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  #13  
Old 02-27-2013, 01:25 AM
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Re: Factory Frequency Response

Yes, it's the same front door woofer response as the original posts, just added to the center graphs of L+R and just L.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:15 AM
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Re: Factory Frequency Response

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Originally Posted by voyagerx View Post
Yes, it's the same front door woofer response as the original posts, just added to the center graphs of L+R and just L.
Greetings,

Thank you, it is interesting were they roll off the center channel in relation to the L+R. For sure with the 3.sixty.3 the front stage can be tailored to our liking.

As of now, my intention is to leave the rear as is coming from the factory system and put the rear pillar on the processor

Best for now.
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Old 02-28-2013, 02:08 AM
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Re: Factory Frequency Response

I got everything hooked up tonight and used the 3Sixty.3 Auto Normalize feature, which provides these charts below. Sorry for the size, the 3Sixty.3 software can't be maximized.

Input channels before Auto Normalize (nothing new here, looks the same as my previous measurements):

3sixty in.PNG


Output channels after normalization.

3sixty out.PNG
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Old 03-21-2013, 04:22 PM
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Re: Factory Frequency Response

Quote:
Originally Posted by voyagerx View Post

Output channels after normalization.

Attachment 20273

Just wanted to give an update on some of my tuning and experimenting. Although my system has been sounding ok, there was some noise in it and a few songs that just didn't sound right to me - some vocals and instruments sounded hollow (can't think of a better way to describe). Using a microphone I have measured the response of the system, and have a huge dip in response around 2.59kHz and a smaller dip in the surrounding frequencies. Looking at the photo above, you can see this same dip. The 3Sixty.3 during its auto-normalization had boosted each of the channels at 2.5kHz with around 15db. This didn't seem to actually add back any of the missing frequency, but did add the noise.

I found this weird that the 3Sixty needed to do this, because there was no obvious dip at 2.6kHz in the initial channels I measured, much less a 15db dip.

I wrote Rockford and confirmed the 3Sixty.3 does not do any time alignment on any of the channels before summing. (The JBL MS-8 is the only one I know that advertises that it corrects time alignment before summing, and then allows time alignment on channels after summing). The factory must have a time delay of around .38 ms more on the tweeter than the woofer and summing these two signals causes phase cancellation around 2.6kHz that also effects the surrounding frequencies. Even with 40db of EQ, you can't add back frequency that isn't there.


So.... ultimately I ended up separating the channels and EQing each one independently since I am running my components active anyways. Using the 3Sixty.3 auto normalize on each of the channels independently has actually created a much flatter frequency response and I no longer hear the vocal issues I was hearing before. I have also eliminated the hiss I was getting from the 15db boot the 3Sixty.3 was trying to add to fix the issue.
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  #17  
Old 04-29-2014, 06:13 PM
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Re: Factory Frequency Response

Quote:
Originally Posted by voyagerx View Post
....
So.... ultimately I ended up separating the channels and EQing each one independently since I am running my components active anyways. Using the 3Sixty.3 auto normalize on each of the channels independently has actually created a much flatter frequency response and I no longer hear the vocal issues I was hearing before. I have also eliminated the hiss I was getting from the 15db boot the 3Sixty.3 was trying to add to fix the issue.
Sorry for resurrecting this thread, but it's really the best thing I've found so far on this setup..

I'm having a similar problem in my '14 JGC w/ RA4. I've provided front door/tweet and sub inputs into the 3sixty.3, and tried summing them all together and auto-normalize... I had a horrible hiss and the audio sounded off similar to what you describe.

I'm curious how to accomplish what you provided in quoted paragraph above..

What I'm trying (literally right now as I type this) is setting front to tweet, rear to midrange and subs to subs, no summing at all, and letting the 3sixty.3 auto-normalize in that config, then going back through and summing them together without running the auto-normalize again.. Is this the right process?

