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  #1  
Old 07-21-2014, 03:08 PM
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Channel summing for full range signal

I am doing an audio upgrade consisting of:
Audio Control LCQ-1
5-channel amp (cheap, to be replaced later)
Polk MM6501 component speakers for front doors
Polk MM651 coax for rear doors
JL Stealthbox sub

I am looking for the "best" signals to sum for a full range signal, Looks like:
front tweets into LCQ-1 ch 1
front doors (6x9) into LCQ-1 ch 2
sub into LCQ-1 ch 3
I found the front 6x9 and sub, but having some trouble finding the front tweeters. Does this look correct for the front tweets?
Any other opinions would be helpful.

From this thread:
Wk2 Audio Wiring Schematics
I got this:

Front Left Tweeter- The tweeter wires are gray/orange - gray/yellow at the amplifier, white 22 pin plug, pins 20 and 9.

Front Right Tweeter- The tweeter wires are gray/dk green - gray/lt green at the amplifier, white 22 pin plug, pins 19 and 8.

Left front 6x9- The Left front wires are grey/purple grey/yellow. green/gray at the radio (amp?) grey 22 pin plug, pins 21 and 22.

Right front 6x9- The right front wires are dk. green/purple - green/yellow at the radio (amp?) grey 22 pin plug, pins 19 and 20.

Subwoofer- The subwoofer wires are dk green/brown grey/white (1) dk green/white grey/brown (2) gray/yellow at the amplifier, black 16 pin plug, pins 3 and 11, 14 and 6.

Does this look right?
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Old 07-22-2014, 06:47 AM
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Re: Channel summing for full range signal

Greetings,

You are summing the correct speakers.

I am not sure of the colors to the tweeters anymore. I would invest in a cheap toner generator/receiver combo (maybe at your local radio shack) and hookup the receiver directly at the tweeter location wires in the door. Now, with the receiver go back to amp and look for the signal. I used this method a lot tracing down 70V music systems in buildings.

Best for now.
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:19 PM
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Re: Channel summing for full range signal

As a former electronics tech, I think I still have a toner generator/receiver in my old box, good idea!


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stJeepGC View Post
Greetings,

You are summing the correct speakers.

I am not sure of the colors to the tweeters anymore. I would invest in a cheap toner generator/receiver combo (maybe at your local radio shack) and hookup the receiver directly at the tweeter location wires in the door. Now, with the receiver go back to amp and look for the signal. I used this method a lot tracing down 70V music systems in buildings.

Best for now.
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Old 07-22-2014, 05:44 PM
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Re: Channel summing for full range signal

Quote:
Originally Posted by freeswimmingfish View Post
As a former electronics tech, I think I still have a toner generator/receiver in my old box, good idea!
Greetings,

Too many times I was given diagrams that were the original and not the as-builds.

Best for now.
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Old 08-04-2014, 05:45 PM
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Re: Channel summing for full range signal

Quote:
Originally Posted by freeswimmingfish View Post
I am doing an audio upgrade consisting of:
Audio Control LCQ-1
5-channel amp (cheap, to be replaced later)
Polk MM6501 component speakers for front doors
Polk MM651 coax for rear doors
JL Stealthbox sub

I am looking for the "best" signals to sum for a full range signal, Looks like:
front tweets into LCQ-1 ch 1
front doors (6x9) into LCQ-1 ch 2
sub into LCQ-1 ch 3
I found the front 6x9 and sub, but having some trouble finding the front tweeters. Does this look correct for the front tweets?
Any other opinions would be helpful.

From this thread:
Wk2 Audio Wiring Schematics
I got this:

Front Left Tweeter- The tweeter wires are gray/orange - gray/yellow at the amplifier, white 22 pin plug, pins 20 and 9.

Front Right Tweeter- The tweeter wires are gray/dk green - gray/lt green at the amplifier, white 22 pin plug, pins 19 and 8.

Left front 6x9- The Left front wires are grey/purple grey/yellow. green/gray at the radio (amp?) grey 22 pin plug, pins 21 and 22.

Right front 6x9- The right front wires are dk. green/purple - green/yellow at the radio (amp?) grey 22 pin plug, pins 19 and 20.

Subwoofer- The subwoofer wires are dk green/brown grey/white (1) dk green/white grey/brown (2) gray/yellow at the amplifier, black 16 pin plug, pins 3 and 11, 14 and 6.

Does this look right?
Were you able to get everything installed? How'd it go?
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Old 08-04-2014, 05:57 PM
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Re: Channel summing for full range signal

one thing to be wary of is "DSP" on one or more channels .. which can make strange things happen when channels are summed.. so having a way to select which things get summed after all the wiring is done might be useful.

just thinking out loud..

...tom
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Old 08-11-2014, 10:49 AM
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Re: Channel summing for full range signal

Sorry for the delay in this. I wanted to wait till everything was installed, tuned and broken in before I posted again.

After a few delivery issues, everything finally came. I took my time installing to make sure I did the best job I could.

