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  #13  
Old 10-03-2013, 07:20 AM
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Re: Audio build for beginner: Advice needed

You should tune that Bit 10 first. It will take a bit of time but once you get it right you'll feel good about spending the dosh. With the Bit 10 you should be able to keep your head unit.

Keep in mind that in a lot of modern cars the Head Unit has equalization set to the cheap stock speakers. When you install a new amp and speakers, the head unit is still putting out the same signal so it will sound like absolute crap. When you tune that Bit10 it will sum all the inputs, normalise (de-equalise) the signals and should give you a nice flat output to your amps. You can then set your gains on your amps and your speakers should sing. Check out posts by VoyagerX, 1stJeepGC and others. They have a lot of good advice and threads here. Also check out the YouTube series called Amplified where they use Hertz Speakers and Audison Bit10 Processor in a Jeep SRT8.

Also, forgive me if I'm out of line but where did you get your Hertz speakers from? I only ask because there are a lot of Hertz fakes out there especially ebay (where I do most of my shopping). Check out the Hertz website hertzaudiovideo>technical>fake products for more details. I was going to go down the Hertz path myself but am being extra cautious at this point.

What part of Oz do you live? If in Sydney there is a killer shop in Caringbah called FHRX Studios or Lifestyles in North Parramatta that can help you out.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:42 AM
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Re: Audio build for beginner: Advice needed

No problem at all.
I bought HSKs from these guys: Acr-schweinfurt.de The price becomes reasonable after they deduct sales tax (because this is export sale). A friend of mine bought a set of German Maestro from them and was quite happy. Not quite sure if HSKs are legit but I inspected them very carefully before the install and compared with those pictures you are referring to. They looked absolutely genuine. However, as far as the price is concerned, at this moment current prices in Australia on Hertz stuff are quite competitive.
I am from Melbourne. Phatt Audio guys installed the gear for me. I will try to get them to tune Bit Ten. They seemed surprised that I did not like the sound but I frankly finding difficulty finding anything to like there. Anyway, thank you for advice. I will go Bit Ten path now. I still would prefer to keep the stock unit because I would like to save factory look and functionality.
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Old 10-03-2013, 01:10 PM
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You can retain factory look and function with an aftermarket too. Your choices are not limited. I still have full steering wheel controls for my Kenwood, and backup camera.

I'm telling you, you spent this much. Go the extra mile and do it and you won't be diss appointed.
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Old 10-03-2013, 04:26 PM
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Re: Audio build for beginner: Advice needed

Subbie is right though. You can get a killer aftermarket head unit from Pioneer, Kenwood, Clarion or Alpine that will be half the size of the stock HU and not be tuned to you stock speakers.

Edit: plus you can get a double DIN size with SatNav and everything else.

Thanks for the Hertz info. I might hit them up. I still have some time up my sleeve and looking at DLS, CDT, Helix an Hertz but I'll probably find something else too by the time I'm done.

Good luck with the Bit10 tuning. I would've thought they'd do it for you considering they did the install as well.

Edit: I just checked out Phatt Audio. Holy crap they do some good work. I'm going to stop by next time I'm in Melbourne. They wouldn't be cheap though. Did you buy all you stuff online and bring it into them?
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  #17  
Old 10-03-2013, 09:47 PM
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Re: Audio build for beginner: Advice needed

My set up is very similar to yours; I have Hertz Hi Energy comps in the front running active with 75 rms watts each, Hertz Energy coax in the back, Hertz Energy coax in the dash, JL Stealthbox, JL and Alpine amps and the Rockford Fosgate 3Sixty.3.

In general I am very happy with my setup; however its been a month and half already since my install and I am still working on tuning the system.

You have top-notch parts in your vehicle. My suggestion for you, before changing components, is to find a good tuner that helps you in setting up your audition dap right. I think that is the key for you. A good tuner will many times use an RTA to ensure accurate calibration and eq tuning.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 10-05-2013, 05:35 AM
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Re: Audio build for beginner: Advice needed

Thank you for your input guys.

OK. I was back to installers. They re-tuned the DSP and showed me how to do it myself. I spent the whole morning tweaking the thing again to my taste. The system definitely sounds better now (for me). However it is miles away from what I expected.

Firstly, headunit does not have any loudness compensation button. So, when I tried to tune DSP having low volume in mind, the system sounded terribly at high volumes and the other way around.

Secondly, it is virtually impossible to tune DSP so that all albums or types of music sound decently. Especially when it comes to old recordings with MP3 source. All you can do is to find an average which is suitable for most recordings. Built in EQ in HU does not help at all.

In my old car I had 1Din Pioneer HU, fronts Hertz DCX 165 powered by HU and an amp powering 500W sub. Everything cost me a fraction of what I spent on this upgrade but sound quality was 10 times as better as what I have now. HU had 3 loudness settings and parametric equaliser and I was able to change settings without taking eyes off the road. Here I keep on playing with eq when driving and sound varies from decent on one song to absolutely appalling on another.

Now I tend to agree that it is impossible to get anything from factory HU. However, once burnt, twice shy. I will not be spending another $1.5- $2K (HU + accessories + installation) on a new headunit. Total expenses will come to almost $7K. I love music but not to such an extent. Moreover, I am not sure if I will be happy with the result either. So let it stay the way it is. I am moving on
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Old 10-05-2013, 05:43 AM
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Re: Audio build for beginner: Advice needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radknight View Post
Subbie is right though. You can get a killer aftermarket head unit from Pioneer, Kenwood, Clarion or Alpine that will be half the size of the stock HU and not be tuned to you stock speakers.