Some quick specs:
* Output of the 3sixty.3 is going to a JL XD700/5..
* Front doors are JL C2-650 components (tweets up top, 6.5" woofer in the kick area of the door)
* Rear doors are JL C2-650X (coaxials). Sub is a JL Stealthbox.

This setup was all driven by an aftermarket head in my 2012.. Since I can't swap out the RA4, I went w/ the 3sixty.3 to provide full range outputs for the amp.

Any and all pointers are greatly appreciated!
LK
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  #18  
Old 04-30-2014, 12:00 AM
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Re: Factory Frequency Response

Greetings,

First and foremost, make sure you are running the latest version of software (ver 1.3.3 dated 7/18/2013) for the 3.sixty.3 and any updated calibration sound treks. I did not go that route with mine since I am going straight out of the pre outs via the JBL MS-8 which is feed by aftermarket HU. I do find the the wizard's to be so-so, therefore review the video instructions on the website.

Rockford Fosgate® - RFTECH Support




Make sure on the channel output setup stage, channel 8 is assigned to the mono subwoofer with channels 5,6 & 7 as not connected. The other tip on both the input and output setup's, I disconnected everything and manual assigned them.

Question: Do you have the Alpine or the standard 6 speaker system?

Did you try lowing the gain from the RA4? Sometimes, factory units run a signal too strong (hot) and it produces access noise. You should have seen this using the OEM setup wizard during the input setup level stage. Sometimes a lower gain from the headunit is better and increase the gain higher at the amp.

My understanding in the latest release, RF corrected a lot of known bugs and the internal summing should work. The auto normalize is the final step in the summing process to create the 2-channel input needed to split the frequencies into the assigned output stages.

In main screen, you can now set the crossover points. The sub to low frequency and the reset of the channel to high frequency. Play with the setting and slopes to find the right one for you. And the amps should be set to full range at all channels since the RF is doing that for you.

Keep us updated.

Best for now.
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  #19  
Old 04-30-2014, 02:48 AM
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Re: Factory Frequency Response

Isn't the problem to do with combining the front door tweeter and mid bass when they are not phase aligned? If the 3Sixty3 doesn't time align them first it's going to struggle to sum them without audible aberration.

Could you tolerate getting your L and R signal from the back doors and doing without fader control?

Cheers,
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  #20  
Old 04-30-2014, 02:58 AM
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Re: Factory Frequency Response

Alternatively, ditch summing and just normalise each signal, re-amplify it and feed directly to each speaker. No passive crossovers... fully active.

You might need to find another two channels of amplification if you want rear door speakers, as the front doors would need four with this arrangement.

Cheers,
Steve
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  #21  
Old 04-30-2014, 06:38 AM
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Re: Factory Frequency Response

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barboots View Post
Isn't the problem to do with combining the front door tweeter and mid bass when they are not phase aligned? If the 3Sixty3 doesn't time align them first it's going to struggle to sum them without audible aberration.

Could you tolerate getting your L and R signal from the back doors and doing without fader control?

Cheers,
Steve
Greetings,

From my understanding from Rockford, the new software should bring to close to flat as possible despite phase alignment, time delay, etc issues. The software is suppose to capture the frequencies and resort to the 20-20k reference mark.

I did find some blogs referring to noise and gain issues on the 3.sixty.3 a couple of months ago. Thus, the reason to set crossover points to see if the issues remain. I had an issue between the 2 DSP's for the subwoofer until I realized that 3.sixty.3 was not processing it correctly. The solution for me was to set as band-pass filter instead of a LF filter.

The JL Audio Cleansweep as a separate stand alone device does indeed clean everything and give a true 20-20k reference mark. On the Alpine H800 DSP, you must use an external device to properly sum before going into the DSP.

Best for now.
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  #22  
Old 04-30-2014, 10:17 AM
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Re: Factory Frequency Response

I do have the Alpine 9 speaker system in my JGC...

I presently have given up fade control as I'm not tying into the rear doors at all. I didn't think they had full range, so they'd still have to be sum'd with something else to get a full range signal.

