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Old 05-18-2014, 03:55 PM
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Audio upgrade in '14 JGC w/ Alpine 9+1

Greetings all,
Just got my 2014 JGC Limited, with the 9+1 speaker Alpine system. While I'm not necessarily an audiophile level listener, I have to say the sounds stinks. I've got two 1 tweeters and a 3.5 center aimed at my face, two 2.5" aimed at the back of my head, and a decent sub, but zero midrange. I have to crank it beyond 20 to get decent range. Even my 10-year old daughter mentioned how bad the sound is. I've looked at numerous articles in this forum going back as far as 2011, and I've looked over wiring diagrams, charts, graphs, etc. I'm trying to determine the best way to integrate my JL Audio XD700/5 and JL Audio ported PowerWedge 10" sub into the '14 JGC and I'm missing some info. Given the quality of the advice here, I thought I'd ask away!

Few notes:
Not really interested in 7.1 surround, happy with traditional F/R/sub.
Keeping the RA4 head unit with nav
Want to keep stock amp on the center and d-pillars
Not sure how to handle stock sub vs my PowerWedge 10

Existing (as-is) system. I cannot determine the specs of the existing system. Does anyone have a resource that IDs the frequency range and wattage for each of the 10 speakers ? Supposedly, I have 506 watts of power so exactly what power is being fed from the amp to each speaker? I found a wiring diagram on wk2jeeps.com that seems to say the amp is only sending amplified power to the center, A-pillars, D-pillars, and the sub, nothing to the F or R doors. That seems odd to me. I'm most interested in how much power is going to the stock sub. What is the freq range being fed to the rear door speakers and 2.5 rear d-pillars?


Is there anywhere to find out the exact crossover & power specs on the HU/amp outputs?


Stock subwoofer: For a start I'd still like to use my PowerWedge 10 from the XD700/5 output. Could I ALSO split the sub signal prior to the LOC and send it the stock sub, using whatever amplification the stock amp gives? I hate to waste a sub that doesn't sound so bad.


Initial plan:
New Focal 165AS w/crossover for front components
New Focal 165AC coaxial for rear doors
New JL Audio CL-SSI Line Output Converter
Center & D-pillars run on stock amp
LOC sums front tweets, front door, & sub in 3-way mode, outputs to 700/5
700/5 outputs 100hz and above to fronts, where 165AS crossovers split frequency to woofer/tweeter
700/5 outputs 100hz and above to rear doors (or maybe bandpass???)
700/5 outputs 100hz and below to PowerWedge 10" sub
Need suggestions on stock sub/enclosure
Planning on dropping in a CleanSweep DSP between LOC & amp when budget allows


I would love any feedback. Thanks!


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Old 05-19-2014, 12:05 AM
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Re: Audio upgrade in '14 JGC w/ Alpine 9+1

Greetings,

Welcome to JeepGarage.org and enjoy your 2014 JGC.

The closet information regarding frequency range is contained in this thread:

Factory Frequency Response

I believe nobody ever looked into the exact wattage of the factory system.


Scenario 1: Since you express very little interest in a surround sound setup and you are going with the traditional F/R/Sub setup, IMHO, keeping the center and rear pillars will not do you any justice in your upgrades. If anything, keeping the center and rear pillar will only interfere with the sound quality of system.

Scenario 2: If you want to make use of the center and rear pillar speakers, than you go with this setup: From the factory dap/amp run the rear door directly into the 700/5 and set up as bandpass filter. This give you the ability to balance the high end signal. The rear pillars running off the the oem is fine, you might still not hear it because the amp is under powered and the speaker it self does not offer any high output. The same with the center channel speaker. Read post # 26 in the above thread link for more about dealing with center. Keep to your plan for the fronts. The bottom line for this scenario is the time delays are still in tacked except for the sub. You have no ability to adjust the delays to your liking and it becomes a 7.0 setup. On the music side, a 7.0 setup is great.

The JL Audio Cleansweep is an excellent piece to get for cleaning up the oem hu output signals and achieving a true 20-20k signal. Make sure you get the XD 700/5v2. I would recommend to go with bandpass for the rear doors. The JL Audio wedge you have is many times better than the oem sub. I would not waste my time on it.

As i have stated so many times in this forum, to correct the factory Alpine 7.1 surround sound system does require money. For the audiophile level, it does require a chunk of change. Trust me, I know.


Best for now.

