. On the positive side, you can break the speakers in during your waiting period. This way, when you finish the setup, the will be ready for action and the tuning process is be much easier.

As for the center, good question. I would ask them if they can sell a single one. I was able thru my installer to get a single one.

You could go with the MS-8 if feel it would not be a burden on you. Since it a very low price and get the right solo amps to power everything. You can even check out HAT's amp line as I previous mentioned. In addition, keep mind you have to map out real estate to make sure their is enough room later to fit all the components. Just remember, you have only 8 active outputs to play with. You do need 10 with the sub.

Best for now.
__________________
Laredo X, Trail Rated, QTii, Sele-Terrian, Quadra Lift, Off-Road Adventure Package ii, Nokian Rotiva AT, Tow, AFE CAI, DiabloSport inTune 1000-DCX, Custom Sound System ( HAT speakers, JLAudio , Pioneer , JBL MS-8 & RF 3.sixty.3 -- see the writeup link below for more details)

http://www.jeepgarage.org/f155/2011-...ver-79121.html
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 10-02-2016, 12:33 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: South Florida
Posts: 73
Thanks: 38
Thanked 11 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 228
made_in_murica is on a distinguished road
Re: 2011 Alpine simple make over

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stJeepGC View Post
Greetings,

You can run the HAT speakers off the Alpine amp, but do remember that they will not come to life because of the preset DSP and the lack of power. I remember this from my install when I could wait to hear the HAT's. So we ran the factory amp for quick demo. On the positive side, you can break the speakers in during your waiting period. This way, when you finish the setup, the will be ready for action and the tuning process is be much easier.

As for the center, good question. I would ask them if they can sell a single one. I was able thru my installer to get a single one.

You could go with the MS-8 if feel it would not be a burden on you. Since it a very low price and get the right solo amps to power everything. You can even check out HAT's amp line as I previous mentioned. In addition, keep mind you have to map out real estate to make sure their is enough room later to fit all the components. Just remember, you have only 8 active outputs to play with. You do need 10 with the sub.

Best for now.

OK, so i now have my new JGC in hand, and have been driving it around for a week. I can't stand the Alpine system, it's terrible! The sound is so muddy and muffled it's unreal. I really need a quick fix or I may go insane.

My goal:

Audiofrog DSP & Amp (When it's released) OR Helix V Eight DSP
Set of HAT speakers all around
JBL Stealth 10" sub OR Custom box from Audio Designs: https://store.audiodesignscg.com/pro...subwoofer-box/

Do you think it's worth waiting for the Audiofrog or is the Helix mentioned above equally as good of a product? Is that the best solution for a combo DSP & Amp at this time?

I know I've asked before, but does the 10" JBL really hit hard? As hard as a 12" would hit?

I saw this shop is located in Jacksonville,FL which happens to be a 4 hour drive from me, and I have a good friend up there that I am over due to visit, so it's no sweat for me to go up for a weekend and stop by the shop. That shop custom builds a pretty decent looking box to fit just like the stealth box from JBL does, but they will make either a 10" or 12" version. Now I mostly listen to 80's and 90's rock and light metal but I do like some club and bass heavy songs as well thrown in the mix. So I'm trying to get opinions of those who have the JBL, does it hit hard enough for them, or having it now, would they prefer as 12" sub if it would fit?

Got a recommendation for a good SQ sub to use if I don't go with the JBL stealth box? I want it tight in order to hit the real drum notes in the rock songs, from my limited experience, SPL subs are a bit sloppy and don't hit those notes as cleanly.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 10-02-2016, 06:22 PM
1stJeepGC's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2011 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NYC Area
Posts: 1,549
Thanks: 222
Thanked 186 Times in 163 Posts
Rep Power: 27220
1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2011 Alpine simple make over

Greetings,

How I never went insane for 2 1/2 years living with the Alpine system was a miracle.

If you are still thing about a surround setup, then it might be wise to wait it out for the Audiofrog DSP. It is going to be a least 3 more months to CES 2017 when additional details are released and rough delivery date is established. It could be a good chance that the DSP can have summing device similar to JL Audio. Therefore, you will not need to 3 individual DSP's for that part of the system, just one.

A 12inch sub will get down nice and low. IMHO, the JL Audio 10 inch stealthbox and the HAT L6SE is a perfect match. The link does not give any specifications as to volume of the custom box and that is important for a 12inch sub. IF you go with the 12, you need a quality driver. Many of the cheaper 12's will sometimes give you the results of an 8inch.

Best for now.
__________________
Laredo X, Trail Rated, QTii, Sele-Terrian, Quadra Lift, Off-Road Adventure Package ii, Nokian Rotiva AT, Tow, AFE CAI, DiabloSport inTune 1000-DCX, Custom Sound System ( HAT speakers, JLAudio , Pioneer , JBL MS-8 & RF 3.sixty.3 -- see the writeup link below for more details)

http://www.jeepgarage.org/f155/2011-...ver-79121.html
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 10-03-2016, 01:34 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: South Florida
Posts: 73
Thanks: 38
Thanked 11 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 228
made_in_murica is on a distinguished road
Re: 2011 Alpine simple make over

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stJeepGC View Post
Greetings,

How I never went insane for 2 1/2 years living with the Alpine system was a miracle.