The rear doors were the easiest, factory 6.5 out, cut plug and connect wires into crossover, 6.5 coax in. Yes, the coax have a separate crossover and have separate inputs for the mid woofer and tweeter.
For the front doors, I used a 6x9 to 6.5 adapter plate for the mid woofers. The tweeters required some trimming of the original holes for the cups to fit. I used some small snips for this. As I did in the rear, I cut the plugs off, connected the wires to the separate crossover and then to the mid woofers and tweeters. I used the -3db setting for the tweeters.
The Stealthbox was easy to do. I used a dremel to grind off the welds that held in the subwoofer trim plate. The factory sub came out easy.
The stealthbox was a perfect fit the first time. It looks better than factory if you ask me.

Once I got the amp gains set properly, I used the JL Audio Real Time Spectrum Analyzer app on my Iphone and a Pink Noise track to get the flattest I could on front and rear using the 6 front, 6 back bands of EQ on the AC LCQ-1. I used the JL Audio SPL meter app to balance L-R and F-R so it was best for the driver, but not terrible for other passengers. There are 5 EQ bands for the sub, but I left them centered for now. The AccuBass seems to be doing a great job keeping the bass strong.

SO, once I got everything in and turned it on and tuned, I played a few songs I know very well. Good, clean music that is recorded well. I heard rattles EVERYWHERE! Mostly in the front drivers door. I thought before I invest in dynamat or Fatmat I needed to take the door panels off to investigate. I found several things that could be the cause. I used double stick foam tape between the adapter plate and inner door panel, and under all the woofers. I then used foil tape to hold the plates firm, also to hold down anything that was loose like wires and insulation. All the inner door seals and cards also needed to be tightened about a 1/4 turn as well as the window motors. This solved 90% of the rattles. The other ones are in the sunglasses holder, center storage door, ect. These are not too bad at all, I might be ok as it is.

I then used the "Bass Tracks" from here to set the "bass boost" on the amp.
Now that the sub and mid woofer have "broken in" for about 2 weeks, I find the sound to be very warm, the mid bass is very "punchy" and the sub is strong and powerful, without being over dominate.
I kept the center and rear surround on the factory amp, but they are very easily lost now. I might disconnect them in the future. I ended up using the front doors, rear doors and sub as summing channels. I might try to use the tweeters instead of the rear doors, but I am very happy for now.

I spent a little over $1k and I feel it was money well spent. I am very happy with the sound quality and volume improvement.
Here are the parts I used:
Audio Control LCQ-1
SSL EVO 2900.5 5-channel amp
Polk MM6501 component 6.5" for front doors
Polk MM651 coax 6.5" for rear doors
JL Stealthbox subwoofer
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Old 08-11-2014, 10:53 AM
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Re: Channel summing for full range signal

Greetings,

Glad everything worked out. Enjoy it.

Best for now.
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Old 08-11-2014, 03:36 PM
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Re: Channel summing for full range signal

So far so good.
I'm sure there will be a new HU at some point in the future.
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Old 08-14-2014, 11:19 AM
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Re: Channel summing for full range signal

I was having an issue where, at medium volume on a song with a lot of bass my amp would turn off. It wasnt going into protection, it would power off. The LCQ-1 still had power. It also seemed as if the system was straining at around volume 25 and up, like it had reached its limit.
I rechecked all my connections for speakers and the RCA cables to make sure there wasnt a shorted terminal at the sub, speakers, crossover or amp. All appeared good. I used a DVOM, I checked all speaker impedance, input voltages, remote trigger out voltage. All were as I expected.
Last thing I did was check all the amp and LCQ-1 gains. What I found was, the LCQ-1 gains were set way too low, and the amp gains were way too high. I set the LCQ-1 so the the "maximized" light was just blinking a bit at volume 30, then set the front, rear and sub amp gains till I heard a bit of distortion, then backed it down just a little. With DVOM, checked amp output voltage, getting about 20v on ch 1-4, 40v on ch 5.
I used the JL Audio RTA app on my Iphone to set the EQ for as flat as I could, but with a rise in the lower freq (I like a louder low end). I also used the SPL meter to set the front/rear & left/right so the sweet spot is slightly right of the driver seat.
So far, I've tested with the same tracks and same volume level (20-25) that shut the amp off. Not only does it sound way better, but has not shut off even at higher volume levels!
Hoping this was the issue and hoping this might help someone with similar issues.
Joe
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Old 08-14-2014, 02:37 PM
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Re: Channel summing for full range signal

Greetings,

Does your amp have the auto sense signal to turn on?

Best for now.
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Old 08-14-2014, 03:40 PM
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Re: Channel summing for full range signal

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stJeepGC View Post
Greetings,

Does your amp have the auto sense signal to turn on?

Best for now.
No, this is a cheap but powerful 5 ch amp I am using till I can get a better one.
The LCQ-1 has Auto Sensing called GTO, but I have it defeated since I am using a switched 12v for its power, it has a remote out that I use to trigger the amp. The LCQ-1 never lost power, only the amp.
I tested again at lunch giving a demo to a coworker, no issues!
My ears are ringing LOL
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