NOTE: I was able to check the JL Audio website on the 700/5, the band pass filter might not perform the way you expect too.
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Old 05-19-2014, 09:42 AM
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Re: Audio upgrade in '14 JGC w/ Alpine 9+1

Back in the 70's the FTC was very strict on how power was measured and stated on all audio equipment. (Usually say 100 watts per channel at 8 ohms with 0.08% THD total harmonic distortion from 20Hz-20kHz) so it was easy to compare amplifiers on the same basis. Now, it's "anything goes" as manufacturers measure power in a narrower frequency range and at a higher distortion to cheat a lower powered amp into sounding on paper like a higher powered one. One of the reasons a current "500 watt powered amp" doesn't sound as good or loud as a 30 year old 50 watt powered one. I'm sure the Jeep's power rating is "total" power to all channels.
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:44 AM
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Re: Audio upgrade in '14 JGC w/ Alpine 9+1

It's funny I didn't even know I had the Alpine system. I usually look to see exactly what I'm getting, but this is the standard system in the Limited. It also doesn't say Alpine anywhere that I could see (in the car, on the speaker, on the sticker). The only time I noticed a problem with the system is when my son plays rap music. It can't handle the bass. other than that it sounds pretty good to me anyway.
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Old 05-19-2014, 03:44 PM
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Re: Audio upgrade in '14 JGC w/ Alpine 9+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stJeepGC View Post

I believe nobody ever looked into the exact wattage of the factory system.


Scenario 2: If you want to make use of the center and rear pillar speakers, than you go with this setup: From the factory dap/amp run the rear door directly into the 700/5 and set up as bandpass filter. This give you the ability to balance the high end signal. The rear pillars running off the the oem is fine, you might still not hear it because the amp is under powered and the speaker it self does not offer any high output. The same with the center channel speaker. Read post # 26 in the above thread link for more about dealing with center. Keep to your plan for the fronts. The bottom line for this scenario is the time delays are still intact except for the sub. You have no ability to adjust the delays to your liking and it becomes a 7.0 setup. On the music side, a 7.0 setup is great.
Thanks 1stJeepGC! This is very good information. I think I'll try Scenario 2 and at worst, I can always disconnect the center and d-pillar channels if the time delays bother me. I may consider upgrading them to quality 3.5" in the future if I get to the CleanSweep stage and go for true 7.1. Likely not.

Can you confirm this set up will maintain my front/rear fade? I assumed so given running the rears direct to the amp. I'm assuming I need to do some RCA cables on the stock amp's rear speaker-out wires to go into the JL amp. The fronts go into the LOC as gauge wire and come out RCA no matter what.

Well here's hoping my explanation of what I want doesn't have the shop rolling their eyes and scratching their collective heads. Thanks again!
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Old 05-19-2014, 08:01 PM
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Re: Audio upgrade in '14 JGC w/ Alpine 9+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boneflyer View Post
Thanks 1stJeepGC! This is very good information. I think I'll try Scenario 2 and at worst, I can always disconnect the center and d-pillar channels if the time delays bother me. I may consider upgrading them to quality 3.5" in the future if I get to the CleanSweep stage and go for true 7.1. Likely not.

Can you confirm this set up will maintain my front/rear fade? I assumed so given running the rears direct to the amp. I'm assuming I need to do some RCA cables on the stock amp's rear speaker-out wires to go into the JL amp. The fronts go into the LOC as gauge wire and come out RCA no matter what.

Well here's hoping my explanation of what I want doesn't have the shop rolling their eyes and scratching their collective heads. Thanks again!
Greetings,

Your welcome and anytime.

In the traditional system will be loosing the fader when summing the signals and split them into the F/R/Sub setup. Whereas, in scenario # 2 I gave you before, the fader is working since you are hooking the rear door directly from the OEM amp.

The JL Audio Cleansweep method of summing and cleaning up the signal path is more money than other summing methods. But the merit is you will be getting a flat signal to start with just like if change the oem headunit out to an above average headunit. Car audio aftermarket amps and speakers are designed around the premise of a quality clean signal coming in. The problem with some DSP's out their is they do not have enough horsepower in the CPU to do the multitasking that is demanded. The better DSP's you will be paying over 1k. That is way sometimes it is better to have 2 DSPs do the work with out loosing performance.
i
Great line about rolling the eyes.

For many years I have always kept the traditional system in my vehicles either in the 2-way front setup and full rears with the sub or the 3-way front with the rear midrange in-fill and sub. It is just these last few years I got used to and enjoying the surround sound for music in the vehicle. Unfortunately, the system that mommy Chrysler gave us does not due any justice. The concept is right with only tweeters in the front.

Best for now.
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Old 08-26-2016, 03:41 PM
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Audio upgrade in '14 JGC w/ Alpine 9+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stJeepGC View Post
Greetings,



Your welcome and anytime.



In the traditional system will be loosing the fader when summing the signals and split them into the F/R/Sub setup. Whereas, in scenario # 2 I gave you before, the fader is working since you are hooking the rear door directly from the OEM amp.



The JL Audio Cleansweep method of summing and cleaning up the signal path is more money than other summing methods. But the merit is you will be getting a flat signal to start with just like if change the oem headunit out to an above average headunit. Car audio aftermarket amps and speakers are designed around the premise of a quality clean signal coming in. The problem with some DSP's out their is they do not have enough horsepower in the CPU to do the multitasking that is demanded. The better DSP's you will be paying over 1k. That is way sometimes it is better to have 2 DSPs do the work with out loosing performance.

i

Great line about rolling the eyes.