If you are still thing about a surround setup, then it might be wise to wait it out for the Audiofrog DSP. It is going to be a least 3 more months to CES 2017 when additional details are released and rough delivery date is established. It could be a good chance that the DSP can have summing device similar to JL Audio. Therefore, you will not need to 3 individual DSP's for that part of the system, just one.

A 12inch sub will get down nice and low. IMHO, the JL Audio 10 inch stealthbox and the HAT L6SE is a perfect match. The link does not give any specifications as to volume of the custom box and that is important for a 12inch sub. IF you go with the 12, you need a quality driver. Many of the cheaper 12's will sometimes give you the results of an 8inch.

Best for now.
I am glad to know I am not the only one who is driven crazy by the poor sound of this system!

Yes I definitely want to keep the surround sound setup. So I will hold on ordering the HATs to wait on the Audiofrog DSP.

You are correct, the link does not give the volume specs of that box, but the video does explain that it has a maximum of 0.7 cubic inches of volume. I'd love your opinion on this; if I went with that box for a 12" sub, I just happen to have a set of these from a prior install which would work with that air space perfectly.

Pioneer TS-SW3001S4 12-Inch Shallow Subwoofer
Pioneer TS-SW3001S4 Shallow-mount 12" 4-ohm subwoofer at Crutchfield.com

What do you think? Worth it to use now because I have them already for free, or don't waste my time and just buy a new 12"?

I don't mind spending a few hundred on a new sub, just figured I'd ask since I have a set of these already. I never felt that they hit hard before, but previously they were in a ported box that was a little too big.

If not that sub, then I've done a bit of research and was thinking possibly one of these:

JL Audio 13TW5v2-4
JL Audio 13TW5v2-4 Shallow-mount 13.5" 4-ohm subwoofer at Crutchfield.com

* This one requires 0.8 cubic inches of volume, so I would imagine they could adjust the box to work for that little bit of extra room needed.

OR

Alpine SWR-T12
Alpine SWR-T12 Type-R Thin 12" 4-ohm shallow-mount subwoofer at Crutchfield.com
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 10-05-2016, 08:22 AM
1stJeepGC's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2011 3.6L WK2
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NYC Area
Posts: 1,549
Thanks: 222
Thanked 186 Times in 163 Posts
Rep Power: 27220
1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute1stJeepGC has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 2011 Alpine simple make over

Greetings,

Without any question, my first choice would be the JL Audio 13.5. In the right box, this is a solid rocker. I even got a chance to hear a 2 of them in the same MB custom install. With 2 of them in the JGC, would most likely shake the vehicle apart when cracked.

I would give the Pioneer a slight edge over the Alpine, since Pioneer has always been dealing with the shallow mounts for a long time and they have done some serious research on it.

Usually, car audio announcement have major announcement during the upcoming SEMA show, but the last couple of years, everything gets pushed back to CES. I think it worth the wait. A lot new products in integration that was recently announced should be on display, DSP's and amps as well.

When went down to Atlanta, GA for my roundtrip vacation in the JGC from NYC, all my components were in ready to be installed. But, I my installer was backed up and I did not want to rush the install. So, I waited to after the trip. About 6 or 7 hours into to the trip, I shut off the Alpine to recover from the ear bleed effect.

Best for now.
__________________
Laredo X, Trail Rated, QTii, Sele-Terrian, Quadra Lift, Off-Road Adventure Package ii, Nokian Rotiva AT, Tow, AFE CAI, DiabloSport inTune 1000-DCX, Custom Sound System ( HAT speakers, JLAudio , Pioneer , JBL MS-8 & RF 3.sixty.3 -- see the writeup link below for more details)

http://www.jeepgarage.org/f155/2011-...ver-79121.html
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
2011

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WJ Stealthbox with Alpine Type R and Alpine PDX-1.600 bill38jeep Audio, Video, Navigation & Electronic Modifications 7 11-16-2010 06:08 PM
Possably a simple answer? Gn300 Suspension Modifications 1 08-22-2010 11:54 AM
The Things We Make, Make Us mangoe Grand Cherokee - WK2 - 7 08-05-2010 12:16 PM
What do you suggest? Simple subwoofer box & amp to stock MyGig??? White WK Swagga Audio, Video, Navigation & Electronic Modifications 112 01-15-2010 11:21 AM
Simple 2" Budget Boost caa0428 Suspension Modifications 5 12-13-2009 06:29 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 - JeepGarage.Org
The Jeep Grand Cherokee Owners Community

JeepGarage.org is in no way associated with or endorsed by FCA US LLC. Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram, Mopar and SRT are registered trademarks of FCA US LLC.