I could go 100% active for every speaker, but ya.. .I'd need to add gear.. (or change out my 700/5 for the 800/8).

Presently, I have provided both sub channels from the factory amp ( labelled as sub1 and sub2 on most diagrams) to the 3sixty.3 as L/R sub. Figured it's likely mono from the factory amp and shouldn't hurt anything.

I was able to get some decent sound last night, but still a high noise floor by doing the following:
- Sum just the front door mid-range and tweeter for both front a rear door 'full-range' speakers.
- Only use front door mid-range and sub to sum for the sub channel.

The sound Q is pretty good with minimal EQ tweaks.. but again, if I crank the gain on the 3sixty.3 above -8db or so, I get a lot of noise... Even at that level, if the cabin is quiet (e.g. no AC running) I can hear the noise when there's a break in the audio.

One other thing I've noticed... When going through the Auto-normalize / Auto-level set, etc.. during the initial configuration routine, I only have to dial the volume back from max of 38 to 34 to prevent clipping. But, when I get the settings all done, save and unhook the USB.. if I go above 30 or so, I get audio drop out.. All speakers go quiet with a slight pop before/after the silence.. this occurs with the emphasis portions of the songs.. (drum hits, bass hit, etc..) Extremely annoying!

I'm wondering if this is the factory amp shutting down due to difference in impedance of the 3sixty.3 vs factory speakers, or if the 3sixty.3 is doing this out of some protection??

Another weirdness... if I balance all the way to one side or the other, the speakers don't balance properly.. They only go part way in that direction.. it's as if the 3sixty.3 is not keeping the L/R variance 100% separate and is blending it for some reason... I've double/triple checked all the wiring and it's all right.. for the record, I am using the high level inputs on the 3sixty.3. Anyone else experience this?

Re: software... I'm on the latest, and verified the 3sixty.3 is on latest firmware as well. Audio calibration tracks were downloaded from RF and the wav files loaded to a USB stick so there's no decompression anomalies with MP3 at play.

I've got a local audio shop that recommended the 3sixty.3 as the only thing they offer to people with the RA4 units.. that the other options are too much headache and don't provide any more benefit. They've offered to tune my system for $90/hr..

Thanks all so far for your suggestions!
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  #23  
Old 04-30-2014, 06:45 PM
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Re: Factory Frequency Response

Greetings,

Before you spend any money for tuning which is not a bad price per hour, call Rockford and go over the factors with them, including the input setups. All of these DSP's are very particular how everything is being labeled and assigned to channels.

Differently the latest release did not overcome the summing problems. I am wondering if the RF floating point computer processor is being overloaded and can not handle all the algorithms. Many of the upper DSP's, such as the Helix, Arc Audio and Mosconi are using higher bit sets in the chips to perform all the math needed. Via high level input: summing, conversion to 2 channel, matrix mixer to split the signal, time delay, eq, crossover and output stage. For sure, each of these stages has additional subroutines to go with it.

Your question: "I'm wondering if this is the factory amp shutting down due to difference in impedance of the 3sixty.3 vs factory speakers, or if the 3sixty.3 is doing this out of some protection??" This might be a valid point that RF has to address.


So far my experience with the 3.sixty.3 via the low level inputs has been pretty good. As I mentioned to somebody else, the Mosconi hands down beats out the BITone. IMO, the 3.sixty.3 is just as good as the BITone.

Best for now.
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  #24  
Old 05-03-2014, 06:51 AM
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Re: Factory Frequency Response

Maybe you guys can assist...

I'm not a technical guru & don't understand anything from this thread, but on my new Overland with the 8.4AN, I'm noticing I'm only getting sound from the center channel.. I adjusted the equalizer & opened the doors & put my ear up to the door speakers & just got muffled low tones, kinda like fill.

Is this how the system is set up, or should there more be coming thru the door speakers. My system software version is 14.05.3, is there an update possibly, or might something be wrong with the head unit or amp?

Thanks for any help with this..
May just take it to dealer for tech to test if you recommend..

Thanks
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