For many years I have always kept the traditional system in my vehicles either in the 2-way front setup and full rears with the sub or the 3-way front with the rear midrange in-fill and sub. It is just these last few years I got used to and enjoying the surround sound for music in the vehicle. Unfortunately, the system that mommy Chrysler gave us does not due any justice. The concept is right with only tweeters in the front.



Best for now.

Bringing this thread back...

I wanted to get your opinion on what I was thinking about doing with my Alpine overhaul. I want to do away with the surround sound and center channel crap and convert the system back to a standard Front/Rear/Sub format. Basically mimic the base 6 speaker system and add a sub.

The center channel, rear surrounds and subwoofer would all be disconnected.

Equipment:
Audio Control Lc8i
JL Audio XD700 (5 channel)
HD-RLC knob (sub volume)
Polk 6.5" Components
Polk 6.5" Coaxials
JL Stealthbox

Inputs on LC8i from factory Alpine high level outs:

Front Tweeters (input 1)
Front Woofers (input 2)
Center channel (input 3)
Rear Speakers (input 4)

*Channels 2&3 can be summed and directed to the main output along with input 1 by moving the internal jumpers on the 8i*

*Channel 4 would essentially just pass that signal straight through*

Main output of the 8i = front channel
Channel 4 of the 8i = rear channel

*The JL amp will still output on the sub channel by selecting 4 channel input*

Will I be missing any frequencies here that would be needed for the subwoofer? Or is having the front and rears from the Alpine amp enough for the JL to give me at least 80hz-100hz at the sub?

Oh and I would be making my own plug and play harness using standard and reverse 12-14 pin harnesses (by Metra) off the stock Alpine harness. This would allow me to disconnect anything aftermarket and go back to the stock system with just a few clicks.

Any help would be much appreciated.


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Old 08-29-2016, 06:59 AM
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Re: Audio upgrade in '14 JGC w/ Alpine 9+1

Greetings,

With 2014+ Uconnect HU, the task of controlling the center channel becomes an extreme money issue. You will be putting money into hi-end DSPs to have the correct surround sound experience.


The best way to sum the channels in order to get the full range signal (so call this the 20-20,000 hz or cycles) is to sum the subwoofer, front door both the mid bass and the hi's. There is no need to retrieve anything from the center channel or the rear speakers.

With these three (3) stereo channels, you get the bandwidth needed to reproduce out of the factory system into your new system. Based on the information present in the thread about factory frequencies (the link is in the 2nd post here in this thread), the sub stops around 55-60 hz and then 6x9 take over from their and so forth.

If have not purchased the LC8i already, I would serious look into either the Jl Audio FIX series or the new technology coming from AudioControl as in the new DM series due to ship shortly.

Best for now.
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Old 08-29-2016, 12:16 PM
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Audio upgrade in '14 JGC w/ Alpine 9+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stJeepGC View Post
Greetings,



With 2014+ Uconnect HU, the task of controlling the center channel becomes an extreme money issue. You will be putting money into hi-end DSPs to have the correct surround sound experience.





The best way to sum the channels in order to get the full range signal (so call this the 20-20,000 hz or cycles) is to sum the subwoofer, front door both the mid bass and the hi's. There is no need to retrieve anything from the center channel or the rear speakers.



With these three (3) stereo channels, you get the bandwidth needed to reproduce out of the factory system into your new system. Based on the information present in the thread about factory frequencies (the link is in the 2nd post here in this thread), the sub stops around 55-60 hz and then 6x9 take over from their and so forth.



If have not purchased the LC8i already, I would serious look into either the Jl Audio FIX series or the new technology coming from AudioControl as in the new DM series due to ship shortly.



Best for now.

Thanks for the reply.

The reason I was adding in the center channel was to pickup the blue tooth phone audio for making calls. The stock alpine amp directs all of this audio to the center channel only Besides I would run the front/rear channels around 100hz HP.

I just want to convert back to a basic F/R/S setup and eliminate the surround sound and center channel speaker all together. The rear surrounds would just get unplugged. I get with the way technology is today people want that surround experience even in their cars, but i'm old school and hate how it sounds in a car.


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Old 08-30-2016, 07:15 AM
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Re: Audio upgrade in '14 JGC w/ Alpine 9+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by antsjeep View Post
Thanks for the reply.

The reason I was adding in the center channel was to pickup the blue tooth phone audio for making calls. The stock alpine amp directs all of this audio to the center channel only Besides I would run the front/rear channels around 100hz HP.

I just want to convert back to a basic F/R/S setup and eliminate the surround sound and center channel speaker all together. The rear surrounds would just get unplugged. I get with the way technology is today people want that surround experience even in their cars, but i'm old school and hate how it sounds in a car.


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Greetings,

I did not realize that the pushed the bluetooth to the center. Which is interesting because I believe they still keep the mic in the rearview mirror, the closet point to feedback.

As you know from my posts here, surround sound is either you love it or hate it. Coming from the old school like you, the only way for me to appreciate it like I heard in the other cars was to great my own instead of this junk.

You should have a very fine system after you finish and keep us posted.


Best for now.
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