Edit: plus you can get a double DIN size with SatNav and everything else.

Thanks for the Hertz info. I might hit them up. I still have some time up my sleeve and looking at DLS, CDT, Helix an Hertz but I'll probably find something else too by the time I'm done.

Good luck with the Bit10 tuning. I would've thought they'd do it for you considering they did the install as well.

Edit: I just checked out Phatt Audio. Holy crap they do some good work. I'm going to stop by next time I'm in Melbourne. They wouldn't be cheap though. Did you buy all you stuff online and bring it into them?
Yes, guys did very clean install. Very good work and customer service as well. They are no cheap but definitely worth the money. Most of the stuff I bought online. However, as I said their Hertz prices are very good at the moment so difference is negligible but you get local warranty and a piece of mind knowing that you are buying genuine product.
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Old 10-06-2013, 05:04 PM
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Re: Audio build for beginner: Advice needed

I feel your frustration after having spent $7K, ouch. I'm sure your installers know how to properly adjust the gain on the amplifier (s). There is a proper way and the guesstimate way.

If I am not mistaken, incorrect gain adjustments will make a nice setup sound like garbage because the system will be clipping (will sound bad, a lot of distortion) the speakers at high volume.

You should revisit the amp gain adjustments. Look up the proper way to adjust on Google. Here is one website with useful information.

How to Set Your Gains

I had a similar issue when I installed my setup. The culprit was the Line Out Converter (LOC) (high level to low RCA level). since the amplifiers were already capable of accepting high level inputs I removed the LOC and used the amp crossover adjustments and my problems dissapeared. Before, my system didn't sound good no matter how much I tweaked it.

Good luck!
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Old 10-06-2013, 11:48 PM
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Re: Audio build for beginner: Advice needed

I know you said you went back to get everything re-tuned, but I'm in agreement with all those saying there's a tuning issue here. Regardless of whether or not it's a stock head unit, with that processor and amp driving those speakers, you should still be getting pretty nice sound from that gear.

That being said, like you mentioned, when you're dealing with high end equipment, unless you're listening to non-copied CD's or 192+ bit rate digital audio, great speakers are only going to make the imperfections in your music that much more obvious. Crap recordings are crap recordings no matter what equipment they're going through, but good equipment is just going to make it sound that much worse.
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Old 10-07-2013, 12:52 AM
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Re: Audio build for beginner: Advice needed

Well put. People don't seem to realise that MP3's are worse quality than CD's and of various and questionable quality. To find out how bad they are you can go to iTunes an select Bit Rate and Sample Rate when you right click in the titles columns or if you right click on the song and click the Summary tab where you will also see the Sample Size. High Resolution (that won't play from an iDevice) will be 24 Bit/96 to 192 kHz with a Bit Rate of about 3350 Kbps (that's from my Rush Sectors music). CDs are 16 Bit/44 kHz but iDevices only output 24bit/48 kHz( some say only 16 bit) so you have to use a DAC that bypasses the iDevices internal DAC with something like a Pure I20 or similar. Still. The best way to tune any system is with music you are sure is pure.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:36 AM
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Re: Audio build for beginner: Advice needed

No, I know the difference between CD and Mp3. I was ripping CDs into MP3 and OGG at the end of the 90-s. Used spectrum analyzer to work out better format/bitrate etc. So, I am kinda familiar with quality difference

However, it is pretty hard to find a lot of of music on CDs. What is more, If I decide to buy all music I have in MP3 form on CDs and put them together then I believe I will need a small truck to carry all the stuff. I have got about 1TB of MP3s in my collection.

I have been playing with the new system for three days straight and the results are still very disappointing. Occasionally I can get decent sound on a few tracks but mostly the system lacks lows (which is understandable given sub size) and very highs (I am at a loss why). Mids are way too prominent, especially at high volumes. When I decrease them using Bit Ten the sound becomes terrible at low volumes. There is definitely no clipping (neither amp nor DSP).

Normally I listen quite loud music. I regularly wear headphones for a long time with volume at max without any problem. New build gives me ear fatigue after 5 mins of listening. Right tweeter is frying my ear even when it is not loud at all. It feels like my ears are bleeding.

So far the plan is to cover tweeters with a tissue and wait a month in case they really need breaking in (I do not believe it). If it does not help then I will have no option but to consider replacing either front speakers of the HU. Very nice result for $5K.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:16 AM
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Again, if you bought a HU, you will have a clean signal path to the amp powering the speakers and Sub. Also, The HU processor will equalize just about any input and allow you to tune, add eq, DSP, etc.

I went the same route you did at first but with an Audiocontrol LC7i, but was not pleased. The moment I spring for a Kenwood Excelon HU I have never looked back. Adding cloth will do nothing.

Also, a HU will give you power output options to the speakers to minimize the harshness out of the tweeters since they are mounted so high.

You sir can do what you want to try to get this to work, but it sounds like you won't like it anyways. My last bit if advice, spring for a quality HU with an equalizer and you will be much better off at enjoying it, but hey, don't take my word for it, I've only gone down this route already....
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